Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?

[BULLBLASTER]

This is really the same argument for every platform... big picture time.
Look at archery... not even going to discuss a single advancement, but when I started   40 yards was far, now 90yds isn't uncommon.

Modern.... 15 years ago 400yds was pushing "ethical", I'll go shoot 900 now and if I I don't shoot MOA, I am pissed.

When I started muzzleloader, Knight was new and everyone was screaming that it wasn't "primitive".   Every time there is an advancement in anything, there are always a bunch of guys going insane screaming that its the end of the world....

 Should it stop??   Maybe.... but it's not going to.

Yep there was a day there weren’t scopes on rifles or compound bows but muzzleloading isn’t allowed to have  advancements.

  except sabots, jacketed bullets, fiber optics, 209s, inlines, pelletized powder, magnum charged etc... 

Johnathan I get it And yes they have had technology advancements. I wasn’t trying to say they haven’t. I was pointing out more of the fact that everyone freaks out when it comes to one of these proposed changes especially for a method they do not even use. All the while forgetting that they have had the luxury of improvements and reap the rewards of but get very territorial If another method seeks improvements. 

Probably should have ended that with a ? mark to emphasize that!

The alternative being what... a free for all? If we don't want what Utah has which is zero regulation and basically just another rifle season, then lines have to be drawn somewhere. Scopes or no scopes is a very logical place to draw a line to keep things somewhat "primitive"

A 1x is hardly a free for all

I dont think it would be unreasonable to expect within the next couple years to hear the argument that there isnt any or very few 1x scopes on the market and wdfw allows scopes so we should be able to use what is available.

[BreezyBear]

I emailed Vortex last week about this, they responded that they would be happy to produce a 1x scope if needed.

[Jonathan_S]

This is really the same argument for every platform... big picture time.
Look at archery... not even going to discuss a single advancement, but when I started   40 yards was far, now 90yds isn't uncommon.

Modern.... 15 years ago 400yds was pushing "ethical", I'll go shoot 900 now and if I I don't shoot MOA, I am pissed.

When I started muzzleloader, Knight was new and everyone was screaming that it wasn't "primitive".   Every time there is an advancement in anything, there are always a bunch of guys going insane screaming that its the end of the world....

 Should it stop??   Maybe.... but it's not going to.

Yep there was a day there weren’t scopes on rifles or compound bows but muzzleloading isn’t allowed to have  advancements.

  except sabots, jacketed bullets, fiber optics, 209s, inlines, pelletized powder, magnum charged etc... 

Johnathan I get it And yes they have had technology advancements. I wasn’t trying to say they haven’t. I was pointing out more of the fact that everyone freaks out when it comes to one of these proposed changes especially for a method they do not even use. All the while forgetting that they have had the luxury of improvements and reap the rewards of but get very territorial If another method seeks improvements. 

Probably should have ended that with a ? mark to emphasize that!

I'm basically a curmudgeon on every proposed advancement for archery and muzzleloader  One thing a scope is nice on a muzzleloader for is load development. Really helps 

[pd]

I emailed Vortex last week about this, they responded that they would be happy to produce a 1x scope if needed.

Well, of course they would be happy to do this.  Think about it: A 1x scope is basically an aluminum tube with a piece of glass at either end.  Can you think of an easier product to manufacture?  No adjustments necessary, no grinding of glass, etc.

[dilleytech]

This is really the same argument for every platform... big picture time.
Look at archery... not even going to discuss a single advancement, but when I started   40 yards was far, now 90yds isn't uncommon.

Modern.... 15 years ago 400yds was pushing "ethical", I'll go shoot 900 now and if I I don't shoot MOA, I am pissed.

When I started muzzleloader, Knight was new and everyone was screaming that it wasn't "primitive".   Every time there is an advancement in anything, there are always a bunch of guys going insane screaming that its the end of the world....

 Should it stop??   Maybe.... but it's not going to.

Yep there was a day there weren’t scopes on rifles or compound bows but muzzleloading isn’t allowed to have  advancements.

  except sabots, jacketed bullets, fiber optics, 209s, inlines, pelletized powder, magnum charged etc... 

Johnathan I get it And yes they have had technology advancements. I wasn’t trying to say they haven’t. I was pointing out more of the fact that everyone freaks out when it comes to one of these proposed changes especially for a method they do not even use. All the while forgetting that they have had the luxury of improvements and reap the rewards of but get very territorial If another method seeks improvements. 

Probably should have ended that with a ? mark to emphasize that!

The alternative being what... a free for all? If we don't want what Utah has which is zero regulation and basically just another rifle season, then lines have to be drawn somewhere. Scopes or no scopes is a very logical place to draw a line to keep things somewhat "primitive"

A 1x is hardly a free for all

Have you never heard of the term death by a thousand cuts? This year it’s 1x.. muzzys are basically a rifle at this point anyway. Open sites are the only thing keeping it kinda primitive. I can’t wait for the 3 day early muzzy season..

[M_ray]

Didn’t take long for the sky to fall again 

[full choke]

Didn’t take long for the sky to fall again 

I guess I didn't realize our elk and deer herds were in such good shape that we should be expanding the tools allowed to hunt them in a primitive weapon season.

That is good news. Maybe, if we are really just trying to make things a little easier for some, we should just open up the regulations. Cows, any bull, whatever. Cut the season length and open'r up. I mean, as I get older, walking those steep slopes is getting harder- 7 days really wears on a guy. Maybe we should allow motorized vehicles too. It is only fair- the advancements in bicycles should not be disregarded either.

And I realize that sounds stupid and far fetched- but so does waterproof inline scoped muzzleloaders in a "primitive" weapon season.

[Guardhair]

  I was just looking thru the 2020 hunting pamphlet for some phone numbers I’d written down and I was curious if the term “primitive” was used in the muzzleloader section or the archery section. I couldn’t find it but I didn’t spend a lot of time looking on each page. A few years ago I was asked by a wildlife biologist what I thought was the most challenging thing about hunting in Washington. I told him it was keeping up with the ever changing rules and regulations!

[M_ray]

This is really the same argument for every platform... big picture time.
Look at archery... not even going to discuss a single advancement, but when I started   40 yards was far, now 90yds isn't uncommon.

Modern.... 15 years ago 400yds was pushing "ethical", I'll go shoot 900 now and if I I don't shoot MOA, I am pissed.

When I started muzzleloader, Knight was new and everyone was screaming that it wasn't "primitive".   Every time there is an advancement in anything, there are always a bunch of guys going insane screaming that its the end of the world....

 Should it stop??   Maybe.... but it's not going to.

Yep there was a day there weren’t scopes on rifles or compound bows but muzzleloading isn’t allowed to have  advancements.

  except sabots, jacketed bullets, fiber optics, 209s, inlines, pelletized powder, magnum charged etc... 

Johnathan I get it And yes they have had technology advancements. I wasn’t trying to say they haven’t. I was pointing out more of the fact that everyone freaks out when it comes to one of these proposed changes especially for a method they do not even use. All the while forgetting that they have had the luxury of improvements and reap the rewards of but get very territorial If another method seeks improvements. 

Probably should have ended that with a ? mark to emphasize that!

The alternative being what... a free for all? If we don't want what Utah has which is zero regulation and basically just another rifle season, then lines have to be drawn somewhere. Scopes or no scopes is a very logical place to draw a line to keep things somewhat "primitive"

A 1x is hardly a free for all

I dont think it would be unreasonable to expect within the next couple years to hear the argument that there isnt any or very few 1x scopes on the market and wdfw allows scopes so we should be able to use what is available.

Sounds like you have answered the question I asked earlier? Are you guys just afraid A 1x will be the gateway to variable magnification scopes?

[M_ray]

Didn’t take long for the sky to fall again 

I guess I didn't realize our elk and deer herds were in such good shape that we should be expanding the tools allowed to hunt them in a primitive weapon season.

That is good news. Maybe, if we are really just trying to make things a little easier for some, we should just open up the regulations. Cows, any bull, whatever. Cut the season length and open'r up. I mean, as I get older, walking those steep slopes is getting harder- 7 days really wears on a guy. Maybe we should allow motorized vehicles too. It is only fair- the advancements in bicycles should not be disregarded either.

And I realize that sounds stupid and far fetched- but so does waterproof inline scoped muzzleloaders in a "primitive" weapon season.

Well we can agree on one thing, yes your comment sounds stupid and far fetched because at the moment the only thing on the table is a 1x scope NOT all that other nonsense.

[full choke]

Didn’t take long for the sky to fall again 

I guess I didn't realize our elk and deer herds were in such good shape that we should be expanding the tools allowed to hunt them in a primitive weapon season.

That is good news. Maybe, if we are really just trying to make things a little easier for some, we should just open up the regulations. Cows, any bull, whatever. Cut the season length and open'r up. I mean, as I get older, walking those steep slopes is getting harder- 7 days really wears on a guy. Maybe we should allow motorized vehicles too. It is only fair- the advancements in bicycles should not be disregarded either.

And I realize that sounds stupid and far fetched- but so does waterproof inline scoped muzzleloaders in a "primitive" weapon season.

Well we can agree on one thing, yes your comment sounds stupid and far fetched because at the moment the only thing on the table is a 1x scope NOT all that other nonsense.

Actually, what is on the table, is feel good policy changes.

[BULLBLASTER]

This is really the same argument for every platform... big picture time.
Look at archery... not even going to discuss a single advancement, but when I started   40 yards was far, now 90yds isn't uncommon.

Modern.... 15 years ago 400yds was pushing "ethical", I'll go shoot 900 now and if I I don't shoot MOA, I am pissed.

When I started muzzleloader, Knight was new and everyone was screaming that it wasn't "primitive".   Every time there is an advancement in anything, there are always a bunch of guys going insane screaming that its the end of the world....

 Should it stop??   Maybe.... but it's not going to.

Yep there was a day there weren’t scopes on rifles or compound bows but muzzleloading isn’t allowed to have  advancements.

  except sabots, jacketed bullets, fiber optics, 209s, inlines, pelletized powder, magnum charged etc... 

Johnathan I get it And yes they have had technology advancements. I wasn’t trying to say they haven’t. I was pointing out more of the fact that everyone freaks out when it comes to one of these proposed changes especially for a method they do not even use. All the while forgetting that they have had the luxury of improvements and reap the rewards of but get very territorial If another method seeks improvements. 

Probably should have ended that with a ? mark to emphasize that!

The alternative being what... a free for all? If we don't want what Utah has which is zero regulation and basically just another rifle season, then lines have to be drawn somewhere. Scopes or no scopes is a very logical place to draw a line to keep things somewhat "primitive"

A 1x is hardly a free for all

I dont think it would be unreasonable to expect within the next couple years to hear the argument that there isnt any or very few 1x scopes on the market and wdfw allows scopes so we should be able to use what is available.

Sounds like you have answered the question I asked earlier? Are you guys just afraid A 1x will be the gateway to variable magnification scopes?

Read post #249 for my opinion...

I just added this piece as a side thought that the 1x could potentially be a slippery slope

[huntingfool7]

  I was just looking thru the 2020 hunting pamphlet for some phone numbers I’d written down and I was curious if the term “primitive” was used in the muzzleloader section or the archery section. I couldn’t find it but I didn’t spend a lot of time looking on each page. A few years ago I was asked by a wildlife biologist what I thought was the most challenging thing about hunting in Washington. I told him it was keeping up with the ever changing rules and regulations!

Too much time spent in meetings...need to show that something is getting done!

[Bob33]

Could 1x be a slippery slope?

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-08/equipmentproposals_public_0.pdf

[JimmyHoffa]

Didn’t take long for the sky to fall again 

I guess I didn't realize our elk and deer herds were in such good shape that we should be expanding the tools allowed to hunt them in a primitive weapon season.

That is good news. Maybe, if we are really just trying to make things a little easier for some, we should just open up the regulations. Cows, any bull, whatever. Cut the season length and open'r up. I mean, as I get older, walking those steep slopes is getting harder- 7 days really wears on a guy. Maybe we should allow motorized vehicles too. It is only fair- the advancements in bicycles should not be disregarded either.

And I realize that sounds stupid and far fetched- but so does waterproof inline scoped muzzleloaders in a "primitive" weapon season.

For elk, I think your point makes more sense.  If people move from modern (November to early October) over to early muzzy, it might have a bit more impact on harvest.  If deer hunters are moving modern to muzzy (late Oct over to late Sept/early Oct) I'd guess that harvest might drop.  Not sure late season harvest would make much difference.  Just my opinion for Westside.