Washington Mule Deer

[Mtnwalker]

People also don't seem to realize that wdfw is doing what they can to keep harvest numbers UP for deer, not reduce them. As long as harvest remains steady, they can claim they are doing a good job and that all is well, predators aren't an issue. I believe this is why they added the extra few days to the tail end of rifle season, allowing 209's and scopes on muzz, and so on. Careful pushing for species specific deer tags, as category-happy as wdfw is they might just heed your advice and offer separate tags for each... but probably allow you to buy all 3  of course you'd still only get your 1 deer

[Special T]

On the issue of Blactail deer verses Mule deer.  Mule deer are much easier to survey and notice the decline in numbers. The open terrain has a lot to do with it. As some one who almost exclusively hunts black-tail I will tell you I dont hunt deep in the woods any more. I hunt in peoples back yards. The cat numbers are strong enough for deer to seek shelter near homes like the NE.  I dont think it is as obvious because of the terrain and under-story. I do know that I have been asked to come out and try and kill cougars by the property owners I have permission from. So far Ive come up blank.

We are in a predator pit. Unless we start killing lots of cats Bears and Bobcats I dont think its gonna matter what we do.

The department knows that if it goes permit only a large segment of the population will quit hunting. The department is weak and scared. They wont make any big moves especially that affect $.

[Special T]

People also don't seem to realize that wdfw is doing what they can to keep harvest numbers UP for deer, not reduce them. As long as harvest remains steady, they can claim they are doing a good job and that all is well, predators aren't an issue. I believe this is why they added the extra few days to the tail end of rifle season, allowing 209's and scopes on muzz, and so on. Careful pushing for species specific deer tags, as category-happy as wdfw is they might just heed your advice and offer separate tags for each... but probably allow you to buy all 3  of course you'd still only get your 1 deer

The scopes on Muzzy and Classifiers in peep sights for Archery were specifically to keep older hunters in the game hunting paying for tags. This was done because of hunter demographics and $.

[Skyvalhunter]

 

[Rainier10]

I think part of the pro doe harvest argument is carrying capacity of the land and buck to doe ratios.

If a certain area only has resources to sustain a herd of 100 deer you don't want 99 does and 1 buck to breed them all.

There is alot more to carrying capacity than just open space.  I have a large amount of land.  I have acres that have deer on them every day of the week and other spots that don't see a deer but once a month as they are moving from one good area to another.

[huntnphool]

I think part of the pro doe harvest argument is carrying capacity of the land and buck to doe ratios.

If a certain area only has resources to sustain a herd of 100 deer you don't want 99 does and 1 buck to breed them all.

There is alot more to carrying capacity than just open space.  I have a large amount of land.  I have acres that have deer on them every day of the week and other spots that don't see a deer but once a month as they are moving from one good area to another.

 The issue with this argument is “science” and their “studies” have suggested that nature balances itself naturally. If there isn’t enough prey for predators, they naturally don’t produce as much offspring, allowing plenty of food for their specie. On the flip side, when there is plenty of available food, they will produce more offspring.

 If we are to believe their “science” regarding predators, why wouldn’t it be the same for ungulates? If there isn’t enough resources to sustain the herd, wouldn’t doe and cows naturally produce less offspring, only one fawn and calf rather than two?

 Just seems to me they always come up with a argument that serves their purpose, but that same argument is never relevant when you point out the hypocrisy!

[Rainier10]

I think part of the pro doe harvest argument is carrying capacity of the land and buck to doe ratios.

If a certain area only has resources to sustain a herd of 100 deer you don't want 99 does and 1 buck to breed them all.

There is alot more to carrying capacity than just open space.  I have a large amount of land.  I have acres that have deer on them every day of the week and other spots that don't see a deer but once a month as they are moving from one good area to another.

 The issue with this argument is “science” and their “studies” have suggested that nature balances itself naturally. If there isn’t enough prey for predators, they naturally don’t produce as much offspring, allowing plenty of food for their specie. On the flip side, when there is plenty of available food, they will produce more offspring.

 If we are to believe their “science” regarding predators, why wouldn’t it be the same for ungulates? If there isn’t enough resources to sustain the herd, wouldn’t doe and cows naturally produce less offspring, only one fawn and calf rather than two?

 Just seems to me they always come up with a argument that serves their purpose, but that same argument is never relevant when you point out the hypocrisy!

I agree.  You can make the argument that the glass is half full or half empty but it will always be the same glass of water.  The flip flop depending on where they stand at that time is frustrating.  I do think Nock Nock made the argument earlier about balance and that predators can't be that out of balance because there are enough ungulates for them to eat, if there weren't predator numbers would drop on their own.

If there is plenty of food and capacity does will have twins and if there is not they will only have one or no offspring.  The law of averages says that there will be just as many bucks born in a year as does but there are all kinds of factors that determine how many make it through the year and what sex actually makes it.  You could still end up with a higher number of does taking up carrying capacity of the land and that would then require doe harvest to open up more room for bucks.

It's complicated for sure.  I have over 200 deer on my place right now.  Buck to doe ratio is all screwed up and there is no doe harvest in the unit I am in.  My only option is to limit buck harvest again this year.  I am hoping by hunting season the numbers will balance out and the kids can hunt.

[NOCK NOCK]

Thats just it. think of a childs very teetering balance beam. ....whether its predators on one end with ungulates on the other  OR  Ungulates on one end and human hunters on the other.

Either end of the  balance beam gets heavy it will ruin the "fun of the game" for the other end.....then eventually the heavy end has to turn into the light end or again there is no "balancing game"

Nature will work it out, we as hunters just need to help that process out a bit, so it favors our sport.

[boneaddict]

Predator control
Stop the antlerless harvest. (Little johnnie can learn to hunt like the rest of us did). 2nd deer tag, really?
Get a grip on Tribal harvest.  You all are just going to improve the jerky market.  Look what cutbacks did in the clockum (for elk).
Stop the multi season tag
Put funds into buying land to secure for range versus hiring wolf study guys. 

This would be a start.   I’m guessing very few hunters are willing to make the sacrifice.   Every time I see someone excited about killing a doe I want to puke.  Oh and in this woke world you can’t say anything because you might hurt someone’s feelings and you get lectured on how we have to stick together.   Hold hands like those on the deck of the titanic. 

[jstone]

I agree no second deer, no does!!!, no stupid multi season tags!!!

[elksnout]

I agree no second deer, no does!!!, no stupid multi season tags!!!

Guys could actually stop applying for them.....


Elksnout

[Jimmy33]

Predator control
Stop the antlerless harvest. (Little johnnie can learn to hunt like the rest of us did). 2nd deer tag, really?
Get a grip on Tribal harvest.  You all are just going to improve the jerky market.  Look what cutbacks did in the clockum (for elk).
Stop the multi season tag
Put funds into buying land to secure for range versus hiring wolf study guys. 

This would be a start.   I’m guessing very few hunters are willing to make the sacrifice.   Every time I see someone excited about killing a doe I want to puke.  Oh and in this woke world you can’t say anything because you might hurt someone’s feelings and you get lectured on how we have to stick together.   Hold hands like those on the deck of the titanic.

Tell us how you really feel about it...I agree with almost everything you said but I like the idea of giving youths, in my eyes 13 and younger, the ability to shoot any buck as opposed to does tags and antler restrictions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[no.cen.wa]

Predator control
Stop the antlerless harvest. (Little johnnie can learn to hunt like the rest of us did). 2nd deer tag, really?
Get a grip on Tribal harvest.  You all are just going to improve the jerky market.  Look what cutbacks did in the clockum (for elk).
Stop the multi season tag
Put funds into buying land to secure for range versus hiring wolf study guys. 

This would be a start.   I’m guessing very few hunters are willing to make the sacrifice.   Every time I see someone excited about killing a doe I want to puke.  Oh and in this woke world you can’t say anything because you might hurt someone’s feelings and you get lectured on how we have to stick together.   Hold hands like those on the deck of the titanic.

Hey Bone,
 there was a tent camp at 30 mile last year that had 30 ft. pole tied to a stump, it had a Trump Flag at the top and another flag below it that said " Fxxx" your feelings!
It was Great!
John G

[Skyvalhunter]

Predator control
Stop the antlerless harvest. (Little johnnie can learn to hunt like the rest of us did). 2nd deer tag, really?
Get a grip on Tribal harvest.  You all are just going to improve the jerky market.  Look what cutbacks did in the clockum (for elk).
Stop the multi season tag
Put funds into buying land to secure for range versus hiring wolf study guys. 

This would be a start.   I’m guessing very few hunters are willing to make the sacrifice.   Every time I see someone excited about killing a doe I want to puke.  Oh and in this woke world you can’t say anything because you might hurt someone’s feelings and you get lectured on how we have to stick together.   Hold hands like those on the deck of the titanic.

I agree with this. there is no sense in giving out doe tags when the herd is hurting. Some hunters are so concerned about shooting something at the expense of future hunting.

[huntnphool]

Predator control
Stop the antlerless harvest. (Little johnnie can learn to hunt like the rest of us did). 2nd deer tag, really?
Get a grip on Tribal harvest.  You all are just going to improve the jerky market.  Look what cutbacks did in the clockum (for elk).
Stop the multi season tag
Put funds into buying land to secure for range versus hiring wolf study guys. 

This would be a start.   I’m guessing very few hunters are willing to make the sacrifice.   Every time I see someone excited about killing a doe I want to puke.  Oh and in this woke world you can’t say anything because you might hurt someone’s feelings and you get lectured on how we have to stick together.   Hold hands like those on the deck of the titanic.

I agree with this. there is no sense in giving out doe tags when the herd is hurting. Some hunters are so concerned about shooting something at the expense of future hunting.

 Remember discussing doe tags years ago on this site, and how people lost their freakin minds when members posted that their families purchased doe tags for years and burned them on purpose?