2020 Archery Elk....fact or fiction

[Special T]

I am a fair weather baseball fan. I enjoy it in the background while BBQing with friends and having a cold one. I played in school and know the game.

I dont not know the stats of the players on each team, their ERA, Batting avg, Sluggers average, who sprained an ankle or whatever. To me this implies (inside baseball)

Most sportsmen fall into the first category Very few in the second "inside baseball" category.

It might all be public info, but you have to find it, read it, digest it and try and figure out the relationships.  Its a full time job that only a very few dedicated folks have done and let us ride their coat tails.  It is a hobby all by itself for a hunter with a couple of pursuits, job and family.

It is why I always pound Get involved with what ever sportsmen ORG you belong to already, or join one. There is NO shortage of work to be done, and there are never enough volunteers. I can tell you Ive been trying to read up as much as I can and the more I learn the more ignorant I feel.

Silver Arrow Bowmen hasn't lobbied for a Commissioner

WWA likely has but waterfowl is so entangled with fishing I cant wrap my head around it. I gave up fishing years ago. I help my local chapter a little and go to their meetings, the speakers are great and educational.

[Tbar]

Fair enough. I just think even if you are not an insider or have all of the stats and bio it pays to get involved. If there is an appointee that warrants support, it can literally be done in the amount of time it took me to write this post. Do not put all of your faith in sportsman organizations they are very political themselves at times.

[Special T]

Ive been to a couple of commissioners meetings. At each one i have heard a commissioner ask the question. What specific solution would you propose to resolve XYZ problem? What this tells me is that several of them are interested in thoughtful suggestions, because they may not have heard or though about it all. They hear plenty of the WDFW sucks with no solutions.

Mind you I think its horrible that we need to explain and or do the job of some department employees. Commissioners are volunteers (They get travel and per diem type stuff) just like you or me. Many seem to be a pretty thoughtful and dedicated for the sportsmens cause.

[Nwgunner]

So you do realize that the only one of those things wdfw can do is the bear, right?  I mean maybe they could legally go against the state wolf plan, but theyd get the living *censored* sued out of them.  The hound hunting and tribal stuff is completely out of their control.  Youre throwing a tantrum about stuff that wdfw cant do anything about.

And then you flat out admit that you dont even participate in the public input process.  Maybe you shouldnt be bitching then.    You say the reason you dont participate is because they dont care, but lets be honest, you had no idea this was even happening.  People say wdfw doesnt listen, its a waste of time to comment..  that kind of defeatist attitude is self fulfilling prophesy.  They dont listen to us because we dont have much of a voice, because nobody ever speaks up.  So very few hunters ever comment on anything that our voice is small and easily ignored.  If we wont step up and tell them what we want, were certainly not going to get it.  If you refuse to "waste your time" participating in or even paying attention to the rule making, you have no right to complain.
[/quote]

So true.  If you read this forum regularly these issues and proposals are brought up regularly.  Bango does all the time in regards to predators. Get on WDFW's mailing list, check their website, get informed and speak up.  Complaining after decisions are made is a waste of time, especially if you did not fight for it when you could.
Comment, join an advisory group, or email constituents. It doesn't matter just do something.

[dreamingbig]

When the bull tags for an area are down over 90%, it's hard to make the case we should be shooting up the cows.

I am not supporting any of these decisions until they produce a valid survey or a presentation as to why they think the herd has declined so much.  I ran a game camera last year and saw just as many animals as I usually do.




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[Bango skank]

I know squat about this herd one way or the other, but having one camera up in an area really doesnt give you a good comprehensive view of the state of the herd.

[dreamingbig]

I know squat about this herd one way or the other, but having one camera up in an area really doesnt give you a good comprehensive view of the state of the herd.

I was too lazy to write that I hunted in every year since 2002.  Ran cameras for about half those years.

Can you point me to the survey that they did this year?


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[Bango skank]

No, i cant.  And im not defending them or saying theyre on the ball.  Just responding to

 "i ran a game camera last year and saw just as many animals as i usually do" 

That just doesnt hold much water.  If it did, all wdfw would have to do is set up 1 camera in each elk area to assess the herd.  I think we can all agree that we wouldnt consider that anywhere close to acceptable if that was how they got their data.

[dreamingbig]

No, i cant.  And im not defending them or saying theyre on the ball.  Just responding to

 "i ran a game camera last year and saw just as many animals as i usually do" 

That just doesnt hold much water.  If it did, all wdfw would have to do is set up 1 camera in each elk area to assess the herd.  I think we can all agree that we wouldnt consider that anywhere close to acceptable if that was how they got their data.

It is a better data point than they can produce!  But in all seriousness, based on the sign I saw up their in November the rut was a very normal year.  The department needs to get in the woods!


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[Thefishguy77]

But the herd numbers aren't down...and I would put money on that.

And archery guys kill very few cow's comparatively.  Success is still single digits. And if you see the numbers of tags they are going to offer it's still enough tags to have similar harvest numbers..

Nailed It!!!   

$6.50 x 5000 people....conservatively is $32,500.  That seems like a sizeable amount of money to me.  Especially when paired with all the other draws that offer almost no chance given our screwed up point system.  To top it all off.....they take away any opportunity for youth.  Tell me our WDFW gives two craps about our hunting heritage. 

You want to see the numbers explode in that unit....bring back hound hunting cats, kill the wolves, stop the natives from shooting all the big bulls and open up a spring bear season.  Butttttt wait, these are very unpopular, taboo, things to discuss.  This is the reason I don't respond to their open comments.....because they don't give a SHATTTT about the real reasons numbers are down......if they even are.

This winter wasn’t as bad but stop the natives from shooting up the cows during winter. The end of the GPNF sees that all the time, like hundreds. But I guess since its tribal its good for the heard’s to slaughter the pregnant cows. 

This states ability to manage game is as bad as their ability to manage money. $35,000 is in draw money may seem small but think about how else they can and probably will apply it once they realize people will pay it.
Ideas for new draws
Second dear
Doe tags
Buck tags
Access keys for state/federal land
Parking areas
Days to hunt alone in areas
2 pole endorsement on fishing
Columbia river endorsement

When the state realizes its free money they will continue on course. Look how many different parking passes you now have to buy just to use all the state and federal lands in Washington.  Its always been about the money for Washington for at least the last 30 years...


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[Thefishguy77]

Colockum and Yakima units archery hunters can still hunt, just not for cows. 

   

You mean go camping while finding the needle in a haystack and then trying to get within 50 yards of it.....Completely reasonable response.  Then you have to make sure it is a true spike before shooting (colockum)...lets see what those harvest stats produce.  0.002% success rate for non cow draw hunters.  For the lucky ones that draw the cow tags you are still likely to see 10-12% success rates.   

Now....who wants to post that more elk are killed and not recovered by archery guys....because rifle guys never shoot and don't find theirs.  This is part to the problem, hunters are divided and hunters think WDFW know are making these decisions for the betterment of the heard.....when in reality they refuse to protect the heard from predators in an attempt to please the environmentalists.  Facts don't lie.....kill predators and our numbers will come back to sustainable amounts.  FACT

Hunters are very divided and its sad. I have been a rifle hunter the first 30 years of my life and recently started shooting a bow. Was going to do deer and elk this year with archery but due to a shoulder injury I didn’t feel I would be up for pitting a good shot on an animal. Figured better to keep practicing and insure a ethical kill no matter the platform.  Well some of the archery guys that were helping me no are a lot less friendly because I chose to make what I felt the best decision was for myself and the animals.  Dont get me wrong I am not talking about banter back and forth, that’s enjoyable. Its the elitist on every side that help stereotype us normal folks.

Its similar with the whole 2nd amendment. Many rifle hunter say that the 2nd doesn’t apply to semiautomatics because you don’t need that for hunting.

We actually need to sit down and have small group conversations with each other to find common ground, and avoid the huge type gatherings like the public/state meeting are. To much gets missed or lost in those big gatherings. I feel if we are willing to talk amongst fellow hunters we would see most all of us want better habitat for all and the ability to pass our hunting traditions on to our kids. 


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[Thefishguy77]

Colockum and Yakima units archery hunters can still hunt, just not for cows. 

Spike ?

Yes. Same as it's been for muzzleloader and modern firearm seasons for many years now. It does suck, I agree. The other option would be no general season at all.

Completely different......If I could shoot 200 yards with my bow, I almost be OK with a moratorium on cows....though this still does not fix the underlying problem.

No it's not different. When populations are down, harvest needs to be decreased or eliminated, especially for cows. This should include those who choose to hunt with a bow. The WDFW is finally doing the right thing, in my opinion. Other than if it were me I'd also shut down the spike only general season.

I think that many of us over here that spend a lot of time in the woods know that numbers aren't down. With that said, I do think the only way to get it back to where all weapon groups can have "their piece of the pie" is to knock down the predator numbers. I won't mention doing anything about native harvest because we all know nothing can be done there. 

:beer:


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[Thefishguy77]

Good example is going on right now here in the Forks area where we as sportsmen are completely shut down from all hunting and recreational fishing. Natives have their nets in the rivers and doing as they please killing springers and native steelhead while we tell our kids sorry the boat has to sit in the driveway until the government says we can go fishing.. If this trickles into fall it will be the same story but by then most of us will have had enough and maybe these issues will come to a head because many of us will be going hunting... I heard fish and game was out in their boat patrolling the water in Sekiu and I have seen more game wardens driving thru Forks the last three weeks than ever to be sure we are staying home but no control over natives...

The Natives have a black eye and there is no question. Many of the tribes have cleaned up their act as well. There are definitely some problem ones for sure. Yakima does have a reputation for being a problem tribe when it comes abuse of game harvesting. A all tribes need at a minimum to accurately report all game harvesting so we as fellow sportsman can ensure all of us have the ability to pass on hunting to the next generation.

My family has property on hood canal and when the tribes decided to claim their 50% of shellfish from our private tidelands for the first time in over 70 years, because tradition...
 Well the tribe that made the claim had a reputation as well and we brought our concerns to the state/national tribal council. They gave the tribe benefit of the doubt for the first time, fair enough, and they raped the beach. The council came out and investigated and said they would work on that. To their credit after we paid to reseed out beach 5 years later they decide to do it again. This time we were notified by the council that this tribe was going to be harvesting again. And to help make sure it goes as it should they would provide direct oversight. They did that with tribal police from different tribes. The harvesting went well. The took probably just under their 50% this time and reseeded the beach when done.  Most of the tribe are trying to remove that black eye. 

The State/Federal government is to blame 90% for our fish & game issues.  Yes the tribe got really bad with fishing around the time of the Boldt decision and it was a noticeable drop in fish for sportsman. Then later the state in all their wisdom decided we should start closing down hatcheries with no regard to the proper procedures to slow them down or shut them down.  Well guess what?  Many of those hatcheries the state had abandoned got renovate and turned on by the tribes.  Sea lions that live solely in rivers? The state and feds dont do crap and the sea lions sit and eat salmon at damns. The tribes are rumored to be “fixing” the problem on tribal land. Thats good for all of us. 

You will notice a consistent factor in our fish & game management problems. Its government. Often thinking money is the only import factor.  When we got rid of fish and game and it changed to fish and wildlife it became about the state making a zoo vs maintain great hunting habitat.

Only if we all unite as sportsman, tribal and non tribal can we ever make any needed change. Otherwise the state will continue to do what government does waste, lose and abuse. 


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