Less mountain goat tags coming?

[Tbar]

Without being able to get too specific, I do remember seeing a couple of studies over the last couple of years where WDFW biologists have discovered that goat populations are VERY susceptible to over-hunting, (ie slow to recover after any sort of harvest) because of low reproductive rates. Based on their reports, the tag reductions are not a surprise to me. Do I agree with them, no. I'm a climber and I see goats all the time. For example, why they don't have multiple tags for the Enchantments is beyond reason IMO.

Did it specifically say over hunting? Or predation? It's very frustrating to see that language used in the current scheme, in years past when they managed similar to deer it was fitting. The current human caused mortality pales in comparison to other factors that influence population dynamics. And yes they have low reproduction rates. 

[Skyvalhunter]

Well I personally wouldn't want to have goat hunting in the Enchantments. Those goats are so tame and there is absolutely way too many people there. I think they need to relocate some of them to an area where they can be hunted. Back in the Early 2000's I believe the some of the goat population had some virus or worm I forget what it was. I think the could have put medication on or in a salt block and stopped it but they never did. Have you ever seen them group up in the fall when its breeding time? I saw 25 goats in the GPW in one 100 yard area.

[Mtnwalker]

Sad to live in a state where the goal is to offer bare minimum opportunity to appease their obligations. Goats are ridiculously under hunted in WA compared to other states with similar populations. 

[Moe the Sleaze]

Without being able to get too specific, I do remember seeing a couple of studies over the last couple of years where WDFW biologists have discovered that goat populations are VERY susceptible to over-hunting, (ie slow to recover after any sort of harvest) because of low reproductive rates. Based on their reports, the tag reductions are not a surprise to me. Do I agree with them, no. I'm a climber and I see goats all the time. For example, why they don't have multiple tags for the Enchantments is beyond reason IMO.

Did it specifically say over hunting? Or predation? It's very frustrating to see that language used in the current scheme, in years past when they managed similar to deer it was fitting. The current human caused mortality pales in comparison to other factors that influence population dynamics. And yes they have low reproduction rates. 

I don't remember any mention of predation. I definitely remember the phrase "susceptible to over-hunting".

[Tbar]

Without being able to get too specific, I do remember seeing a couple of studies over the last couple of years where WDFW biologists have discovered that goat populations are VERY susceptible to over-hunting, (ie slow to recover after any sort of harvest) because of low reproductive rates. Based on their reports, the tag reductions are not a surprise to me. Do I agree with them, no. I'm a climber and I see goats all the time. For example, why they don't have multiple tags for the Enchantments is beyond reason IMO.

Did it specifically say over hunting? Or predation? It's very frustrating to see that language used in the current scheme, in years past when they managed similar to deer it was fitting. The current human caused mortality pales in comparison to other factors that influence population dynamics. And yes they have low reproduction rates. 

I don't remember any mention of predation. I definitely remember the phrase "susceptible to over-hunting".

I would be curious to know if that was a historic reference or referring to the current harvest levels. Historically over hunting decimated populations, but the tag numbers were several hundred statewide. Right now a single cat will likely kill more than the statewide allocation.

[HighCountryHunter88]

my guess is one of two this happening, 1 is they are seeing the nanny population in the Goat R take a bit of a nose dive which is a big deal, they could also be working off of a really low kid survival rate from a few yeas back. The other thing is public pressure against killing goats in there considering how popular the west GR are. most people who have that tag kill one off of the most popular trail up there..

[Skyvalhunter]

 Per WDFW Mountain goat populations have declined overall in Washington relative to estimated historical levels. Goat populations within the state were considered to have exceeded 10,000 animals (including those within federally-managed areas) as recently as 1961. As of 2008, our best estimate of the mountain goat population is the 2,400 to 3,200 range.  Of these, about 450 live primarily within national parks..

[Mtnwalker]

Per WDFW Mountain goat populations have declined overall in Washington relative to estimated historical levels. Goat populations within the state were considered to have exceeded 10,000 animals (including those within federally-managed areas) as recently as 1961. As of 2008, our best estimate of the mountain goat population is the 2,400 to 3,200 range.  Of these, about 450 live primarily within national parks..

I'd guess there's a pretty strong correlation between that timeline and certain predator control methods that are no longer employed

[Platensek-po]

https://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/animals/mammal/oram/all.html

Interesting facts in this link. Has info on all the states but some interesting stuff on mortality in wa and other states

[MtnMuley]

Does anybody on here believe that there is even a bio at WDFW capable of honestly knowing the true goat populations in specific GMUs here? I know of a few places they have absolutely no clue on how many goats actually exist there.

Also, what would possibly be the reasoning on not allowing an auction or raffle winner to ever be able to hunt goats again here once they've killed one? I thought these auction and raffles tags were about bringing money in and not dictating who can and can't play?

[Naches Sportsman]

Does anybody on here believe that there is even a bio at WDFW capable of honestly knowing the true goat populations in specific GMUs here? I know of a few places they have absolutely no clue on how many goats actually exist there.

I've tried to start conversations with some about areas the goats winter in and they were dumbfounded when I said i saw goats in certain places.


I'd sure love to see their reasoning and field going methods they used for the proposed changes behind the decrease of tags if they have any!

[Stein]

I have been very tempted to submit FOI requests for some of the calculations and discussions on the fishing side but have never actually done it.

Maybe someone has more ambition.  Maybe if enough people did it they would be more transparent and communicative about things.

[brocka]

I can only comment (and did on the survey) on the Bumping River unit. Spending a week in there with a bull tag a few years ago, I couldn't believe how many goats were back in there. I saw more goats than bulls, that is for sure. I doubt anyone is in there counting those goats? And I doubt anyone is going in and hunting those goats. Especially when you can get one from 410...

[Crunchy]

I would be shocked if you showed up at one of these biologist's office, and asked them to show you a goat without using a map they actually could pull it off.  And google images don't count. 

[Naches Sportsman]

I can only comment (and did on the survey) on the Bumping River unit. Spending a week in there with a bull tag a few years ago, I couldn't believe how many goats were back in there. I saw more goats than bulls, that is for sure. I doubt anyone is in there counting those goats? And I doubt anyone is going in and hunting those goats. Especially when you can get one from 410...

I counted 79 in two areas the other day.... Just a fraction of what is in North end of the unit.