If you care about bear hunting......

[hunter399]

On another note.
You guys do realize that timber company has a hand in this.
Using feed barrels and other means of control tree damage ,not allowing access to spring bear hunters,ECT. Have turned the spring bear hunt from a damage hunt / to a recreation hunt.

[predatormode]

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[Alan K]

On another note.
You guys do realize that timber company has a hand in this.
Using feed barrels and other means of control tree damage ,not allowing access to spring bear hunters,ECT. Have turned the spring bear hunt from a damage hunt / to a recreation hunt.

Timber companies utilize bear feed in the spring because it is what is most effective at limiting damage, aside from depredation removals which were able to use hamstrung versions of the banned methods of take. Boot hunting in western Washington has proven ineffective for decades at addressing the massive damage to their property, what do you expect? 

Would a spring bear boot hunt be a great recreation opportunity? Yeah! Help out our struggling deer populations? Heck yeah! Stop private property damage? Not at all... Insinuating that private property owners have done anything to push this is ridiculous. If anyone knows how overpopulated bear populations are in western WA it's the timber companies!

[headshot5]

On another note.
You guys do realize that timber company has a hand in this.
Using feed barrels and other means of control tree damage ,not allowing access to spring bear hunters,ECT. Have turned the spring bear hunt from a damage hunt / to a recreation hunt.

Timber companies utilize bear feed in the spring because it is what is most effective at limiting damage, aside from depredation removals which were able to use hamstrung versions of the banned methods of take. Boot hunting in western Washington has proven ineffective for decades at addressing the massive damage to their property, what do you expect? 

Would a spring bear boot hunt be a great recreation opportunity? Yeah! Help out our struggling deer populations? Heck yeah! Stop private property damage? Not at all... Insinuating that private property owners have done anything to push this is ridiculous. If anyone knows how overpopulated bear populations are in western WA it's the timber companies!

 

[Fatherof5]

Comment sent!

[hunter399]

On another note.
You guys do realize that timber company has a hand in this.
Using feed barrels and other means of control tree damage ,not allowing access to spring bear hunters,ECT. Have turned the spring bear hunt from a damage hunt / to a recreation hunt.

Timber companies utilize bear feed in the spring because it is what is most effective at limiting damage, aside from depredation removals which were able to use hamstrung versions of the banned methods of take. Boot hunting in western Washington has proven ineffective for decades at addressing the massive damage to their property, what do you expect? 

Would a spring bear boot hunt be a great recreation opportunity? Yeah! Help out our struggling deer populations? Heck yeah! Stop private property damage? Not at all... Insinuating that private property owners have done anything to push this is ridiculous. If anyone knows how overpopulated bear populations are in western WA it's the timber companies!

 

Stop private property damage? Not at all.....
Has a timber company ever pushed for an OTC Spring Bear hunt? Not at all......🤔

I will say.......
Keep charging access fees to spring bear hunters
Keep your feed barrels.
Keep snare trapping and killing bears.

Hay I will ask you a question since it seems to me you work for said timber company.
Is that snare trapping done through the department of agriculture? At least the permit processs.
Do they come out and acess your damage first or do they just hand out permits like candy.

I don't really see the trapping lasting very long much like hound hunting did.
Not at all............

[Alan K]

Initially after the banning of baiting, trapping, and hound use for recreational hunting I believe it was the timber industry that did allow for spring bear hunting to see if it could help with damage. Was it over the counter they were pushing for, I have no idea, but I know they wouldn't have objected if that were the option presented. After some time now though, spring boot hunting has proven ineffective in limiting timber damage in any meaningful way. The bottom line is western WA is too thick. These bears live in reprod where visibility is about 3 feet... It's not a knock on boot hunters for lack of effort, it's just a reality that the bears doing the damage live in those jungles and require hounds to chase them out, bait to draw them out, or snares left in there in order to remove them.

On damage permits, they were issued through WDFW. I know landowners had to submit photos of damage with GPS coordinates for later verification by WDFW folks. The damage was NOT always verified prior to permit issuance, but I also know that that was in acknowledgment to the fact that speed is necessary in removing the damaging bear(s) before they potentially left the area.  The permits were designed to target the damage causing bears, and were not a just a free for all across  a tree farm that folks seem to think they were. I'm sure a landowner (industrial anyway) would not be looking to risk their name or relationship with the agency over falsifying a permit application. There could also be legal ramifications for falsifying info on a government application?

Timber damage and recreational bear hunting are two separate issues and should be viewed as such. We all know that our out of control bear populations hurt our ungulate populations, but they don't necessarily lead to an increase in timber damage.  I don't know of any timberland owners, large or small, who care about a high bear population, it's high bear damage they're concerned about.

I am personally all for a spring bear season, even selling unlimited bear tags. The more tags we can get in the hands of the guys who know how to bear hunt the better. Unfortunately I don't believe the number of guys hunting specifically for bear is very high. I suspect most are incidental, glassing one up during deer season etc.  Anything we can do to reduce the out of control predators in this state is vital to help out the ungulates.

I don't mean to divert this thread, it was the ridiculous assertion that timber companies had something to do with this that prompted me to speak up.  I encourage everyone to send in their comments!

[Skyvalhunter]

The more tags we can get in the hands of the guys who know how to bear hunt the better. Unfortunately I don't believe the number of guys hunting specifically for bear is very high. I suspect most are incidental, glassing one up during deer season etc.  Anything we can do to reduce the out of control predators in this state is vital to help out the ungulates.

The bold is the key!!! Putting it in the hands of hunters who will not shoot a sow with cub or cubs. If you listened to the WDFW commission meeting you would have heard that pretty much everyone that was against it brought up orphaned cubs. This is the subject that pulls at every ones heart strings. It was surprising to hear it was such a high percentage of sow bears taken during the Spring hunt. I want to say it was in the 30's% area. If they think just one cub is orphaned they want it shut down.

[emac]

So everyone should just report the they shot boars

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[trophyhunt]

Reporting just boars would be good, but now we have to take the bear in to get sealed. When people ask me for advice on spring bear, I always tell them to take the time and look for Cubs when they see a bear.  The Cubs are very small that time of year, I’ve been lucky so far and haven’t made the mistake of killing a sow w Cubs, that would really be hard.  Seeing a cub covering its eyes and crying would prob get me to quit hunting bears!!  But the reality is, even if mama doesn’t get shot, that cub has a high chance of not making it to adult age.

[hunter399]

So.............
@Alan K

Help me understand.
The animal activist that sued to get timber company's spring hound permits taken away. Now they are are trying to stop the spring recreational hunt .No connection there,even though the hound permits have left a bad taste in everyone's month that doesn't hunt.
The feed barrel ,I have no idea how long timber company been feeding bears.Its a short term solution causing themselves more problems.Its like putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound.
You feed bears-they don't eat tress,but at the same time bears population increase through feeding.Then snare them to a tree and shoot them.Sounds like a plan,that's a winner.
Basically.........
Spring hunt started as a damage hunt.And it didn't work like timber company's wanted ,So they went more to hound permits issued by WDFW .Now recreation permits in certain tree farms are decreasing for recreational hunts ,but that's the place where this damage occurs.Ohh ya that's right I don't think they want the public to see what's going on in them woods.

I believe......
Our wildlife is held in a public trust of management where hunters should be used to manage wildlife with opportunities to hunt,through fair chase,and not wasted meat,ECT. Snare a bear to tree and shoot it and leave it is not proper management.
I think we just have a different of opinion that we will never see eye to eye on .
I'm done posting on it.

[GWP]

I remember when this all started with the public getting a vote to ban hound hunting. Have a friend in WDFW that told me they basically panicked when that got voted in. The hound hunters did all the work and the system pretty well took care of itself.
There was a LOT of voices raised against the ban, but the majority of the voters do not hunt and do not understand that once you encroach in wildlife area’s and you start to manage wildlife, you have to keep managing it.

[Alan K]

So.............
@Alan K

Help me understand.
The animal activist that sued to get timber company's spring hound permits taken away. Now they are are trying to stop the spring recreational hunt .No connection there,even though the hound permits have left a bad taste in everyone's month that doesn't hunt.
The feed barrel ,I have no idea how long timber company been feeding bears.Its a short term solution causing themselves more problems.Its like putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound.
You feed bears-they don't eat tress,but at the same time bears population increase through feeding.Then snare them to a tree and shoot them.Sounds like a plan,that's a winner.
Basically.........
Spring hunt started as a damage hunt.And it didn't work like timber company's wanted ,So they went more to hound permits issued by WDFW .Now recreation permits in certain tree farms are decreasing for recreational hunts ,but that's the place where this damage occurs.Ohh ya that's right I don't think they want the public to see what's going on in them woods.

I believe......
Our wildlife is held in a public trust of management where hunters should be used to manage wildlife with opportunities to hunt,through fair chase,and not wasted meat,ECT. Snare a bear to tree and shoot it and leave it is not proper management.
I think we just have a different of opinion that we will never see eye to eye on .
I'm done posting on it.

Of course anti-hunting groups are emboldened after a small victory and will keep pushing. We've seen that with virtually issue they have ever litigated.

I don't necessarily disagree with you that feeding them is more of a bandaid. Landowners are encouraged to try non-lethal methods before resorting to lethal, and feeding has proven the most effective at that. If problems persist, lethal means were an option.

As far as fair chase goes... Regardless of whether you believe hounds, baiting, or sharing is fair chase, it doesn't and shouldn't matter in instances of damage to life or property. Those removals are not recreational. The problem animal should be taken care of as quickly and efficiently as possible.

The animals weren't wasted. Those taking care of the problem couldn't keep anything. The meat and hides were donated specifically to do away with any perception that the animals were wasted, or that the hunters were in it for the animal parts themselves.

I can't speak to anything on permit levels, other than I'd suspect it has to do with overcrowding if anything. Why would any landowner sell themselves short? And actually I believe they've been increasing permit levels across the board, at least in the case of Weyerhaeuser. That's actually something that bothers me as a permit purchaser... I can go to Capital Forest and see the crowds if I want. The reason I purchase a permit is to get away from them! And if anything, the access windows have been increasing. Originally Weyerhaeuser was just the fall months. Whether having folks in the woods through the late winter and early spring is a good idea for animals is another thing...

We can agree to disagree, but I believe a lot of your thoughts are based on assumptions and misperceptions about how damage removals were actually done. The line between recreation and depredation is pretty black and white for me, but it's obviously a gray area for you.  I'm not sure we can close the gap on that one.