Master Hunters VOICE LOUD AND CLEAR!!!

[billythekidrock]

Your still not addressing the discrimination of the program against 277.000 hunters.Hunting Federal land that everyone should be able to hunt.

They tried that and it didn't work.
It was open to everyone, but just like anything, a few bad apples ruined it.

[Kain]

First they have got to change the name as it is completely wrong and is misleading.  I am currently taking the course but I can understand how some of you guys feel about it.  The course is pretty involved.  I dont think its discrimination against anyone if you cant meet the requirements of the course.  It would be just like being in law enforcement or anything else that requires you to be able to pass a test or have a degree.  There are special hunting opportunities for physically and mentally disabled people I wouldn't call that discriminating against most hunters.

Do I think they should have taken hunting opportunities away from the regular hunting public? NO.  Do they seem to disguise real hunting opportunities as damage hunts, maybe.  Public land should be open to the PUBLIC for all recreational use.  But I also think that there should be some reward for those that do something extra.  Look at the guys that do the hunters ed classes, I think they deserve something extra for their time. 

The course is a good thing and I would encourage all of you to look into it.  We had a discussion a while back on what hunters can do to improve our image.  I think the more of us that put in this extra effort the better we will look as a whole.  If you have problems with parts of the program I would encourage you to let WDFW know what they are but I dont think you should attack the whole program.

Here is a picture of the study packet you have to read.  Some have passed the test without reading all this stuff but it is rare.

[Slider]

If these ARE damage hunt's why are they not COW ONLY!!! Anyone that purchases a Hunting license should have the SAME opportunity!!! IF a separate group of hunter's is needed for a Damage hunt? And I can think of ABSOLUTLY no reason why that would be needed? It should go to people with disabilities or to the kids!!! Oregon guaranties new hunters one tag!!! That's an AWESOME program!!!

[Kain]

So there should be no benefit for taking the master hunter course?  Volunteering is one of those things you can do just to feel good but you can do that without taking the course.
It would be cool if the MH could use the tag for their self or use it to take out a kid.  That would be sweet.  I think they should try to relocate some of these elk if they are such a pest.  I know of a lot of areas that are short on elk.  Would be good diversify the gene pool.

[Little Dave]

Okay, I'll try a few of these.

1. Hunting Federal land that everyone should be able to hunt.
2. Also isn't picking up the woods every outdoorsmans responsibility.
3. This is nothing but a free labor pool for the state to have the M H Volunteering, while they the WDFW do nothing and get paid with benefits from our tax dollars.
4. Last but not least when in the woods hunting you had better know the rules and regs or prepare to have the book thrown at you.

1.  It is probably better that the state manages the wildlife rather than the federal agency.  I do agree it would be a different hunting experience if everyone was able to hunt these federal lands.  Perhaps some areas would be favored over others causing new population management problems.

2. Yeah, picking up the trash is a minimum responsibility.  Removing burnt mobile homes, tire piles, and shot up appliances is a bit more work though.  It requires more planning.

3. I agree that this is a free labor pool.  I disagree that the biologists and wardens are sitting on their thumbs though.  It is possible that may be a degree of waste in the Olympia board rooms.  I believe it was Davy Crockett out of Tennessee who is among those responsible for establishing that state's motto as "The Volunteer State."  There's absolutely nothing wrong with performing volunteer work that must be done... particularly if it helps in some small way from needing to increase taxes to pay for hired people to do the work if that's what you are suggesting.  Who wants higher taxes or license fees anyway?

4. I agree that everybody should know the rules... and perhaps work within these constraints even when the warden isn't there to write tickets (as most already do).

[furbearer365]

All i know is that the extra hunting opportunities that are givin to these masters hunters, in my opinion does more negative on the animal herd than good.  I am not saying that they kill that many more animals, i am saying that simply hunting pressure for that many months out of the year is not good for them.  Since this program was is the newest, I think it should be the first to go when trying to come up with a way to save the animals.  I live in the middle of the Mt St Helens controversy on how to take care of the elk herds.  In my opinion the shortage of food is not the issue, it is simply the lifestyle we put on the herds.  They are actually hunted for 6 months out of the year with only a couple of weeks worth of a breaks within those months.  Give me a break, people have this wild idea that since "all i do is bow hunt or rifle hunt, but if you add all of the hunting styles plus hunting seasons and draw tags now the masters hunters seasons, that is a ton of chasing.  I am all for doing what it take to help the animals that walk this earth and i don't believe the master hunters program does any of that.  Billythekid rock, i believe that you need to do a little more investigation on this topic, read what RyanD wrote because it is true to the bone.  I think what you want the program to represent and what it brings about are two different things.

[bbarnes]

M H you still have not addressed the issue of hunting on Federal land,the program was set up for damage issues  and private property issues.It's turned into a reward program its unethical and theres no fair chase.I agree with furbearer 365 about the problem's at mt saint helen's it is overpursuit.The problems lie with The WDFW have they talked to the M H, about improving there image with the public.Let's talk a little biology i personally helped count the dead elk last year on the mud flow.The volunteers cut the femur bones looked in them,and then they would say yep they died of starvation.To me that left many unanswered questions #1 there were no predators eating these animals #2 The smelled funny #3 there were no skin,blood,urine,organ or any other samples taken.You would have thought there would be a toxicology test,taken with the timber company's spraying chemicals.Let's now talk law enforcement myself and many members of my group,have made countless trip over the last 3 years to Olimpia, to support them and try to get more dollars.Our volunteer hours are in the ten's of thousands,doing projects for the Forest Service the DNR and WDFW over the years.This was the right thing to do,and we certainly didn't need any reward or special privilege.Did i mention i spent out pocket over the last 2 years,over 10,000 dollars feeding the animals we all enjoy seeing and hunting.Still not asking for special privileges or extra hunting opportunity's.BBarnes keeping public lands public.

[rasbo]

M H you still have not addressed the issue of hunting on Federal land,the program was set up for damage issues  and private property issues.It's turned into a reward program its unethical and theres no fair chase.I agree with furbearer 365 about the problem's at mt saint helen's it is overpursuit.The problems lie with The WDFW have they talked to the M H, about improving there image with the public.Let's talk a little biology i personally helped count the dead elk last year on the mud flow.The volunteers cut the femur bones looked in them,and then they would say yep they died of starvation.To me that left many unanswered questions #1 there were no predators eating these animals #2 The smelled funny #3 there were no skin,blood,urine,organ or any other samples taken.You would have thought there would be a toxicology test,taken with the timber company's spraying chemicals.Let's now talk law enforcement myself and many members of my group,have made countless trip over the last 3 years to Olimpia, to support them and try to get more dollars.Our volunteer hours are in the ten's of thousands,doing projects for the Forest Service the DNR and WDFW over the years.This was the right thing to do,and we certainly didn't need any reward or special privilege.Did i mention i spent out pocket over the last 2 years,over 10,000 dollars feeding the animals we all enjoy seeing and hunting.Still not asking for special privileges or extra hunting opportunity's.BBarnes keeping public lands public.

good job barnes,big cudos on your work

[BrushChimp]

furbearer365, Check out the special permits under Hunt Name "Raymond." Tell me all the average hunters don't overhunt. It's not just the Master Hunters. Those Raymond units have been that way for years. This year they finally decreased the amount of permits given, but they still hunt those elk Sept-Feb. 28th.

I don't see anything wrong with the Master Hunter priveledges. If you want one of the tags, then put in the time and effort to become a "Master Hunter." Everyone has this opportunity.

Herbicides have not been proven to kill elk. However, they have been proven to kill the browse that elk like to eat.

[Ray]

I support the Master Hunter program. The name should be changed. I am glad there are rewards for giving back to the community. I do not know the intimate details of this area with regards to location of private and public property. I am aware that master hunters are often the good stewards of the hunting community. Usually it is the bad apples that get noticed and nothing good ever is mentioned. I agree with a lot of Kain's point of view.

[bbarnes]

Since i have been involved on this web site,and by the way IT'S A GREAT ONE i have tried to raise awareness.Also i have tried to let outdoorsman know of upcoming events things that are affecting our opportunity's and getting people engaged so our opportunity's aren't taken from us.The problem i see is united we stand and divided we fall.What I'm trying to say is opportunity is going away and no one wants to help out theres no team work or togetherness.Its iii or me me me well theres no i in team and
there will be opportunity,if we continue to look out only for our self's.You've got to think past yourself and include everyone else,my way of thinking is EVERYONE should have the same opportunities that i have had.The M H program should be like a eagle scout in the boy scouts, there no extras just a self satisfaction to you archived something that most thought couldn't be done.My hats off to the over achievers in life,that's something that i have personally chosen thoughout my life to be.In closing I'm still not and wont ever ask for opportunities over others because i choose to stand united BBarnes keeping public lands public.

[billythekidrock]

Let me get this straight.
You guys think that everyone should be able to hunt everywhere? I sure don't. Too many yahoos out there.

What about the areas that are on the bubble as far as being against the law to hunt? Wouldn't you rather have an opportunity to hunt then not hunt at all?

The Quinault AHE/MH unit is a great example. Lots of the "new" locals (ex parkies, greeners, etc) don't want hunting in the valley. Years ago you could kill an elk in any one's pasture, property, etc. Now you can't hardly find a place to hunt because of a few yahoos that take it too far.

If it weren't for the AHE/MH program the special interest groups would have their way and there would be no elk hunting in the valley.

Quit whining and try the program. I bet half of the complainers couldn't pass the course.

[Slider]

Quit whining and try the program. I bet half of the complainers couldn't pass the course.

Then why would this be a fair program?

[billythekidrock]

Quit whining and try the program. I bet half of the complainers couldn't pass the course.

Then why would this be a fair program?

It is fair in that anyone can sign up to try.

Why do we make people take a hunter education course to hunt? Wouldn't it be fair if everyone could just hunt?

[RyanD]

I don't have an issue with the program itself.  It needs to be used for it's purpose though.  The mission statement declares this program is for damage control and pop. control.   That is great but as stated above why isn't it for antless animals?  Why do we chase these animals for  5-6 months.  Is that ethical?

Quit whining and try the program. I bet half of the complainers couldn't pass the course

I really have no use for this program therfore I don't have any desire to pursue it.  I have seen firsthand the product of this program... I wouldn't be too worried.   

Now before everyone gets all fired up I know not everyone that goes through this program is the same.  I personally hunted with one of them on a MH hunt and the exact quote I heard was "I got to go fill my free Weyerheauser beef tag".  Wow great representation of the program...

I do congratulate everyone that completes the program but let me ask you this..   
Why did you go through the program?  Was is for the tag opportunities?  Was it to improve hunter image?  Just curios.