Less mountain goat tags coming?

[jackelope]

This makes very little sense if you're me.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2021-02/ots-28751_0.pdf

1 less Naches Pass tag. 1 less Bumping River tag. 1 less Goat Rocks West tag. The Goat Rocks one is the one that makes zero sense to me at all. There are tons of goats there. I'm not the most educated goat guy on the planet, so maybe there's something I'm missing.





Also I noticed the proposal mentions "who may apply." The way I read this is if you've killed a goat here in WA, you're done. Even if it was a raffle or auction tag. This has never been the case before, and there is no proposed change to the other OIL species in this regard....so why mountain goat?




I have no dog in this fight in terms of tags for me. I've already got mine. Just trying to see the logic in these changes.

@Bushcraft

[Stein]

Hard to say, tinfoil hat me says it might be something to be doing something to use in a presentation to a certain audience somewhere of examples of the department actively managing and cutting back on hunting.

When they make cuts in tags that will end up in noticeable less revenue, that's when you know they are serious.  This is isn't that case, still plenty of $13 opportunities to sell.

[jackelope]

PS you can read, comment, etc on all the proposals here. I'm not sure these proposals are actually "proposals" as it seems like these things are usually already set and the public input period is just for fluff...

https://publicinput.com/R7743

[jackelope]

Hard to say, tinfoil hat me says it might be something to be doing something to use in a presentation to a certain audience somewhere of examples of the department actively managing and cutting back on hunting.

When they make cuts in tags that will end up in noticeable less revenue, that's when you know they are serious.  This is isn't that case, still plenty of $13 opportunities to sell.

Those 3 tags are $1000 a year.
Chump change maybe in the grand scheme of things.

[Houndhunter]

No reason the goat rocks shouldn't have at least 10 tags available, I wrote my concerns about that in the comment section. I can't say anything about the other units as I'm unfamiliar with them.

[Tbar]

Isn't it just cleaning up the language? In the underlined portion it states the restrictions are waived. Looks like a reduction in redundant language.

[fishngamereaper]

The tag reduction make no sense. I know naches could handle at least 4-5 tags, same with goat rock's/ east and west.

The way I read the second part is you can still apply if you've had a conflict, raffle or auction tag. Maybe Im seeing it different.

The head scratcher is it doesn't appear the transplanted goats from the olympics are going to have any affect on opportunities in the cascades...

[Tbar]

Still an exclusive on blazed ridge as well?

[jackelope]

Isn't it just cleaning up the language? In the underlined portion it states the restrictions are waived. Looks like a reduction in redundant language.

I may be reading it wrong, but I think the new proposal says that if you've killed a goat with a raffle or auction tag, you will no longer be able to apply for a normal OIL goat permit moving forward. That's never been the case before. Your special permit is your OIL and having a raffle or auction tag had no bearing on whether or not you can apply for the "normal" OIL permits. The language has not changed with moose or sheep auction/raffle tags.

[jackelope]

Still an exclusive on blazed ridge as well?

Yeah...I was wondering if that was going to change.

[fishngamereaper]

Still an exclusive on blazed ridge as well?

That's the tag I always used to want....

Still do if they ever offer it again...no reason not to have a couple tags in there.

[Stein]

Yeah, the real money is in the $13 applications which they sold about 13,400 last year.  I can't remember how many units you can apply for on one permit, 3?  Say the average across the board is 3 units per application, that's almost $140k in special permit application revenue for goats.

If you look at what happens across the board with big game, they almost never go to 0 tags for anything in an area because that would mean a big loss in permit applications.

They will fight for stuff like spring bear because it's a significant revenue stream that was under attack - proposals to shut it down would be significant revenue loss.

Other fights or problems like tags dropping 75% aren't addressed because it it's revenue neutral to the department and not a cute animal, same number of people buying the special permit applications and they already bought their deer or elk tag.

[JimmyHoffa]

The tag reduction make no sense. I know naches could handle at least 4-5 tags, same with goat rock's/ east and west.

The way I read the second part is you can still apply if you've had a conflict, raffle or auction tag. Maybe Im seeing it different.

The head scratcher is it doesn't appear the transplanted goats from the olympics are going to have any affect on opportunities in the cascades...

Probably some study requirement that has to be met first.  I haven't heard of one, but wouldn't be surprised if there is some bio or grad students that have something going on that will follow the goats over a specified number of years.

[storyteller]

Things have really changed over the years, I am lucky I got my goat in the 70's, back when you could go to active areas around tupso pass, mt liberty , mt ditney, (I think it was area 10 at the time) the year I got mine, a young fellow never came back from hunting, there was a sign put up for him stating what he was  wearing and had with him.  To my knowledge, he has never been found.  Game dept was concerned back then that the old billies were dying off in time and the majority of goat being harvested were young ones.    You could hunt the area as a one day hunt, I think the game dept thinks that was too easy.

[Moe the Sleaze]

Without being able to get too specific, I do remember seeing a couple of studies over the last couple of years where WDFW biologists have discovered that goat populations are VERY susceptible to over-hunting, (ie slow to recover after any sort of harvest) because of low reproductive rates. Based on their reports, the tag reductions are not a surprise to me. Do I agree with them, no. I'm a climber and I see goats all the time. For example, why they don't have multiple tags for the Enchantments is beyond reason IMO.