Spikes taken with Quality permit

[Tbar]

 
I agree. I would even say it was a good question as to " who does that" and an even better answer by Jrebel. I appreciate the willingness to share and enjoyed the read.  I  have been on many hunts where targeted success was to be defined in inches. Many of those hunts morphed into so much more than antlers.  Like lifelong friendships and in some unfortunate cases legacies. I do get the questions bobcat was asking and appreciate both.  There are some severely flawed metrics in the database and this is one.  It's one used a little too often and in too many cases to truly understand harvest trends at a glance.  That glance is what many rely on to"spend" a lifetime of accrued points. 

[hunter399]

Back in the good ol days .
Alot of people never reported ,it better now then it ever was.
Some people would rather pay 10 dollars then report,why.
Cause if you report a lot of people don't want permit numbers lowered.
Basically is WDFW knows what the real harvest numbers  changes will come.
Alot this boils down to WDFW using "science" to set regulation.If you can call looking at skewed harvest reports science.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Mistake?    You must have taken my post the wrong way. There was no mistake, and I won't apologize for looking at the harvest report and wondering how a person ends up shooting a spike on special permit hunts that are known for big mule deer. I thought it turned out being a great thread. I enjoyed reading the stories and all the comments. Only thing was not many people addressed my other comment about how the harvest report shows 8 hunters out of 15 permits for the Entiat rifle hunt, and a 100% success rate. Was it really a 100% success rate? Or could it have been a 57% success rate? 9 of the 15 hunters submitted reports, so apparently 1 person reported that he or she did not hunt. So assuming everyone else hunted, that's 8 bucks killed out of 14 hunters, for a 57% success rate. That would also be assuming that the 6 who didn't submit a report, did not kill a deer. But who knows. That's why I asked the question in my original post, why can't the WDFW call hunters in cases like this and get more complete data?

Bobcat, I just looked at the report and think I figured it out. You are correct, 9 people reported and 8 of them said they hunted. All 8 of them got deer. So of the 8 who hunted, the success rate was 100%.  The success rate isn't how many animals were taken per how many tags were issued. It's how many animals were taken by the actual hunters who hunted.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

The harvest rate question is easy.
They had 8 reports back one of which did not hunt. So out of 7 reported hunters, 7 bucks were killed... 100% success
They cant add the nonreported as they are just that. No way to know if they hunted or not, or if they killed or not.

That is our point. Get the non-reporters to report to produce a valid success ratio. The question is why they are not doing it? In your example you are throwing out some of the data that would make the report on success ratio valid. Instead it is a bunch of junk science without all permits drawn reporting. It is an easy fix so why is it not being done? To skew the success ratio upwards?

In Alaska, if you don't report on special hunts, you aren't allowed to apply for special hunts the next year. and you can be cited.

Here is from their regulations

 • All permit holders must complete the permit report,    including those who did not hunt, those who were unsuccessful,    and those who were successful. 

• You must complete and return the permit report to ADF&G within the time period specified on the permit.

• If you fail to report, you will be ineligible for any permits the  following regulatory year, and you may be cited.

[sawyer]

New deer hunter here, currently trying to interpret all the deer hunting regs for this coming fall. Is a spike considered a buck, in a "any buck" GMU ?

[huntnfmly]

New deer hunter here, currently trying to interpret all the deer hunting regs for this coming fall. Is a spike considered a buck, in a "any buck" GMU ?

Welcome to the site and yes it is a buck

[sawyer]

New deer hunter here, currently trying to interpret all the deer hunting regs for this coming fall. Is a spike considered a buck, in a "any buck" GMU ?

Welcome to the site and yes it is a buck

Thank you for the welcome and the information.

[Ghost Hunter]

The harvest rate question is easy.
They had 8 reports back one of which did not hunt. So out of 7 reported hunters, 7 bucks were killed... 100% success
They cant add the nonreported as they are just that. No way to know if they hunted or not, or if they killed or not.

That is our point. Get the non-reporters to report to produce a valid success ratio. The question is why they are not doing it? In your example you are throwing out some of the data that would make the report on success ratio valid. Instead it is a bunch of junk science without all permits drawn reporting. It is an easy fix so why is it not being done? To skew the success ratio upwards?

In Alaska, if you don't report on special hunts, you aren't allowed to apply for special hunts the next year. and you can be cited.

Here is from their regulations

 • All permit holders must complete the permit report,    including those who did not hunt, those who were unsuccessful,    and those who were successful. 

• You must complete and return the permit report to ADF&G within the time period specified on the permit.

• If you fail to report, you will be ineligible for any permits the  following regulatory year, and you may be cited.

Simple.  Just add deer, elk, bear, etc. to the bottom of the fish reports that are required to be returned.  I've sent enough of those in with nothing on them. 

[bracer40]

I'll speak up....I am the one in the Entiat that shot spike zilla!!     

For inquiring minds, I will share the story.  I drew the tag with 6 points.  I had the entire season off.....until I switched jobs at the start of September.  Not having any vacation, I managed to trade a few days and ended up with 6 full days of hunting.  I changed my mentality with only having six days and still wanting to make it a quality experience.  I took my son out of school to spend the entire hunt with me.  I had my hunting buddy and a few random friends stop in to enjoy camp life with the shortened days of hunting.  I set up my new wall tent and figured we would make the best out of a shorter season than I would have wanted.  We spotted quite a few very nice bucks, some that were out of stalking range and others that I just blew stocks on.....that is part of archery hunting.  I passed up shots daily on 3 points....some of them very nice 3 points.  My hunting buddy said I would regret it....but I knew I wouldn't.  I would rather shoot a spike on the last day than shoot a 3 point on day 2-3 or 4.  I blew a stock on a huge 4x4 that I got to within 30 yards of.  I had multiple blown stocks on 160+ bucks (3 or 4).  We saw tons of deer, had a ton of fun and the last evening hunt, I decided to shoot a spike or 2 pt to fill the freezer.  My son was by my side and got to help drag it out, gut it, skin it and ultimately be part of the entire 6 day hunt.  Hands down one of the best hunts I have ever had. 

Sure, do I wish I had shot one of the big boys.....OBVIOUSLY YES!!  Do I regret filling the freezer with spike zilla....NO.  I purposely didn't do a write up on here because people are cruel and I didn't want my son reading it.  To him this spike had just as much bone as a 190 class muley.  I personally don't care what people say about me, but I find myself protecting my kids from people that think quality means antlers.  I teach my kids that quality was 6 days in the field with my son and best friend (hunting buddy). 

Here are pics of what Quality means to me!!!  Bobcat, as a moderator your question of "who does that?" Is mildly insulting.  Of all people .... showing a little restraint and promoting our sport as something more that bone=quality.......

@jrebel. This is the best thing I’ve read on HuntWA since this Covid situation has turned so many into a bunch of whiners! I love the pics w your son! You’ve given him treasured memories for his lifetime!

[cb1989]

Back in the good ol days .
Alot of people never reported ,it better now then it ever was.
Some people would rather pay 10 dollars then report,why.
Cause if you report a lot of people don't want permit numbers lowered.
Basically is WDFW knows what the real harvest numbers  changes will come.
Alot this boils down to WDFW using "science" to set regulation.If you can call looking at skewed harvest reports science.

and then the same guys who dont report accurately complain about the WDFW not managing with good data. Bit of a catch 22 there. Lot of people dont understand that they use harvest data not just to set quotas but also as a key data point to extrapolate game populations so reporting more harvest isnt necessarily going to reduce tags, on the contrary reduced harvest might lead to reduced tags. But I doubt anybody who thinks its a good idea to turn in fraudulent harvest reports is really thinking that far into it.

[kentrek]

I'll speak up....I am the one in the Entiat that shot spike zilla!!     

For inquiring minds, I will share the story.  I drew the tag with 6 points.  I had the entire season off.....until I switched jobs at the start of September.  Not having any vacation, I managed to trade a few days and ended up with 6 full days of hunting.  I changed my mentality with only having six days and still wanting to make it a quality experience.  I took my son out of school to spend the entire hunt with me.  I had my hunting buddy and a few random friends stop in to enjoy camp life with the shortened days of hunting.  I set up my new wall tent and figured we would make the best out of a shorter season than I would have wanted.  We spotted quite a few very nice bucks, some that were out of stalking range and others that I just blew stocks on.....that is part of archery hunting.  I passed up shots daily on 3 points....some of them very nice 3 points.  My hunting buddy said I would regret it....but I knew I wouldn't.  I would rather shoot a spike on the last day than shoot a 3 point on day 2-3 or 4.  I blew a stock on a huge 4x4 that I got to within 30 yards of.  I had multiple blown stocks on 160+ bucks (3 or 4).  We saw tons of deer, had a ton of fun and the last evening hunt, I decided to shoot a spike or 2 pt to fill the freezer.  My son was by my side and got to help drag it out, gut it, skin it and ultimately be part of the entire 6 day hunt.  Hands down one of the best hunts I have ever had. 

Sure, do I wish I had shot one of the big boys.....OBVIOUSLY YES!!  Do I regret filling the freezer with spike zilla....NO.  I purposely didn't do a write up on here because people are cruel and I didn't want my son reading it.  To him this spike had just as much bone as a 190 class muley.  I personally don't care what people say about me, but I find myself protecting my kids from people that think quality means antlers.  I teach my kids that quality was 6 days in the field with my son and best friend (hunting buddy). 

Here are pics of what Quality means to me!!!  Bobcat, as a moderator your question of "who does that?" Is mildly insulting.  Of all people .... showing a little restraint and promoting our sport as something more that bone=quality.......

@jrebel. This is the best thing I’ve read on HuntWA since this Covid situation has turned so many into a bunch of whiners! I love the pics w your son! You’ve given him treasured memories for his lifetime!

 

Enjoyed that story

[grade-creek-rd]

Not to keep pounding on the same aspect as JRebel but in 2008 I drew the Swakane permit. With high hopes of killing a big buck, I took my then 5 year old son on the hunt. The first day was just him and me, and we passed on a nice 3x3 (about 24" wide) as I knew the area had some nice bucks (it was hot weather that year...no migration...which sucked). The next two days my hunting partner joined me with his daughters and on the last day he and my dad joined me, along with my 5 year old son who was with me everyday...my son said to me on that morning that I "promised" him a set of antlers that he could hang in his room. I told him that the very next buck we saw I would go after it. We turned the corner and there was a 4 pt, broke off on one side, so a 4x1...small at that (2 1/2 year old deer that had good genetics). I kept my promise, and shot that deer. It was a trophy to my son, and a great memory, and yes it stung me a bit as we field dressed that buck and I looked across the draw to see the same 3x3 that I passed on day 1.

In Washington the coveted draw is for a "Quality" permit (either deer or elk...so the excuse that shooting spike bull is OK but not a spike muley is hypocritical) and if you look at WDFW's definition of the hunt it is defined as a "Quality experience (due to less hunters afield)" not a "big buck/bull" permit. I wouldn't change how that hunt turned out, because my dad, son, and hunting partner (who I've known since the 2nd grade) was with me...that is a "quality" hunt.

Grade

[huntnnw]

the word "quality" with these tags means much more than inches of antlers its a quality experience in general and if you feel like you didn't kill a giant buck or bull that it was a bad hunt then you are hunting for the wrong reasons. Its getting time to be in a specific unit usually in the rut for bulls or bucks, hunting with almost no pressure and getting to chase branched bulls where you dont ever get to. I have had 4 quality tags in this state and regardless of the outcomes of each hunt have been absolutely fantastic hunts and really couldn't ask for more out of them. Every hunt offered opportunity at big bulls or bucks.

[huntnnw]

Mistake?  You must have taken my post the wrong way. There was no mistake, and I won't apologize for looking at the harvest report and wondering how a person ends up shooting a spike on special permit hunts that are known for big mule deer. I thought it it turned out being a great thread. I enjoyed reading the stories and all the comments. Only thing was not many people addressed my other comment about how the harvest report shows 8 hunters out of 15 permits for the Entiat rifle hunt, and a 100% success rate. Was it really a 100% success rate? Or could it have been a 57% success rate? 9 of the 15 hunters submitted reports, so apparently 1 person reported that he or she did not hunt. So assuming everyone else hunted, that's 8 bucks killed out of 14 hunters, for a 57% success rate. That would also be assuming that the 6 who didn't submit a report, did not kill a deer. But who knows. That's why I asked the question in my original post, why can't the WDFW call hunters in cases like this and get more complete data?

Some people like myself apply for special hunts because there is less pressure and therefore have a better opportunity at filling the freezer. Maybe the dates work better for their schedule. Maybe they had plans for a longer season that got cut short. Maybe they’re not interested in very old deer in general. It’s by no means required to take an old deer with a quality hunt tag.

Also if you look at the special hunts page of the regs nowhere does it mention mature deer.

If you drew the tag, you would use your experience to get the biggest deer you could find, good for you. That’s quality to you. To others it could mean a multitude of things and I wouldn’t waste my time wondering why some hunters take smaller deer than others.

 Nobody is planning their season around a quality buck or bull tag in this state! If its about meat the doe and cow tags should be your emphasis. Why on earth would you spend $14.75 a year and accumultate points for years to maybe draw 1 or 2 quality tags in your life.

[Mfowl]

I took a spike bull on a quality ML tag. However I was very much a novice elk hunter. I put my effort in to the hunt but due to hot weather, smoke from a fire in the 328 and very low elk activity I did not hesitate to pull the trigger when that spike walked in to my lap. It was my first elk. In retrospect, I should have changed locations days earlier but I had no way of knowing that then. To each their own!