NW Sportsman: Washington 2020 Buck Prospects

[Bango skank]

After spending the last 24 days in the field, I can tell you he is way off base in central WA.   

I have never hunted so hard.....to see so few deer.

 ..Chelan and Okanogan Co. I think they need money, got to get folks to buy tags.

Some have suggested every other year Mule deer hunting. I was against it.   After my experiences this year........ I'm all on board, something needs to change.

Yeah something needs to change.  But taking away otc hunting wont change it.  Thatll just make fatter wolves and cats that have bigger litters.  I believe its to the point that taking away all hunting wont help, it will just slightly delay the collapse while temporarily benefitting predators.  We need more predator control period.  Advocating for taking away your own hunting rights wont solve a damn thing.

Got data to support the whinging about predators?

The problem in this state is too much private, unhuntable land. You want harvest numbers up? Increase taxes on private lands, with a method to adjust them down if they enter the PLHO program.


You want more yotes? Kill off wolves, cats, and bears. The coyote, country wide is a major problem and "sportsmen" whine about them, but oppose effective methods of bringing their numbers down. Because of baseless fears about other predator species. Wolves, bears, cats, not the problem here.

When do sportsmen oppose coyote management?  And if you dont think wolves cats and bears are a problem with our herd numbers i dont know what to say.  Maybe get out in the woods more.  Idaho has done multiple studies where they purposefully reduced bear and lion populations in areas with shrinking deer and elk herds and terrible fawn / calf recruitment and low snd behold, herds began to recover.  When they stopped culling cats snd bears, herds went to *censored* sgain.  You dont know what youre taking about.

[JimmyHoffa]

After spending the last 24 days in the field, I can tell you he is way off base in central WA.   

I have never hunted so hard.....to see so few deer.

 ..Chelan and Okanogan Co. I think they need money, got to get folks to buy tags.

Some have suggested every other year Mule deer hunting. I was against it.   After my experiences this year........ I'm all on board, something needs to change.

Yeah something needs to change.  But taking away otc hunting wont change it.  Thatll just make fatter wolves and cats that have bigger litters.  I believe its to the point that taking away all hunting wont help, it will just slightly delay the collapse while temporarily benefitting predators.  We need more predator control period.  Advocating for taking away your own hunting rights wont solve a damn thing.

Got data to support the whinging about predators?

The problem in this state is too much private, unhuntable land. You want harvest numbers up? Increase taxes on private lands, with a method to adjust them down if they enter the PLHO program.


You want more yotes? Kill off wolves, cats, and bears. The coyote, country wide is a major problem and "sportsmen" whine about them, but oppose effective methods of bringing their numbers down. Because of baseless fears about other predator species. Wolves, bears, cats, not the problem here.

Not 'data' just what I've seen.  I go on a private land tree farm that culls bears with hounds to prevent tree damage.  Hardly any bear sign at all, but the numbers of deer just amaze me.  The nearby DNR land is the inverse--bears but few deer.

[huntnphool]

After spending the last 24 days in the field, I can tell you he is way off base in central WA.   

I have never hunted so hard.....to see so few deer.

 ..Chelan and Okanogan Co. I think they need money, got to get folks to buy tags.

Some have suggested every other year Mule deer hunting. I was against it.   After my experiences this year........ I'm all on board, something needs to change.

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,86231.msg1080089.html#msg1080089

[Caz]

This nesting is getting ridiculous, time to clean it up.

When do sportsmen oppose coyote management? 

When they complain about big predators. The ones that would keep the yotes down without us having to go out and waste some good ammo on clean up that should be going to trophy species. I'm out in the woods plenty, here, CA, MA, MT, NV, AZ over the last 30 years. Thanks for the "suggestion." Frankly, you don't know what you're talking about. You take an environment, upend and unbalance it due to fearful warbling from various economic groups (ranchers and farmers) which lets second tier predator populations to explode, which causes people to whine about them and what they do to the populations we want to stay strong. Fix the imbalance, and herds will strengthen and reach their appropriate carrying capacity in a region.

If that carrying capacity is not to your liking, improve the lands available to the herd(s) or expand them. A handful of wolves and a couple of meow meows aren't going to do anything impressive, but they do get people fearful and churlish pretty quickly, because mythology is strong.

Not 'data' just what I've seen.  I go on a private land tree farm that culls bears with hounds to prevent tree damage.  Hardly any bear sign at all, but the numbers of deer just amaze me.  The nearby DNR land is the inverse--bears but few deer.

Anecdotally, I can tell you that black bears cause massive population problems in MA for a similar reason, but that's because I'm just one set of experiences. I have a private land I hunt yotes on as a favor to the farmer, because his land abuts some land I lease, and the yotes are screwing up my duck ponds. As I kill the coyotes, the bear sign on my property goes down, and the deer sign increases.

It's a problem I've seen in every state I've been in, coyote populations are too large, and too little is being done about it.

[Caz]

I love that idea phool and heres an ad on....If WDFW was concerned with decreased revenue because they would be loosing half their tag sales, I for one would be interested in a compromise, I would be willing to pay twice the amount every other year for my mule deer tag IF, IF they would aggressively tackle the predator issue and reduce wolf, bear and cat numbers by half. Its a win for everybody, game herds increase, better quantity and quality for hunters, WDFW probably bring in even more money in the long run, give a little, take a little. It just can't be we as hunters giving everything....my

I've got an idea I'd be curious your opinion on, wrt WDFW revenues.

You, me, the rest of us here buy our hunting and fishing licenses, which goes to take care of the land that we utilize. Yet, the REI and Big 5 crowd does not. So, two thoughts:
1. Require a fishing or hunting license to access state lands for recreation.
2. Expand Pittman-Robertson to include everything at REI.

[Bango skank]

This nesting is getting ridiculous, time to clean it up.

When do sportsmen oppose coyote management? 

When they complain about big predators. The ones that would keep the yotes down without us having to go out and waste some good ammo on clean up that should be going to trophy species. I'm out in the woods plenty, here, CA, MA, MT, NV, AZ over the last 30 years. Thanks for the "suggestion." Frankly, you don't know what you're talking about. You take an environment, upend and unbalance it due to fearful warbling from various economic groups (ranchers and farmers) which lets second tier predator populations to explode, which causes people to whine about them and what they do to the populations we want to stay strong. Fix the imbalance, and herds will strengthen and reach their appropriate carrying capacity in a region.

If that carrying capacity is not to your liking, improve the lands available to the herd(s) or expand them. A handful of wolves and a couple of meow meows aren't going to do anything impressive, but they do get people fearful and churlish pretty quickly, because mythology is strong.

Not 'data' just what I've seen.  I go on a private land tree farm that culls bears with hounds to prevent tree damage.  Hardly any bear sign at all, but the numbers of deer just amaze me.  The nearby DNR land is the inverse--bears but few deer.

Anecdotally, I can tell you that black bears cause massive population problems in MA for a similar reason, but that's because I'm just one set of experiences. I have a private land I hunt yotes on as a favor to the farmer, because his land abuts some land I lease, and the yotes are screwing up my duck ponds. As I kill the coyotes, the bear sign on my property goes down, and the deer sign increases.

It's a problem I've seen in every state I've been in, coyote populations are too large, and too little is being done about it.

So let me get this straight.  Large predators keep coyote populations down, but not deer populations?  Funny, everywhere i go with high lion bear and wolf numbers is still crawling with coyotes.

Improve the lands available to the herds?  We have tons of excellent habitat with very low herd numbers.

A handful of meow meows?  There are thousands of lions in this state.  They need to eat about a deer a week.

The only way to even begin controlling coyotes is with leg hold trapping.  Its not sportsmen opposing that.

[NOCK NOCK]

@Caz

Here's what your "Meow Meows" do in WA St.

Kill 2 pregnant does on the same night, bury them, then come back the next night to eat the unborn fawns, while leaving the does pretty much un-eaten.
I found these kills the very next morning and put cams on them. After the next 2 consecutive nights, the Cat never came back. Total kill was 2 does & 3 fawns.

[buckfvr]

Spokane via where ?

[Bango skank]

Spokane via where ?

Huh?

Hes asking where dingus moved to spokane from

[NOCK NOCK]

IMHO, cougars are at the top of the list when it comes to the cause of the demise of our mule deer herds, I have been singing that song for years now, yes, bears and wolves are an issue also and even coyotes but cats are out of control, can't count how many cached kills I have found in the Methow in the last 11 months, dozens and dozens. One cougar=50 to 60 dead deer per year. The Methow is overrun with cats, we all have cougar tags this year.

I mostly agree with this, but IMHO people are at the top of this list. 

#1 we need to slow down human predators. No more multi seasons/weapons (way to much pressure on critters), Reduced archery doe killing, not so late of modern deer seasons for muleys, poaching, native overharvest, etc etc.

[Bango skank]

IMHO, cougars are at the top of the list when it comes to the cause of the demise of our mule deer herds, I have been singing that song for years now, yes, bears and wolves are an issue also and even coyotes but cats are out of control, can't count how many cached kills I have found in the Methow in the last 11 months, dozens and dozens. One cougar=50 to 60 dead deer per year. The Methow is overrun with cats, we all have cougar tags this year.

I mostly agree with this, but IMHO people are at the top of this list. 

#1 we need to slow down human predators. No more multi seasons/weapons (way to much pressure on critters), Reduced archery doe killing, not so late of modern deer seasons for muleys, poaching, native overharvest, etc etc.

About 28k deer taken by licensed hunters last year.  3000 (minimum) adult lions in the state taking 60 (conservatively) deer per year each is 180k deer killed by lions.  So how are hunters at the top of the list?  Our lion situation is not sustainable.

Estimated 30k bears in wa is what ive read.  If each killed only one fawn per year, then bear depredation is equivalent to licensed hunters.

Now add in wolves and coyotes.  We have a problem.

[10thmountainarcher]

IMHO, cougars are at the top of the list when it comes to the cause of the demise of our mule deer herds, I have been singing that song for years now, yes, bears and wolves are an issue also and even coyotes but cats are out of control, can't count how many cached kills I have found in the Methow in the last 11 months, dozens and dozens. One cougar=50 to 60 dead deer per year. The Methow is overrun with cats, we all have cougar tags this year.

I mostly agree with this, but IMHO people are at the top of this list. 

#1 we need to slow down human predators. No more multi seasons/weapons (way to much pressure on critters), Reduced archery doe killing, not so late of modern deer seasons for muleys, poaching, native overharvest, etc etc.

About 28k deer taken by licensed hunters last year.  3000 (minimum) adult lions in the state taking 60 (conservatively) deer per year each is 180k deer killed by lions.  So how are hunters at the top of the list?  Our lion situation is not sustainable.

Estimated 30k bears in wa is what ive read.  If each killed only one fawn per year, then bear depredation is equivalent to licensed hunters.

Now add in wolves and coyotes.  We have a problem.

  Bango is spot on, the predator issue in this state is the number one reason our herds are the way they are.

[buckfvr]

IMHO, cougars are at the top of the list when it comes to the cause of the demise of our mule deer herds, I have been singing that song for years now, yes, bears and wolves are an issue also and even coyotes but cats are out of control, can't count how many cached kills I have found in the Methow in the last 11 months, dozens and dozens. One cougar=50 to 60 dead deer per year. The Methow is overrun with cats, we all have cougar tags this year.

I mostly agree with this, but IMHO people are at the top of this list. 

#1 we need to slow down human predators. No more multi seasons/weapons (way to much pressure on critters), Reduced archery doe killing, not so late of modern deer seasons for muleys, poaching, native overharvest, etc etc.

For all of you guys who feel you are the problem, go ahead and voluntarily cut back your participation and allow that to be an individual decision.  Dont give stuff away for others that you know not what their impact is or isnt.  I know many guys who get multi-season and still VOLUNTARILY eat their tag, so do what you think is best for you and leave others alone.

[hunter100]

I'm a long time lurker and I thought I would share my input bow hunting 272 and 136 this year. Mainly west of Ephrata and north of Marlin. I hiked over 18 state land chunks and huge chunks of BLM land. My goal was to explore and cover miles. I have high quality optics and know how to glass. My typical day was a few does and a occasional young or poor genetic buck. I saw a few bucks that were legal but none that were what I would call a true wall hanger. It was so bad that I got to the point I would almost feel bad taking a mature bucks genetics out of the area. I'm sure there is a few on private but areas like the Palisades seem almost devoid of any resident deer. It's sad really. I had a chance at a heavy 3x3 and was within 30 yards but he was bedded weird and busted when I tried to get in a better position. That's it. Again I spent a lot of time and hunted hard. I never slept in and was out often in the dark. This is what I found putting boots on the ground. We need some serious changes.

[Slamadoo]

"For all of you guys who feel you are the problem, go ahead and voluntarily cut back your participation and allow that to be an individual decision.  Don't give stuff away for others that you know not what their impact is or isnt.  I know many guys who get multi-season and still VOLUNTARILY eat their tag, so do what you think is best for you and leave others alone."

 

Couldn't have said it better. I believe any sportsman who is a proponent of permit only Mule Deer hunting, or every other year hunting, or cutting any kind of opportunity for other user groups should think long and hard about what they are supporting. You flat out will not get those opportunities back once they are gone. Nothing stopping anyone from practicing self-restraint where they see fit, but we should not be limiting opportunities for any of us where it is not absolutely necessary.

Anyone arguing that hunters are the problem in this state is 100% wrong. We are the #1 advocate for these deer.