DRT archery deer

[tank21]

My in-laws live on a 10 acre piece of land in Cle Elum and have a ton of deer/elk in their grove of trees.  I want to get one for the meat but just want the hunt to be over as soon as I let the arrow fly.  Dead  right there.  Does anyone have any experiences where the animal will drop right there?  I like to shoot them in the neck with my rifle but with the neighbors that just won't go.  Too loud and obvious.  But if I could sneak one out with my bow and have it drop right there without having to track it that sure would be nice.  And avoid asking the neighbors for permission to retrieve a deer.  My only experience is that they run a bit after you shoot em with the bow.  Does anyone have any input from past experiences?  Really heavy arrow and thump em hard in the neck?  The shot would be close.  Maybe head shot?  That seems pretty precise though. 

[h20hunter]

My thoughts...

Rifle... if legal to use and can be done safely then use it.

I've heart shot deer that flinched, locked up, fell over with archery. I've also made less than ideal shot and followed them for hours.

I do not take neck shots with archery. Imo, you will have a big potential for a nasty wounded deer running around.

Noise...put a can on the gun or shoot with no break.

[h20hunter]

let me smack a meat buck and we can use my 6.5 creed suppressed.  Done and done!

[tank21]

I would say rifle is out.  Too many horses and the such in the area.  They don't like the range..."too dangerous" is what they would say.  I've been working on them for 7 years to hunt with a 20 Ga slug even but they are not into the gun idea for some reason. 

[Buckmark]

Sounds like this place is a no go then 

[h20hunter]

Understood.  That being said.... tried and true...big cutting heads, heart lung shot, make it count and be mindful that it will likely run. We can't make perfect shots and if you can't make the recovery on neighbors property I wouldn't take the shot without assistance in that relationship or something.  Clearly nobody wants to lose an animal to waste because of a neighbors attitude.  I would think you could lut a blind or stand in the furthest possible place from neighbors land that if you get a clean shot its not going more than a hundred yards with a double lung.

[buckfvr]

Why would you drive for hours through deer country to hunt less than 10 acres in Cle Elum ? Not trying to be rude but I dont get it.

[92xj]

Tree stand and spine shot.
You get to decide your ethics with the decision.

[Taco280AI]

I've had a deer walk in a tight circle till it dropped. Also one bull that got clipped in the spine and dropped, due to the angle, but that wasn't planned.

[Karl Blanchard]

Everyone who has done a bit of bow killing has had that real quick kill. I shot a deer a few years ago at close range, quartering away, took out off side shoulder. That deer looked like it got hit with a 338 Lapua! Dropped in its tracks! That's not normal though. Normal is 50-200 yard recovery on a good shot. So I'd plan on that 200 yard buffer zone for a deer. Elk are even worse. Cows and spikes are herd bound animals. When in distress they will seek out other elk and in a hurry. Its nothing for a double lunged cow or spike to run 300+ yards. My last late season cow took off after a double lung hit and went every bit of 500 yards and died in the middle of a Boulder field.

As for head shots or neck shots with an arrow. NO! I'll say it again......NO!!!!! I'm sure someone will chime in with "I did it and it worked great", but the likelihood of doing it deliberately and successfully aren't high. Arrows don't kill like bullets.  You have to slice something that will make them die. I've seen more than a few animals with arrows sticking out of there faces and necks to believe anyone should be going for this shot. I put down a cow years ago in the nile that had an arrow in her eye socket as well as her neck. Guys finally showed up and regailed their story to me.  Low brisket shot at 105 yards, finally caught up to her and shot her in the neck at 25 yards. Face arrow came a few hrs later at 10 yards where they had found her jumbled up in a tree root hole. To this day it makes me sick.

[h20hunter]

My only neck shot with a bow was a coup de gra ( sp? ) on an almost expired deer at 15 yards and was my only shot. I second the opinion...no neck and head shots with a bow unless absolutely required to end it, not start it.

[tank21]

Why would you drive for hours through deer country to hunt less than 10 acres in Cle Elum ? Not trying to be rude but I dont get it.

Because I am there for holidays and misc weekends and it's a perfect excuse to get out of the house for a bit.   Plus, it's August 7th and was just kicking tires to talk hunting I suppose.

[huntingfool7]

I've dropped one deer in it's tracks with a spine shot.  It was not intentional and my shot hit high on the chest from a tree stand.  I don't believe it's possible to intentionally make that shot with a bow.  A little higher and it would have gone over the spine.  A little lower and it would have passed between the spine and the top of the lungs.

If you should have an animal drop at the shot due to a spinal hit, you need to shoot again quickly.  There is a high likelyhood that the animal will shake it off and bolt.   There is no assurances that the spinal column was cut until you have him on the butcher table.

I think you are SOL.  Ten acres is a postage stamp.  If you can't follow up onto the neighbors property, use a shotgun or a rifle. 

[tank21]

Everyone who has done a bit of bow killing has had that real quick kill. I shot a deer a few years ago at close range, quartering away, took out off side shoulder. That deer looked like it got hit with a 338 Lapua! Dropped in its tracks! That's not normal though. Normal is 50-200 yard recovery on a good shot. So I'd plan on that 200 yard buffer zone for a deer. Elk are even worse. Cows and spikes are herd bound animals. When in distress they will seek out other elk and in a hurry. Its nothing for a double lunged cow or spike to run 300+ yards. My last late season cow took off after a double lung hit and went every bit of 500 yards and died in the middle of a Boulder field.

As for head shots or neck shots with an arrow. NO! I'll say it again......NO!!!!! I'm sure someone will chime in with "I did it and it worked great", but the likelihood of doing it deliberately and successfully aren't high. Arrows don't kill like bullets.  You have to slice something that will make them die. I've seen more than a few animals with arrows sticking out of there faces and necks to believe anyone should be going for this shot. I put down a cow years ago in the nile that had an arrow in her eye socket as well as her neck. Guys finally showed up and regailed their story to me.  Low brisket shot at 105 yards, finally caught up to her and shot her in the neck at 25 yards. Face arrow came a few hrs later at 10 yards where they had found her jumbled up in a tree root hole. To this day it makes me sick.

This is good and why I did the post.  I would hate to see "my deer" running around with an arrow sticking out of its face.  That would be terrible.  My god word would travel fast on that one.  I just don't have enough experiences to lean on; hence you folks.  The shot would be close with plenty of opportunities/time to ensure the best shot possible, that said big cutting mechanical through the heart is probably the best shot to take.

[Jpmiller]

I still can't understand how but I had a spike whitetail several years back that I just about center punched his heart. Dumb thing ran about 300 yards. The following year I hit another whitetail through both lungs and it died on the full run in about fifty yards. I don't think there's a drop em on the spot every time archery shot.

[Karl Blanchard]

I still can't understand how but I had a spike whitetail several years back that I just about center punched his heart. Dumb thing ran about 300 yards. The following year I hit another whitetail through both lungs and it died on the full run in about fifty yards. I don't think there's a drop em on the spot every time archery shot.

  I can do you one better  I exploded the heart on a whitetail buck in ID years ago with 165gr ballistic tip. He took off on a sprint and I had to reposition for a follow up. By the time I got on him he was 350 yards away and was standing there looking back. I was pulling the slack out of the trigger when he just tipped over. I assumed it was a liver hit or something but when I went to dig out the heart it was in pieces  I honestly think its a whitetail thing. I've seen those river rats go a good distance before expiration.  Mule deer tend to give up a bit easier in my experiences.

[Bareback]

Hi all, newb here, been lurking for sometime and decided to join since there is a topic I may be able to provide some marginal advice on.

On Whidbey Island a group of us can hunt(it’s not hunting, it’s harvesting)20 acres, partially surrounded by houses. The property is half forrest, with half being cleared, and part of it backs up to 50 acres of timberland. As most know the island is infested with deer. There are 18 deer per square mile. Well, as noted by original poster, the high population of deer does a significant amount of damage. They eat everything, destroy gardens, rake havoc in orchards, in late August bucks destroy trees, shrubbery or anything to scrape the shedding velvet. Then at the beginning of October the rubs really start. Forget trying to plant any trees.

One of the stipulations to hunting this property is the deer must die on the property. Sure as heck don’t want some wounded deer bleeding profusely run and die in the new, anti-hunting neighbors yard from California.

We soon abandoned the idea of archery, sure we’ve had the lucky miss that jello-legged the deer and it dropped in it’s tracks but more often then not a good shot is retrieved some distance away. Our next option was shotgun(shotgun only GMU), we found that buck shot at 20 yards will knock a deer off it’s feet. At 30 yards we had Buck run off, never to be found, after taking 2 rounds of 3’’ 000 Behind the shoulder (yes, we tracked and searched for hours, but rain and waist high ferns is not your most ideal situation).

Finally we opted for a rifled barrel and a 325 gr sabot. Most die within 50 ft with a good shot to the boiler maker but last year we did have a nice buck go front straight legged and moon walk 30 ft. Only to straighten up, shake it off, and run like a bat-out-of-hell. We all thought after his dance he would tumble over, but heck no, we found him a 150 yards away. That shot ended getting both lungs near the bottom.

In all actuality there is no guarantee for a drop dead Shot/death. If I was in your situation, I would be in a ground blind, and would use buck shot for deer with no more than a 15 yrd shot. Elk, the nastiest slug you can find and shoot for the shoulder, you need to knock the animal down. A soft tissue shot is no guarantee. Max yardage, 25 yrds since you can’t miss your spot. Forget archery.

A lot of people are going to frown and state how unethical your are, I wouldn’t worry about it cause it’s harvesting. We, here on the island, are fortunate enough to have a fall back option when we don’t fill our tag on the east side. It puts meet in the freezer.

And a reminder, always know what’s behind your shot!

Good luck

[TheStovePipeKid]

Tree stand and spine shot.
You get to decide your ethics with the decision.

I would think that with a tree stand close to the animal the angle would negate the danger argument for rifle or slug.

[h20hunter]

Excellent post barebuck.

[Stein]

I was looking at a 20 acre parcel once and determined there was no way I could hunt that without having them run off and die off property.

If you can't use a firearm, the only other option I would consider is a crossbow which I think you can use during modern season but I'm not sure.  They are crazy accurate with a scope, 20 yards and you can get very reliable placement, but I would think it's a 75% chance of not going 100 yards.

I had a doe antelope take a 168 TSX which removed the top half of her heart, exit the other side and blow off the lower leg (slightly angled away and shooting downill.  She made it almost 80 yards with three legs and no heart.  They are tougher than deer, but it really can surprise a guy sometimes.

The other thing you have going against you is that I think animals at rest tend to go farther than ones that have just run from something else and are breathing hard.  I had a big raghorn elk run probably two miles and stop 80 yards from me and the same bullet as above in the lungs literally just tipped it over.

You can stack the deck in your favor, but I don't think you can get a high probability of what you want without a firearm.

[erk444]

Ive had the same experiences as above, some going down quickly while others make it a long way with the same shot. Ive always had a theory that it has to do with hitting them after they've inhaled or exhaled. Much like holding your breath under water. If they've inhaled just before the shot, it seems to me they can travel alot farther due to the oxygen levels in their blood stream??  Again, just a theory I've always had.

[npaull]

This is a pet subject of mine. I have a controversial (but correct!) opinion:

A *perfect* bowshot reliably drops a deer IN SIGHT or close enough to make no difference.
A *good* bowshot leaves a blood trail you have to follow.

The common misconception about bowhunting is that a "double lung" shot is "perfect." It's not. Double lung is good, NOT perfect.

What's perfect? Perfect is aortopulmonary transection - cutting the two great arteries off the top of the heart. No injury except decapitation is more immediately deadly.

How do you do it reliably? First, DON'T shoot for the crease. The "crease" is way, way too far back on a broadside deer (ok, just 5-6 inches, but that's what we're talking here). There's this bizarre idea among hunters that there's something besides the heart and great vessels at the very front of a deer's chest. There's not. The heart and great vessels really crowd the front. They have almost no brisket to speak of. If you miss by shooting too far forwards, you pretty much just miss the animal. To create aortopulmonary transection, your arrow should hit at the apex of the "V" formed by the humerus and scapula. As close to that vertex as possible. And that's much farther forward than most guys tend to shoot.

If you hit an ungulate at this point, it will die in sight. Every. Single. Time. If you're off by a little bit, it'll die fast.

The problem, of course, is that it's hard to be that stone-cold accurate with a bow. But it's still where I aim. And I generally don't blood-trail my animals.

The deer in my avatar was shot quartering-away (another much more reliable way to kill a deer fast than a broadside shot). The arrow entered in front of the last rib on the left and exited in front of the right shoulder. It hit the ground ten feet from the shot, two seconds later. It was not an accident.

[lokidog]

My only neck shot with a bow was a coup de gra ( sp? ) on an almost expired deer at 15 yards and was my only shot. I second the opinion...no neck and head shots with a bow unless absolutely required to end it, not start it.

Did that with an elk once. I liver hit her and was able to sneak up to about 35 yards but she was in tall grass and I could only see her neck. The arrow flew true and like a cartoon character it smacked the spine and her head just flopped over.  I would not do that on a healthy animal though.  Animals that have had no clue I was there have gone the least distance.

[browney5er]

I still can't understand how but I had a spike whitetail several years back that I just about center punched his heart. Dumb thing ran about 300 yards. The following year I hit another whitetail through both lungs and it died on the full run in about fifty yards. I don't think there's a drop em on the spot every time archery shot.

  I can do you one better  I exploded the heart on a whitetail buck in ID years ago with 165gr ballistic tip. He took off on a sprint and I had to reposition for a follow up. By the time I got on him he was 350 yards away and was standing there looking back. I was pulling the slack out of the trigger when he just tipped over. I assumed it was a liver hit or something but when I went to dig out the heart it was in pieces  I honestly think its a whitetail thing. I've seen those river rats go a good distance before expiration.  Mule deer tend to give up a bit easier in my experiences.

Sounds like you could use some gunsmithing on that trigger

[Karl Blanchard]

Thanks for the hot tip. My guns suck but im positive ill figure out how to kill something one of these days

[OutHouse]

Agree with the general comments that there is no guarantee especially with a bow. For example, this year got a heart shot on a white tail buck. The arrow did not pass completely through but was hanging out of the other side of the animal with just the fletchings still inside (basically a complete pass through). When it hit, the buck sort of twitched like it got stung by a bee and then ran down hill at an angle for about 50 yards then switched back also going down hill for another 50 or so yards, then stopped and tipped over.