New gray wolf pack discovered near valley, WDFW reports

[wolfbait]

New gray wolf pack discovered near valley, WDFW reports

https://methowvalleynews.com/2020/04/29/new-gray-wolf-pack-discovered-near-valley-wdfw-reports/

[Wazntme]

Well that’s just lovely news....

[nwwanderer]

And she appears to be packing a litter of pups, lovely

[huntnnw]

just what that herd needed

[Skyvalhunter]

Well this doesn't surprise me. The pack numbers keep increasing past the quota to delist (15 breeding pairs) only because they are not dispersed enough. While we watch the deer and elk population continue to dwindle!! 

[Taco280AI]

Changing the goalpost, sounds familiar.

[MADMAX]

you know what to do, big damm coyote

[Cougartail]

According to Sofia Ressler lethal control isn't effective?  Funny how people who never have done any predator control know so much. She must have got that from some liberal pie eating college education as coyotes won't even come to my bait pile at the house anymore.

Night vision has a deterrent effect..

[buckfvr]

Lethal control not being effective, then where/how did they go in the 1930s ?  24/7/365

[wolfbait]

Well this doesn't surprise me. The pack numbers keep increasing past the quota to delist (15 breeding pairs) only because they are not dispersed enough. While we watch the deer and elk population continue to dwindle!! 

The confirmation of this pack like the Loup pack is a joke, these wolves have been there for several years, I wonder when they will confirm the wolves in McFarland cr, or the wolves that travel the south summit, Benson Cr, how about the wolves up 25 Mile Cr and other areas of known wolf packs over the years?

The USFWS played the same game, always behind in wolf pack confirmations, and then by the time they confirmed known wolf packs there were several
 times as many wolves.

In 2008 when WDFW were forced to confirm a wolf pack, there were several other packs in the Methow drainage and Okanogan, but for years WDFW blame every wolf sightings in the Okanogan to be one of the Lookout pack wolves.


Wolf Numbers Underestimated

There are so many variables involved in attempting to estimate the total number of wolves in a state that any such estimate is prone to large errors even with the best information available. But when the existence of every wolf that has not been part of a “collared” pack is ignored, any such estimate is suspect.

For example, local residents reported several wolf packs in Boise County yet FWS had documented only two. When the Team finally documented the existence of three more packs there were 2-1/2 times as many wolf packs as had been recorded and a similar increase in the number of breeding pairs – indicated both by pups and by yearlings that were born in the prior year and survived.

Although FWS goes back and adjusts the number of breeding pairs for the prior year when this evidence is documented, this system always results in initially underestimating both total wolves and breeding pairs. Recovery goals in all three states were met at least 2-3 years before then current FWS estimates said they were, yet the actual number of breeding pairs was not admitted and recorded until after the fact.
Read More@


https://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%2026%20January%202008%20full%20report.pdf



In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only.  s:  http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml

[Taco280AI]

Big coyotes

[Bango skank]

Lethal control not being effective, then where/how did they go in the 1930s ?  24/7/365

 

“The science clearly shows that killing wolves isn’t an effective way to prevent future conflicts,” said Sophia Ressler


 

Id like to ask her how many wolf depredations there were in wa between 1930 and 1990 

[HillHound]

No kidding. Sounds like Sophia needs a load another bowl. She must be smoking crack if she really believes that.

[jpharcher]

A couple of years ago a few old timers I know that hunt lower end of Lewis River tried to give trail cam pics of collared "dogs" throughout they area and WDFW was not interested in looking at them and told them it was probably just Coyotes.....GAME ON

[bigmacc]

Another nail in the coffin of a once historic mule deer herd, it won't be long before the valley will be draw only for deer hunting, between exploding numbers of cougar, bear and wolf this herd has been decimated, its been reduced by over 10-15,000 head over the last 25 or so years. IMHO this herd is at the brink, less and less deer seen every single year, this last winter scouting trip was the worst numbers we've ever counted, some traditional migration routes were all but null and void of deer and the trend has been less and less over the last decade and I have no doubt that next winters counts will be even worse, just a shame.

[boneaddict]

There has been more packs in the Methow than these three for years.  I don’t even know how far back.     I gave up keeping tabs there were so many wolves.   It’s absolute hogwash what they spew. Propaganda hogwash.   It’s perfect for many of the people living in the valley now with their pink P hats.   I bet you are almost sick to your stomach Todd every time you go get a gallon of milk.

[ribka]

New gray wolf pack discovered near valley, WDFW reports

https://methowvalleynews.com/2020/04/29/new-gray-wolf-pack-discovered-near-valley-wdfw-reports/

I remember when Chase Gunnell (Mitch Friedman's little puppet)   from Conservation NW used to come on here and state in his postings what a wonderful thing the growing wolf packs were for the mule deer and elk herds and moose Washington. What happened to Chase and Conservation NW? Peddling their lies elsewhere like on Northwest sportsmen?



I see now the greedy eco terrorist Mitch Friedman is pimping for Covid virus  stimulus money trying to take it away for millions of out of work Americans.   I guess his organization already milked out the wolf recovery money. What a scammer.

https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/seven-of-washingtons-u-s-representatives-sign-letter-supporting-restoration-jobs/

[Ridgeratt]

New gray wolf pack discovered near valley, WDFW reports

https://methowvalleynews.com/2020/04/29/new-gray-wolf-pack-discovered-near-valley-wdfw-reports/

I remember when Chase Gunnell (Mitch Friedman's little puppet)   from Conservation NW used to come on here and state in his postings what a wonderful thing the growing wolf packs were for the mule deer and elk herds and moose Washington. What happened to Chase and Conservation NW? Peddling their lies elsewhere like on Northwest sportsmen?



I see now the greedy eco terrorist Mitch Friedman is pimping for Covid virus  stimulus money trying to take it away for millions of out of work Americans.   I guess his organization already milked out the wolf recovery money. What a scammer.

https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/seven-of-washingtons-u-s-representatives-sign-letter-supporting-restoration-jobs/

Since they are a 501(c)3 business let them eat cake. 

[bigmacc]

There has been more packs in the Methow than these three for years.  I don’t even know how far back.     I gave up keeping tabs there were so many wolves.   It’s absolute hogwash what they spew. Propaganda hogwash.   It’s perfect for many of the people living in the valley now with their pink P hats.   I bet you are almost sick to your stomach Todd every time you go get a gallon of milk.

 .....The Methow is becoming more and more anti hunting as we speak, every year more and more people move to the valley that sure as hell don't want to see us as hunters ruin what they think is their little "Shang-gra-la", they cherish their predators including their "cash cow", the wolf. They know that these deer killers will eventually get rid of us hunters and our guns from the valley and let nature take care of the herd numbers the way it should be taken care of, by nature and not hunters(what they think). As many on here know before tourism(pre North Cascade Hwy), sportsmen, fishermen and yes, hunters pumped a lot of money into the valley, a lot of local businesses counted on hunters and fishermen leaving money at small local businesses for a few months each year, now the hunters and fishermen have been surpassed by tourists, birdwatchers, cross country skiers, naturalists, pottery makers and dozens of other arts and craftsy Subaru jockeys. Wolves, like bone said have been there for years and more are there than we as hunters will ever be told, heck there are signs in parts of the north valley now that warn folks to keep their dogs on leash because of traps in the area that attract canines for study. I have been seeing wolf sign over the last 8-10 years increase 10 fold from the town of Winthrop north to the border, places where you could set your watch by to see 100 deer 10 years ago now your lucky to see 5 and don't even get me started on what we would see 20, 30 or 40 years ago and those that have heard my stories from my great grandparents going back decades before that, well, it would make you sick to your stomach what has happened to this herd. Propaganda, I tend to agree with you bone, they want us to keep buying licenses and tags to keep money coming in so we will never really know how many predators are really in that valley, all we will keep getting is low ball numbers and continue to see deer numbers go farther and farther down the toilet in this valley

[bigmacc]

With all the wolf sign that we have been seeing over the last decade in the north valley, there has got to be a pack up that way, maybe more. Talked with a fella a couple years ago that seen some cross the road up Boulder Creek and talked with a fella who's hunted up around Falls Creek and up into 30 mile that has seen numerous wolves, we have seen all kinds of wolf sign up that way the last couple years also along with very few deer. Then in other parts up that direction is where we have been seeing a lot of cached kills(cougars), geeze, these deer are being pummeled. If the goal is eventually "no hunting" in the Methow (which a lot of folks there want) its not going to be that far off, meanwhile they will try to keep feeding us the "propaganda" to milk as many license sales as they can before the whole valley becomes a buffer zone/santuary for the folks that don't want us there.....

[wolfbait]

There has been more packs in the Methow than these three for years.  I don’t even know how far back.     I gave up keeping tabs there were so many wolves.   It’s absolute hogwash what they spew. Propaganda hogwash.   It’s perfect for many of the people living in the valley now with their pink P hats.   I bet you are almost sick to your stomach Todd every time you go get a gallon of milk.

It's been hard to watch Doug, it's what happens when the city moves to the country. Can't blame them for wanting to live here, but then greed gets involved, and they begin to change it to what they left behind.

Not all the people that moved here have the same ideas as those who are after the power & $$, many feel and talk the same as we do about wolves, uncontrolled predators and the piss poor job WDF&Wolves have and are doing.

Back in the 70's I had a conversation with and old guy that worked for the USFS, in short, he told me what was planned for the Methow, he said the logging, ranching and farming would be replaced by recreation etc.. I didn't believe him, but over the years I have seen what he said coming true.

The USFWS and their illegally introduced wolves, uncontrolled predators, buying up farm and ranch land at prices no-one else could or would want to pay, the war on water through fish. Federal and state agencies partnering up with fake environmentalist to push their agendas, lying propaganda for those who have no clue and don't live in these rural areas believe and spew the same BS. You have seen it the same as I..

Occasionally Charlie and I will take a drive to see what's left for deer, now a big herd of deer is ten and we are lucky to see any deer outside of town, and the "new" locals think our deer herd is doing fine, "we have lots of deer" they say.. They have No clue, but then they shouldn't because they are new and they believe the lies told by WDFW etc.

The Methow is going to represent much of WA in the future, limited if any opportunities to hunt...All of you pro-wolfers should give each other a good slap on the back for a job well done, you pushed the lies of the USFWS, fake environmentalist and WDFW through it all. $$$



I guess it's called Progress..



 Alaska or Wyoming looks better every year..

[nwwanderer]

Progressive, very different from progress

[bigmacc]

There has been more packs in the Methow than these three for years.  I don’t even know how far back.     I gave up keeping tabs there were so many wolves.   It’s absolute hogwash what they spew. Propaganda hogwash.   It’s perfect for many of the people living in the valley now with their pink P hats.   I bet you are almost sick to your stomach Todd every time you go get a gallon of milk.

It's been hard to watch Doug, it's what happens when the city moves to the country. Can't blame them for wanting to live here, but then greed gets involved, and they begin to change it to what they left behind.

Not all the people that moved here have the same ideas as those who are after the power & $$, many feel and talk the same as we do about wolves, uncontrolled predators and the piss poor job WDF&Wolves have and are doing.

Back in the 70's I had a conversation with and old guy that worked for the USFS, in short, he told me what was planned for the Methow, he said the logging, ranching and farming would be replaced by recreation etc.. I didn't believe him, but over the years I have seen what he said coming true.

The USFWS and their illegally introduced wolves, uncontrolled predators, buying up farm and ranch land at prices no-one else could or would want to pay, the war on water through fish. Federal and state agencies partnering up with fake environmentalist to push their agendas, lying propaganda for those who have no clue and don't live in these rural areas believe and spew the same BS. You have seen it the same as I..

Occasionally Charlie and I will take a drive to see what's left for deer, now a big herd of deer is ten and we are lucky to see any deer outside of town, and the "new" locals think our deer herd is doing fine, "we have lots of deer" they say.. They have No clue, but then they shouldn't because they are new and they believe the lies told by WDFW etc.

The Methow is going to represent much of WA in the future, limited if any opportunities to hunt...All of you pro-wolfers should give each other a good slap on the back for a job well done, you pushed the lies of the USFWS, fake environmentalist and WDFW through it all. $$$



I guess it's called Progress..



 Alaska or Wyoming looks better every year..

You speak the truth wolfbait, my son and I put on over 300 truck miles and close to 20 miles total on our boots over 4 days, from Ramsey and Bear creek north up into 30 mile turf and pretty much every thing in between, 17 deer seen, would have been 200-300 15-20 years ago during this same timeframe and those same areas would have produced thousands during the rut time frame in November, nowadays maybe a hundred or so during migrations, you are spot on, "they have NO clue" and yes, there sure seems to be some "agendas" going on in this valley, been thinking this myself for years now, and unlike the old days these "agendas" don't have anything to do with nurturing, growing and putting forth a healthy mule deer herd, like I have been saying, that would be good for us as hunters, which is not what the majority of the "new locals" want. Like I said earlier, back in the day the herd was a top priority, hunters brought in a lot of money for local businesses for a couple weeks each year, now the herd has slid so far down the ladder its ridiculous, now more money comes into this valley since the opening of the pass back in the 70,s from people who could care less about hunting and yep, by many who are anti hunting. Hunters and hunting are not a priority in this valley and will never be again unfortunately and because of that fact the deer herd will never be a priority again, for a lot of us who have history in this valley and memories of mule deer hunting (that at least in my opinion) could rival many of the coveted mule deer states in the west, it truly is sad and shameful. The deer herd and hunters were needed at one time, not only for the businesses in the valley but for revenue for the state also, the "new locals" have replaced our money with tourist, cross country skiing and yuppy hipster bicycle money and this states government could care less about us as hunters, it was the beginning of the end when the pass opened, it just took awhile for the old guard of this valley to be replaced by the new guard, at least I have a lot of priceless memories and history.

[Utah]

KIll'em on site period.  Be a Patriot...   WDFW are bold faced liars when it comes to numbers..  I dare you to prove me wrong.   Look no further tan Idaho harvest rates and Pack numbers.   Bold faced commie liars.   A true patriot knows exactly what to do.  Truth hurts

[wolfbait]

KIll'em on site period.  Be a Patriot...   WDFW are bold faced liars when it comes to numbers..  I dare you to prove me wrong.   Look no further tan Idaho harvest rates and Pack numbers.   Bold faced commie liars.   A true patriot knows exactly what to do.  Truth hurts

We can't shoot our way out of the wolf problem, anytime it looks like wolves are not up to quota in an area the USFWS & WDFW will make sure more wolves "migrate" into that area.

Rural people, including ranchers who are having wolf problems have been taking care of the problems themselves, and WDFW would just a soon they did, that way they don't have to pretend to give a damn and they are not under the obligation to confirm another wolf pack.

70% of wolves need to be killed each year in order to hold a wolf population steady, tell me how that would ever get accomplished even if you hunted year around? Alaska Fish&Game save caribou herds by aerial gunning and bait poisons, the only time we hear about wolves in WA is over livestock predation.

The USFWS, WDFW and the fake environmentalist don't care about anything except protecting predators, the end game has been to destroy rural communities and buying up as much private land as they can, the wolves were just another tool and lets not forget the USFS, that have been closing off roads for years, and the lets see what happens, mega fires etc...

The only thing that will ruin wolves in WA, is when they run out of prey... So save your passion and anger for something you can actually change...

There has been more packs in the Methow than these three for years.  I don’t even know how far back.     I gave up keeping tabs there were so many wolves.   It’s absolute hogwash what they spew. Propaganda hogwash.   It’s perfect for many of the people living in the valley now with their pink P hats.   I bet you are almost sick to your stomach Todd every time you go get a gallon of milk.

It's been hard to watch Doug, it's what happens when the city moves to the country. Can't blame them for wanting to live here, but then greed gets involved, and they begin to change it to what they left behind.

Not all the people that moved here have the same ideas as those who are after the power & $$, many feel and talk the same as we do about wolves, uncontrolled predators and the piss poor job WDF&Wolves have and are doing.

Back in the 70's I had a conversation with and old guy that worked for the USFS, in short, he told me what was planned for the Methow, he said the logging, ranching and farming would be replaced by recreation etc.. I didn't believe him, but over the years I have seen what he said coming true.

The USFWS and their illegally introduced wolves, uncontrolled predators, buying up farm and ranch land at prices no-one else could or would want to pay, the war on water through fish. Federal and state agencies partnering up with fake environmentalist to push their agendas, lying propaganda for those who have no clue and don't live in these rural areas believe and spew the same BS. You have seen it the same as I..

Occasionally Charlie and I will take a drive to see what's left for deer, now a big herd of deer is ten and we are lucky to see any deer outside of town, and the "new" locals think our deer herd is doing fine, "we have lots of deer" they say.. They have No clue, but then they shouldn't because they are new and they believe the lies told by WDFW etc.

The Methow is going to represent much of WA in the future, limited if any opportunities to hunt...All of you pro-wolfers should give each other a good slap on the back for a job well done, you pushed the lies of the USFWS, fake environmentalist and WDFW through it all. $$$



I guess it's called Progress..



 Alaska or Wyoming looks better every year..

You speak the truth wolfbait, my son and I put on over 300 truck miles and close to 20 miles total on our boots over 4 days, from Ramsey and Bear creek north up into 30 mile turf and pretty much every thing in between, 17 deer seen, would have been 200-300 15-20 years ago during this same timeframe and those same areas would have produced thousands during the rut time frame in November, nowadays maybe a hundred or so during migrations, you are spot on, "they have NO clue" and yes, there sure seems to be some "agendas" going on in this valley, been thinking this myself for years now, and unlike the old days these "agendas" don't have anything to do with nurturing, growing and putting forth a healthy mule deer herd, like I have been saying, that would be good for us as hunters, which is not what the majority of the "new locals" want. Like I said earlier, back in the day the herd was a top priority, hunters brought in a lot of money for local businesses for a couple weeks each year, now the herd has slid so far down the ladder its ridiculous, now more money comes into this valley since the opening of the pass back in the 70,s from people who could care less about hunting and yep, by many who are anti hunting. Hunters and hunting are not a priority in this valley and will never be again unfortunately and because of that fact the deer herd will never be a priority again, for a lot of us who have history in this valley and memories of mule deer hunting (that at least in my opinion) could rival many of the coveted mule deer states in the west, it truly is sad and shameful. The deer herd and hunters were needed at one time, not only for the businesses in the valley but for revenue for the state also, the "new locals" have replaced our money with tourist, cross country skiing and yuppy hipster bicycle money and this states government could care less about us as hunters, it was the beginning of the end when the pass opened, it just took awhile for the old guard of this valley to be replaced by the new guard, at least I have a lot of priceless memories and history.

I have read your stories Mac, and I can relate to many of them, and as you say "it was the beginning of the end when the pass opened, it just took awhile for the old guard of this valley to be replaced by the new guard, at least I have a lot of priceless memories and history."



We were bless to be raised in the Methow, we were shaped by the land and the people who lived there, I like the old Methow a hell of a lot more than the new Methow, it's time to look for new pasture...

[Jingles]

 

[bigmacc]

Yep, I also miss the old Methow compared to the new Methow, way to much spandex, Volvos and fancy bicycles. When Mac Lloyd used to own the big ranch up by the Pearrygin we became good friends with the folks who managed/worked the ranch, we spent a few holidays at each others houses and spent many, many hours swapping priceless stories of the valley, it truly was a magical place. The younger folks who have just discovered the valley over the last 30 or so years have really no clue what this valley was really like especially in the Winthrop area, horses and cattle coming right down the streets was a common deal, now mostly in parades. Hundreds of head of cattle coming down both the East and West Chewuch roads coming out of the high country, being pushed by dozens of cowboys getting them from point A to point B. Driving around with my dad during hunting season to see huge bucks being skinned in garages, carports and front yards was normal, even in downtown Winthrop, heck I remember 3 huge bucks hanging in the service bay of the gas station downtown all in the process of being skinned, there was probably 15 or 20 locals down there watching and taking pictures of their kids with the deer, don't think that would happen now days, heck, a gang of bike helmet wearing hipsters would track you down and sue you for damaging the minds of their youngins . Back then the Game Department folks were hunters, from the wardens to the game managers to the bios, they all hunted and were not fond of any predators that were killing these deer year round. They would come into camps and let people know where bears and cougar were seen and practically begged you to shoot every coyote on sight and as a lot of us know, there just wasn't that many predators around because their numbers were kept in check, like I have said many times, it was actually kind of a treat to see a cougar or a bear because there just wasn't that many around. There still are some old guard left around to basically just tell the stories of this beautiful valley, like a lot of us have said, we sure liked it more when folks had no idea there were towns named Winthrop or Twisp that actually existed in this state, Baxter Black  had a poem about something to do with progress, I don't remember exactly how it goes but had something to do with the weak of heart and how the folks who wanted it later claimed they hated it when it got there. Anyway, this used to be a special place but the old guard just like the deer herd are being replaced by other "species" and we are being outnumbered, soon the predators will do away with the herd to the point that seeing a deer will be a "treat" and seeing cowboys and packers will only be seen in parades. All that spandex, those bike helmets, hot air balloons, pottery shops and winery tours will be the new norm and oh ya, tie dye is replacing buckskin and hickory shirts and oh ya, did I say that "seeing a deer will be a treat". I never thought it would happen, but it sure did.

[Utah]

Dont talk about wolves. Don't report cattle kills.   Just make it go away.

[wolfbait]

Dont talk about wolves. Don't report cattle kills.   Just make it go away.

Bingo, we have a Winner....

[wolfbait]

Yep, I also miss the old Methow compared to the new Methow, way to much spandex, Volvos and fancy bicycles. When Mac Lloyd used to own the big ranch up by the Pearrygin we became good friends with the folks who managed/worked the ranch, we spent a few holidays at each others houses and spent many, many hours swapping priceless stories of the valley, it truly was a magical place. The younger folks who have just discovered the valley over the last 30 or so years have really no clue what this valley was really like especially in the Winthrop area, horses and cattle coming right down the streets was a common deal, now mostly in parades. Hundreds of head of cattle coming down both the East and West Chewuch roads coming out of the high country, being pushed by dozens of cowboys getting them from point A to point B. Driving around with my dad during hunting season to see huge bucks being skinned in garages, carports and front yards was normal, even in downtown Winthrop, heck I remember 3 huge bucks hanging in the service bay of the gas station downtown all in the process of being skinned, there was probably 15 or 20 locals down there watching and taking pictures of their kids with the deer, don't think that would happen now days, heck, a gang of bike helmet wearing hipsters would track you down and sue you for damaging the minds of their youngins . Back then the Game Department folks were hunters, from the wardens to the game managers to the bios, they all hunted and were not fond of any predators that were killing these deer year round. They would come into camps and let people know where bears and cougar were seen and practically begged you to shoot every coyote on sight and as a lot of us know, there just wasn't that many predators around because their numbers were kept in check, like I have said many times, it was actually kind of a treat to see a cougar or a bear because there just wasn't that many around. There still are some old guard left around to basically just tell the stories of this beautiful valley, like a lot of us have said, we sure liked it more when folks had no idea there were towns named Winthrop or Twisp that actually existed in this state, Baxter Black  had a poem about something to do with progress, I don't remember exactly how it goes but had something to do with the weak of heart and how the folks who wanted it later claimed they hated it when it got there. Anyway, this used to be a special place but the old guard just like the deer herd are being replaced by other "species" and we are being outnumbered, soon the predators will do away with the herd to the point that seeing a deer will be a "treat" and seeing cowboys and packers will only be seen in parades. All that spandex, those bike helmets, hot air balloons, pottery shops and winery tours will be the new norm and oh ya, tie dye is replacing buckskin and hickory shirts and oh ya, did I say that "seeing a deer will be a treat". I never thought it would happen, but it sure did.

In 2010 I took my daughter deer hunting in a area where I use to be able to get big 4x4's plus, any day during hunting season as long as I had a few days to hike in. Underneath the rimrock there were buck beds that looked like cow beds, it was hard very slow hunting, lot's of glassing, and long range shooting, and hell packing out. Twenty some years in a row I killed big bucks there, never saw another hunter all those years. We hiked most of the area I hunted and saw very few deer, we did see wolf tracks on many of the trails. We came home, and less then a half a mile from our place saw four wolves, they watched us watch them before lopping up the hill, a sign of the times.

When the city moves to the country, the country isn’t country anymore…

Realtors: ‘urban flight’ to the Methow expected to continue

https://methowvalleynews.com/2020/05/20/realtors-urban-flight-to-the-methow-expected-to-continue/

[bigmacc]

Thats to bad  , at this point in time I don't know which is worse the dang wolves or all the the Seattleites which I,m sure a big percentage of are anti hunting and friends of the wolf, Im not saying all are like that, just most of the ones I've bumped into while in this valley. I actually had the misfortune of having one try and "scold" me in a store because I had a sweatshirt on that had a picture of a buck on it with Browning Rifles and a hunting theme on it, nothing distasteful, just something to do with hunting, the old blue hair let me have it about how disgusted she was of people like me killing a defenseless animal, I let her unload and was very respectful, she ended by saying how fed up she was of all the people with guns killing things and was at her wits end to the point she may move back to Seattle, I calmly replied that I could have myself and a handful of friends ready at the drop of a hat to help her pack and handle the heavy lifting to help her out, I tipped my hat, wished her a good day and walked away. These my friends are becoming more and more the "new guard" of the valley, along with exploding numbers of predators, our heritage of hunting in the Methow is becoming very shaky, Im no conspiracy guy by any means but as time passes and I see where this valley and hunting it is today, compared to 55 or so years ago when I killed my first buck, yep, things have changed and some of those changes needed help.....just my opinion and 

[buckfvr]

That type and their opinions aren't exclusive to the Methow as they live in abundance through out n.e. Wa.  Some  of us hunt, some of the folks are indifferent, and probably as many or more don't agree with hunting of any kind, yes right here.

The liberal agenda is alive and flourishing its way across the west. 

[mountainman]

KIll'em on site period.  Be a Patriot...   WDFW are bold faced liars when it comes to numbers..  I dare you to prove me wrong.   Look no further tan Idaho harvest rates and Pack numbers.   Bold faced commie liars.   A true patriot knows exactly what to do.  Truth hurts

We can't shoot our way out of the wolf problem, anytime it looks like wolves are not up to quota in an area the USFWS & WDFW will make sure more wolves "migrate" into that area.

Rural people, including ranchers who are having wolf problems have been taking care of the problems themselves, and WDFW would just a soon they did, that way they don't have to pretend to give a damn and they are not under the obligation to confirm another wolf pack.

70% of wolves need to be killed each year in order to hold a wolf population steady, tell me how that would ever get accomplished even if you hunted year around? Alaska Fish&Game save caribou herds by aerial gunning and bait poisons, the only time we hear about wolves in WA is over livestock predation.

The USFWS, WDFW and the fake environmentalist don't care about anything except protecting predators, the end game has been to destroy rural communities and buying up as much private land as they can, the wolves were just another tool and lets not forget the USFS, that have been closing off roads for years, and the lets see what happens, mega fires etc...

The only thing that will ruin wolves in WA, is when they run out of prey... So save your passion and anger for something you can actually change...

There has been more packs in the Methow than these three for years.  I don’t even know how far back.     I gave up keeping tabs there were so many wolves.   It’s absolute hogwash what they spew. Propaganda hogwash.   It’s perfect for many of the people living in the valley now with their pink P hats.   I bet you are almost sick to your stomach Todd every time you go get a gallon of milk.

It's been hard to watch Doug, it's what happens when the city moves to the country. Can't blame them for wanting to live here, but then greed gets involved, and they begin to change it to what they left behind.

Not all the people that moved here have the same ideas as those who are after the power & $$, many feel and talk the same as we do about wolves, uncontrolled predators and the piss poor job WDF&Wolves have and are doing.

Back in the 70's I had a conversation with and old guy that worked for the USFS, in short, he told me what was planned for the Methow, he said the logging, ranching and farming would be replaced by recreation etc.. I didn't believe him, but over the years I have seen what he said coming true.

The USFWS and their illegally introduced wolves, uncontrolled predators, buying up farm and ranch land at prices no-one else could or would want to pay, the war on water through fish. Federal and state agencies partnering up with fake environmentalist to push their agendas, lying propaganda for those who have no clue and don't live in these rural areas believe and spew the same BS. You have seen it the same as I..

Occasionally Charlie and I will take a drive to see what's left for deer, now a big herd of deer is ten and we are lucky to see any deer outside of town, and the "new" locals think our deer herd is doing fine, "we have lots of deer" they say.. They have No clue, but then they shouldn't because they are new and they believe the lies told by WDFW etc.

The Methow is going to represent much of WA in the future, limited if any opportunities to hunt...All of you pro-wolfers should give each other a good slap on the back for a job well done, you pushed the lies of the USFWS, fake environmentalist and WDFW through it all. $$$



I guess it's called Progress..



 Alaska or Wyoming looks better every year..

You speak the truth wolfbait, my son and I put on over 300 truck miles and close to 20 miles total on our boots over 4 days, from Ramsey and Bear creek north up into 30 mile turf and pretty much every thing in between, 17 deer seen, would have been 200-300 15-20 years ago during this same timeframe and those same areas would have produced thousands during the rut time frame in November, nowadays maybe a hundred or so during migrations, you are spot on, "they have NO clue" and yes, there sure seems to be some "agendas" going on in this valley, been thinking this myself for years now, and unlike the old days these "agendas" don't have anything to do with nurturing, growing and putting forth a healthy mule deer herd, like I have been saying, that would be good for us as hunters, which is not what the majority of the "new locals" want. Like I said earlier, back in the day the herd was a top priority, hunters brought in a lot of money for local businesses for a couple weeks each year, now the herd has slid so far down the ladder its ridiculous, now more money comes into this valley since the opening of the pass back in the 70,s from people who could care less about hunting and yep, by many who are anti hunting. Hunters and hunting are not a priority in this valley and will never be again unfortunately and because of that fact the deer herd will never be a priority again, for a lot of us who have history in this valley and memories of mule deer hunting (that at least in my opinion) could rival many of the coveted mule deer states in the west, it truly is sad and shameful. The deer herd and hunters were needed at one time, not only for the businesses in the valley but for revenue for the state also, the "new locals" have replaced our money with tourist, cross country skiing and yuppy hipster bicycle money and this states government could care less about us as hunters, it was the beginning of the end when the pass opened, it just took awhile for the old guard of this valley to be replaced by the new guard, at least I have a lot of priceless memories and history.

I have read your stories Mac, and I can relate to many of them, and as you say "it was the beginning of the end when the pass opened, it just took awhile for the old guard of this valley to be replaced by the new guard, at least I have a lot of priceless memories and history."



We were bless to be raised in the Methow, we were shaped by the land and the people who lived there, I like the old Methow a hell of a lot more than the new Methow, it's time to look for new pasture...

Right there with both of you Wolfbait, sad future but we werw lucky to grow up in the Methow during to good days👍

[bigmacc]

That type and their opinions aren't exclusive to the Methow as they live in abundance through out n.e. Wa.  Some  of us hunt, some of the folks are indifferent, and probably as many or more don't agree with hunting of any kind, yes right here.

The liberal agenda is alive and flourishing its way across the west.

True, but certain areas or pockets seem to be "taking off" faster and seem to be closer to being all out void of game animals and therefor will soon be void of hunting. Like some have said concerning the Methow, "propaganda", "agendas", "lies told" and throw in a booming population of people who are politicaly liberal AND anti gun, anti hunting packed into a small valley (compared to the N.E corner) like the Methow and you see what hunters are concerned with, everything is concentrated/magnified. Like a lot of us have said, the opening of the north cascades pass was the beginning of the end for this sleepy little valley, known by few for its ranching, agriculture AND the largest migrating mule deer herd in the country, estimated at 35,000-40,000 head at its peak. As more people discovered this valley by traveling the new pass, they also discovered the "little town at the end of the road". Along with all the new people discovering this valley were also a percentage that baught land, moved there and brought their politics and their views on everything from architecture to, yep, hunting. Awhile after the pass was opened the predator issue reared its ugly head, wolves were being seen regularly, liberal voters did away with effective ways of controlling the predators like cougar and bear, the Department of Game who focused on our deer herd in the valley became the WDFW who look after all creatures now and in a way have way too many irons in the fire to focus on all of them and as a result, we have what we have now, a valley filling up with people who don't want hunters there and growing numbers of predators that are now coddled by the WDFW as the herd has slid down many rungs of the ladder. Some folks I've listened to think the growing predator numbers including many packs of wolves will eventually be used to keep the deer herd in check and opeese the growing population of the valley who don't want us there by limiting hunting or even possibly closing the valley to hunting because of low deer numbers, a sanctuary or a buffer zone, who knows. One thing for sure is this herd is not doing well, folks that know this valley and this herd will look anyone in the eye and tell them that, they(WDFW) estimate it at around 15,000-17,000 I believe, most, if not all that know this herd will immediately call BS!  They wonder why folks have lost confidence in the WDFW, understating some things, overstating others in a lot of peoples opinions. Why some call what they say is propaganda, some may call it lies, some may call it deception, the for sure thing is respect and confidence has been eroded over the years because of what they have let happen to this herd, yep, a lot of it is because of the politics of the state, the politics and beliefs of the "new guard" moving into the valley etc. but lowballing numbers of predators or inflating numbers of game animals in certain areas when folks know they are not even close, well, thats where it breaks down with the hunting community. The folks that know me know I have the utmost respect for Game Wardens and the folks in the trenches, I have had family members that have worked within the Game Departments of 2 other states, one in a high up position and I have friends that have worked for this states Game Department of the past, they did a great job for our Game herds. Another pack of wolves in the Methow? Probably more than one new pack, people are seeing new sign from one end of the valley to the other over the last 5-6 years, areas that wolf sign was not seen prior, traps are being set in new areas(last couple years) to apparently verify . We are being told the herd is doing fine but each year we are seeing less and less deer and deer sign but are seeing more and more sign of wolf, cougar and bear and we are seeing more sign of predators in places where we weren't seeing them before so its obvious they(wolf and cougar especially) are moving about the valley in search of whats left of prey, is the Methow becoming a predator pit? Some folks Ive talked to say it happened awhile ago, some say its in full swing, some say we will know soon but they all say this herd has taken a beating by predators over the last couple decades.  At least for the Methow and to those who know it well its a perfect storm for the demise of this deer herd which has been taking shape over the years, its a big cluster of politics, more anti hunting folks moving to the valley, exploding predator numbers, the population growth and expansion of the wolf and no longer having a "Department of Game" as an advocate for the well being of the herd as their first priority, all of it has contributed to what has happened to this once historic herd...Sorry for the rant, just my opinion and