Wdfw survey

[Bango skank]

Yes and we have been targeting bears in our area.   

I would like to see cats get managed better.  Hounds, trapping, year round season etc.   we have a cat problem bad.  I have cats on camera regularly and they say an adult cat can kill a deer a week.  Just in our area that would equate to hundreds of deer a year.   

We are likely looking at more cougar improvements on the table soon. 

[hunter399]

I voted for a 2 pt minimum and no loss of opportunity for youth and 65+. There's no doubt that if we don't make drastic steps toward killing predators that in the next 10 years it will probably be draw only in the NE corner (which was a question on the survey), which is hard to even comprehend considering what it used to be.

Entirely the same age class of whitetail as a spike.  Don't need to be pursuing baby bucks still with their mamas (except youth).  The most vulnerable bucks in the woods (1, 2, 3pt 18 mo old deer) need a free pass from adult hunters.

Need a pass to create a better age class buck or better population?

Clearly a pass so we are not teaching people to get participation trophies.....duh!!  Because if you hunt for a week straight and decide to fill you freezer with a 3 point buck you didn't hunt as hard as the guy that got a 5 point. 

I would argue that shooting a smaller buck would allow the larger ones to continue to spread their genes.  Isn't this the reason most east side elk is spike only? 

I am all for a healthy population and also for a chance at a nice buck but I feel some hunters today have lost the meaning of what hunting is and has always been for most who enjoy the sport.  It isn't always about killing a 150+ class whitetail. 

I have hunted the NE corner (though sporadically) since I was 8 years old.  The deer numbers are clearly down but some make it out as if the deer are almost extinct.  This is simply not the fact.  Take and hour drive in the morning or evening in most of these GMU's an a guy can count 100's of deer.  I get it...20 years ago driving the same roads a guy would likely count 5 times as much. 

I agree with all that has been said about predator hunting ....and we try and do our part yearly by killing bruins.  We also shoot coyotes when the opportunity presents. 

I get the distinct feeling that a few on here want trophies....and are willing to take opportunity away from others in the hopes of building trophy class deer.  I couldn't disagree more with this sentiment.    I am for point restrictions if needed to benefit the heard.  I am not for point restrictions in an attempt to build trophies.  I also am not for giving up any more ground to WDFW especially when it burdens our youth and 65+ opportunity.

I would like you to pm me these roads where I can count 100's of deer in a hour.

One thing I can say that does rub me the wrong way with WDFW is deer counts should be done on public huntable land ,doing deer counts in private owned ag field.when like 60% of region 1 ne corner is public land .count deer where oppertunitty is for the hunter.

[bhawley76]

I think we need to cull the doe population just a little. I live in 101 and I am at number 3 with my truck this year and my wife has gotten one. There isn't one person up here that would argue that. Maybe its just me but not everyone is out for a wall hanger and that's fine. My point is there is more deer running around in the woods that are for the guy that wants that big rack, If people spent a little time shed hunting they would agree. Just because you don't see them doesn't mean there not there.

[Pegasus]

Survey asked nothing about predator control. All about point restrictions and season changes. Nothing about controlling predators. How convenient to design a survey and ignore the elephant in the room. Designed to produce only politically correct answers that that restrict the hunters but not the predators.

The survey wasnt about predators or predator control. It was about apr.

Although, I suppose if one believes hunting has no real effect on the population because predators are simply eating all the deer, then I suppose you could make the argument that APR is just rearranging some deck chairs on the Titanic.

I don't believe this, as even with predators, hunting is often the leading or among the leading causes of mortality - so modifications to hunter harvest will often have real and near-immediate population level effects.

Here is the problem with the survey of kills on deer. Clearly hunters are not the problem in managing game populations. This chart does not mention car kills or coyote kills(doubtful that the miscellaneous category covers the amounts correctly) and I believe it underestimates the bear kills. The odds a motorist, nationally, will hit a deer or other animal are 1 in 116, according to State Farm Insurance.

[Pegasus]

I think we need to cull the doe population just a little. I live in 101 and I am at number 3 with my truck this year and my wife has gotten one. There isn't one person up here that would argue that. Maybe its just me but not everyone is out for a wall hanger and that's fine. My point is there is more deer running around in the woods that are for the guy that wants that big rack, If people spent a little time shed hunting they would agree. Just because you don't see them doesn't mean there not there.

Maybe a defensive driving course is in order? 

[Bango skank]

I think we need to cull the doe population just a little. I live in 101 and I am at number 3 with my truck this year and my wife has gotten one. There isn't one person up here that would argue that. Maybe its just me but not everyone is out for a wall hanger and that's fine. My point is there is more deer running around in the woods that are for the guy that wants that big rack, If people spent a little time shed hunting they would agree. Just because you don't see them doesn't mean there not there.

Maybe a defensive driving course is in order? 

We dont need to cull.  He just needs to drive better.

[Pegasus]

I think we need to cull the doe population just a little. I live in 101 and I am at number 3 with my truck this year and my wife has gotten one. There isn't one person up here that would argue that. Maybe its just me but not everyone is out for a wall hanger and that's fine. My point is there is more deer running around in the woods that are for the guy that wants that big rack, If people spent a little time shed hunting they would agree. Just because you don't see them doesn't mean there not there.

Maybe a defensive driving course is in order? 

We dont need to cull.  He just needs to drive better.

Not sure how his auto insurance likes it but at least his freezer should be full...

[buckfvr]

Yes, but it all blurs together.  WDFW and trophy hunters, if given the chance would shut down all hunting except for APR units that cost $$$$ to apply to hunt for trophies.  I'm 100% against that.  The NE units are not gonna be hurt by youth and 65+  hunters. 

I am aggressively addressing the bear in and around my land.  I have owned it for two years and am allowing family to hunt and hopefully kill or pressure the bruin to the point they don't want to be there.  We will see what happens to the local deer herds.  some may think I am arguing to simply argue....but I have a vested interest in the NE corner and I personally do not see an emergent issue with current deer population.  Could it be better....yes.  Is managing one aspect of the perceived problem the answer....no.  Until WDFW pulls their heads out of their rectums and manages predators better.....I will not support the continued loss of hunting opportunity. 

Its kinda like fishing, You'll never get a big one if you keep all the lil ones. Same goes for hunting. But to each his own. 

Not everyone wants the big ones.  The little ones taste better.   

Still putting words in others mouths because you don't agree with or understand whats being said here.  You keep throwing the "trophy" hunting thing out there when I never mentioned trophy hunting as I am not a trophy hunter.  Just like your sons trophy, everyone has a different picture of what trophy means.  My trophy may not be yours or anyone elses.  Hell, I don't even know anyone Id consider a trophy hunter, but we do all want a better opportunity to more mature animals rather than being stuck in the wdfw rut of managing for a high yield of young animals.

If they set apr at 4pt, I think youll be surprised at how easy it is to kill these young 4xs, just as easy as a spike.  Maybe some guys have a difficult time being successful because of time constraints or vacation timing, but that's not a universal problem.

And so I see several others have piped up about 18mo old 4xs which you called fake news, well guess what, your "not everyone wants a big one, the little ones taste better" truly is fake news.   

[vandeman17]

Yes, but it all blurs together.  WDFW and trophy hunters, if given the chance would shut down all hunting except for APR units that cost $$$$ to apply to hunt for trophies.  I'm 100% against that.  The NE units are not gonna be hurt by youth and 65+  hunters. 

I am aggressively addressing the bear in and around my land.  I have owned it for two years and am allowing family to hunt and hopefully kill or pressure the bruin to the point they don't want to be there.  We will see what happens to the local deer herds.  some may think I am arguing to simply argue....but I have a vested interest in the NE corner and I personally do not see an emergent issue with current deer population.  Could it be better....yes.  Is managing one aspect of the perceived problem the answer....no.  Until WDFW pulls their heads out of their rectums and manages predators better.....I will not support the continued loss of hunting opportunity. 

Its kinda like fishing, You'll never get a big one if you keep all the lil ones. Same goes for hunting. But to each his own. 

Not everyone wants the big ones.  The little ones taste better.   

Still putting words in others mouths because you don't agree with or understand whats being said here.  You keep throwing the "trophy" hunting thing out there when I never mentioned trophy hunting as I am not a trophy hunter.  Just like your sons trophy, everyone has a different picture of what trophy means.  My trophy may not be yours or anyone elses.  Hell, I don't even know anyone Id consider a trophy hunter, but we do all want a better opportunity to more mature animals rather than being stuck in the wdfw rut of managing for a high yield of young animals.

If they set apr at 4pt, I think youll be surprised at how easy it is to kill these young 4xs, just as easy as a spike.  Maybe some guys have a difficult time being successful because of time constraints or vacation timing, but that's not a universal problem.

And so I see several others have piped up about 18mo old 4xs which you called fake news, well guess what, your "not everyone wants a big one, the little ones taste better" truly is fake news.   

Do you want "mature" animals over "young animals" because they yield more meat or have bigger antlers? I think I know the answer but don't want to assume

[buckfvr]

The answer to that is the more mature a buck is, the more meat you get first, then, and only if the buck gets to live to full maturity, the antler thing can be better.  But if you read up on whitetails and QDMA, you will discover that the vast majority of bucks only ever get average antlers.  They have to have more than age going for them (especially in Wa.) to become actual trophy whitetails.  Granted, your 5 1/2 yr old and older bucks will have better antlers, but not always trophy quality, and how many guys you know who have killed 5 1/2 or older whitetails.

[vandeman17]

The answer to that is the more mature a buck is, the more meat you get first, then, and only if the buck gets to live to full maturity, the antler thing can be better.  But if you read up on whitetails and QDMA, you will discover that the vast majority of bucks only ever get average antlers.  They have to have more than age going for them (especially in Wa.) to become actual trophy whitetails.  Granted, your 5 1/2 yr old and older bucks will have better antlers, but not always trophy quality, and how many guys you know who have killed 5 1/2 or older whitetails.

You didn't answer what I was asking. You just gave me information, not why YOU want to kill a mature buck versus a young buck. I actually like the APR but with some conditions so I just wanted to clarify why guys are for it. 

[buckfvr]

I can only speak for the guys I know and hunt with.  Mostly we just like to hunt the entire season, the later the better.  Once your tag is cut, the hunt is over.  We enjoy the act of hunting more than the act of killing.  For me personally, the kill is very anticlimactic.  Sure its great to get your buck, especially a nice one, but still, its over once you've done that.  I hate the end of the season.

I know for a fact that there are those that envision killing monster bucks because there is a 4p apr, but that just isn't the case.  Sure there will be more 4 and 5pts out there, but again most will be 2 1/2, and 3 1/2 yr olds with fewer 4, 5, and 6 year olds respectively.  So even as the herd ages, odds don't get any better for harvesting the truly mature big ol bucks as they are so smart and respond so negatively to pressure that they become exceedingly difficult to hunt.  Yes guys do kill them, but they are still the exception.  Theres 4pts and theres 4pts.....entirely different animals made by age.

[vandeman17]

I can only speak for the guys I know and hunt with.  Mostly we just like to hunt the entire season, the later the better.  Once your tag is cut, the hunt is over.  We enjoy the act of hunting more than the act of killing.  For me personally, the kill is very anticlimactic.  Sure its great to get your buck, especially a nice one, but still, its over once you've done that.  I hate the end of the season.

I know for a fact that there are those that envision killing monster bucks because there is a 4p apr, but that just isn't the case.  Sure there will be more 4 and 5pts out there, but again most will be 2 1/2, and 3 1/2 yr olds with fewer 4, 5, and 6 year olds respectively.  So even as the herd ages, odds don't get any better for harvesting the truly mature big ol bucks as they are so smart and respond so negatively to pressure that they become exceedingly difficult to hunt.  Yes guys do kill them, but they are still the exception.  Theres 4pts and theres 4pts.....entirely different animals made by age.

You are a pro dodge ball player 

[jrebel]

I can only speak for the guys I know and hunt with.  Mostly we just like to hunt the entire season, the later the better.  Once your tag is cut, the hunt is over.  We enjoy the act of hunting more than the act of killing.  For me personally, the kill is very anticlimactic.  Sure its great to get your buck, especially a nice one, but still, its over once you've done that.  I hate the end of the season.

I know for a fact that there are those that envision killing monster bucks because there is a 4p apr, but that just isn't the case.  Sure there will be more 4 and 5pts out there, but again most will be 2 1/2, and 3 1/2 yr olds with fewer 4, 5, and 6 year olds respectively.  So even as the herd ages, odds don't get any better for harvesting the truly mature big ol bucks as they are so smart and respond so negatively to pressure that they become exceedingly difficult to hunt.  Yes guys do kill them, but they are still the exception.  Theres 4pts and theres 4pts.....entirely different animals made by age.

So what is it.....1.5 years or 2.5 years old to get 4 points?   You have now stated two different things.  I have a pretty good understanding of how fast the average whitetail grows and have pics to prove it for my area.  Most 1.5 year olds will be two points with eye guards (thus 3 pt).  They will become bigger three points and some will become 4 points at 2.5 years.   So.... Could a 1.5 year old grow 4pts.....sure I guess but the average buck in our area will not. 

As for putting words in your mouth....just trying to help out being that you keep dodging questions.   Remember....your the one that made the statement about participation trophies.  Now your saying trophies are in the eye of the beholder.  Your waiver if like a fart in the wind. 

I do respect others opinions.....that doesn’t mean I have to agree with them.

[vandeman17]

I can only speak for the guys I know and hunt with.  Mostly we just like to hunt the entire season, the later the better.  Once your tag is cut, the hunt is over.  We enjoy the act of hunting more than the act of killing.  For me personally, the kill is very anticlimactic.  Sure its great to get your buck, especially a nice one, but still, its over once you've done that.  I hate the end of the season.

I know for a fact that there are those that envision killing monster bucks because there is a 4p apr, but that just isn't the case.  Sure there will be more 4 and 5pts out there, but again most will be 2 1/2, and 3 1/2 yr olds with fewer 4, 5, and 6 year olds respectively.  So even as the herd ages, odds don't get any better for harvesting the truly mature big ol bucks as they are so smart and respond so negatively to pressure that they become exceedingly difficult to hunt.  Yes guys do kill them, but they are still the exception.  Theres 4pts and theres 4pts.....entirely different animals made by age.

So what is it.....1.5 years or 2.5 years old to get 4 points?   You have now stated two different things.  I have a pretty good understanding of how fast the average whitetail grows and have pics to prove it for my area.  Most 1.5 year olds will be two points with eye guards (thus 3 pt).  They will become bigger three points and some will become 4 points at 2.5 years.   So.... Could a 1.5 year old grow 4pts.....sure I guess but the average buck in our area will not. 

As for putting words in your mouth....just trying to help out being that you keep dodging questions.   Remember....your the one that made the statement about participation trophies.  Now your saying trophies are in the eye of the beholder.  Your waiver if like a fart in the wind. 

I do respect others opinions.....that doesn’t mean I have to agree with them.

Still hasn't answered mine that is a simple one word answer, Meat or Antler.