Less mountain goat tags coming?

[fishngamereaper]

And I got all summer...with the obvious couple days I would need to take here and there to salmon fish ...

[sagemd]

Well get out there and do it then and quit talking about it. Actions speak louder than words. It does no good to complain about it if you don't do anything to back it up.

Oh I have... don't make assumptions...

Unfortunately when some dude not affiliated with wdfw calls the region 3 bio to relay info about game populations, goat, elk etc....the info most often gets round filed...they sure aren't going to use it to determine herd health.

So if they want solid boots on the ground info from guys that know what they are looking for and where to look, they need to think about other ways of doing it, cause right now it's not working..

 

[Skyvalhunter]

A count has been conducted in the past so here's a link to get you started in that direction. Or you could do a public records request of the survey results.
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,213936.0.html

[fishngamereaper]

A count has been conducted in the past so here's a link to get you started in that direction. Or you could do a public records request of the survey results.
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,213936.0.html

Im aware of that project. Correct me if I'm wrong but that count was conducted to determine if goat's needed to be removed from the area because of an increase in human conflicts.

When's the last time the States used hunter's to count goat's in current goat zone area's. Or to count goats in old zones, sub zones or area's that could be new zones.

I'm just as interested in helping wdfw manage big game in this State as I am in hunting big game in this state. But the state has to want the and accept the help...not blow people off with real world real time experience.

[Skyvalhunter]

If you contact Allen (Bushcraft) you will see that they have done several of these surveys. I am sure he will be more than willing to help you out as he is associated with SCI who with the guidance of WDFW get volunteers to conduct the surveys.

[jackelope]

If you contact Allen (Bushcraft) you will see that they have done several of these surveys. I am sure he will be more than willing to help you out as he is associated with SCI who with the guidance of WDFW get volunteers to conduct the surveys.

Pretty sure the goat surveys were done between WDFW and the Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance, also with Bushcraft at the helm. I might be wrong.

[Skyvalhunter]

On July 14-17, 2017, in conjunction with SCI and WDFW, the Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance will once again lead a boots-on-the-ground survey in and around the Enchantments.

[jackelope]

On July 14-17, 2017, in conjunction with SCI and WDFW, the Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance will once again lead a boots-on-the-ground survey in and around the Enchantments.

Ok. So we’re both right.

[jackelope]

They’re done a survey or 2 in the Goat Rocks too. Back then 4-5 years ago, we all daydreamed about the goal of that survey being more tags.

[Skyvalhunter]

Yea you know I don't know quite sure what all is involved in their decision making on the permits as there have been enough surveys done to merit a change. They do need to be more transparent with the public as to what goes into their decisions then there wouldn't be all(or as much) speculation going on.

[Tbar]

So with limited personnel and funding to do goat studies they are doing the best they can. Unless some university study was done they have to go with science and best estimates. The population can vary a lot if a parasite or other disease is impacted the goat population. So they can't just throw tags out there to pacify some hunters desire to draw a tag. Sure more tags would be nice and generate the state money but I applaud them for not wanting to do that like they did the other species.

I digress. Your point is made that they are doing a great job. I will politely agree to disagree and exit the conversation.

[Skyvalhunter]

So with limited personnel and funding to do goat studies they are doing the best they can. Unless some university study was done they have to go with science and best estimates. The population can vary a lot if a parasite or other disease is impacted the goat population. So they can't just throw tags out there to pacify some hunters desire to draw a tag. Sure more tags would be nice and generate the state money but I applaud them for not wanting to do that like they did the other species.

I digress. Your point is made that they are doing a great job. I will politely agree to disagree and exit the conversation.

So with limited personnel and funding to do goat studies they are doing the best they can That statement I made in no way insinuates they are doing a great job, Don't read more into it than what was stated.

[fishngamereaper]

I think we can all agree we want opportunity to accurately match availability. The numbers of tags being offered are well below what the herds can handle and still be healthy. IMO

The enchantment's study is a different animal as it was focused on overall numbers because of human conflicts, not for season setting. We all know how busy the enchantment's are and its only a matter of time before someone gets killed and those goats meet their fate. 

As for funding and personnel. When the NPS/USFS/ WDFW called people answered for the Olympic goat removal program. They had thousands of people interested. It would be safe to say if they also called on people for an accurate population survey people would also answer the call.

How much was spent on removing goats from the Olympics. 500k ish is a number I heard last year. And between hunters and airlift they removed about 400 and change, with a 30 percent mortality rate during relocation. That's a fairly expensive project per goat. I wonder how much they spend on goat surveys in the Cascades. Does WDFW rely on WDFW personnel only. Or do they rely on USFS personnel as well. They both have equal interest in the goat populations since WDFW makes the money and USFS has to provide the habitat in most cases.

I'm ready and willing to assist whenever possible. The one thing I'm not going to do is spend my time and energy doing a survey if the state isn't truly interested in the numbers. 

[avidnwoutdoorsman]

Need to get the RMGA involved or make it so that we get an annual count.... because right not it seams at best sporadic ....could focus on areas too. In BC this is a big deal with the Wild Sheep Society. Every year they do a huge count up by Spences Bridge. some 70+ "Volunteers" come out and count sheep. Teams are made to go out an glass areas to get specific counts of the area.

Not only does this provide real data for WDFW but it also is great for comradery. It's the number one recommended thing to do thing for new sheep hunters. (When the boarders open I would go do this again and recommend all sheep enthusiast to join). You go up to the count and you'll likely get paired with someone with years of experience. They will teach you were to look, how to tell gender, how to approximate age/curl. Everything. . You can then take this invaluable experience and go hunt other areas. OR if you have that experience you can take someone under your wing and help them along. In the mean time you've done your part to help with counts and tag allocation.

I say this because sometime public "volunteers" are the best help. I can tell by the passion of several on this thread that if we said, "hey, the first weekend in June we are going to do a goat count here, come join us" that a bunch of people would come out. AND not just hunters but the public too as is the case in this count in BC. It becomes a fun annual event for the family.

I dont have the time, resources, to do this admittedly but I throw it out there as an idea for someone who does or is apart of RMGA.

https://www.wildsheepsociety.com/1545-2/

Article for reference, but this is what I see us being able to do for real change and helping with management. And not just for the Goats. 

[jackelope]

Bushcraft on here has been involved with assembling teams for the RMGA surveys that were done here, and I think he managed to round up several people to assist just from the forum. If the surveys happen again, I believe the forum is a great tool to use to put together a list of willing and capable people to do it.