6.8 Western, Winchester

[MountainWalk]

  I'm not really current with all the new offerings out there nowadays.   Today I was messing around and came across the 6.8. Upon more research, the more I liked. Thoughts?

[Chesapeake]

What is it you like about it?

It’s just a 270 SAUM or 270PRC, or 270WSM for the most part. Where it has improvement is the slightly shorter case allowing bullets to be seated out, and the rifles should come throated for the long bullets and the barrel twisted for those bullets.

The big negatives currently are lack of availability of ammo, brass, and bullets.

Bullets being a big issue as there are only a few that are suitable. They were made for the 270 Nosler. Those current offerings are quite soft bullets.

.277 diameter is a bit of a sweet spot. You get the long high BC bullets in the 150 to 170 grain weight. This is a good weight for manageable recoil and killing power. Always been hamstrung by the 1:10 twist barrels though.

The thing is 7mm does it all equally as well, but is much more supported in the bullet and brass realm. 7mm SAUM, 7mmWSM, 7mm REM MAG, 280, 280AI, all will do everything the 270 Western will do.

Not being a fan of Winchester or Browning, there isn’t anything about the current rifle offerings that would interest me.

[emac]

Well I went to look for some ammo the other day and the only ammo they had in stock was this.  Wished I had owned the gun at that point

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[MountainWalk]

 big negatives currently are lack of availability of ammo, brass, and bullets.
     


    Isn't that everything nowadays?

[Chesapeake]

I wasn’t framing it in the current COVID market.

Even without covid none of the good brass manufacturers support it. None of the good bullet manufacturers support .277 bullets. There has never been a need due to 1:10 factory twist rates.

Might be 5 years or never that folks get on board with heavy for caliber .277 bullets. Same for brass. If it never catches on as a competition round, it may never see premium market support. Little chance of competition happening, it doesn’t offer anything new there.

[MountainWalk]

You do know it is brand new,  right?

   I got ya. Different strokes. 
 I've owned 7 rum and 7saum, liked them ok, the sauna better than the big one. 
 I do like 270's, and I  do like modest amounts of blast for such a high return, and I do like Winchester m70's.
 Maybe you dont. 
 I think it would be a fantastic chambering to have up here in Alaska.  Especially as a wolf rifle. My wolf hunting is split between using an AR, which is nice when you've called a pack down onto the beach at low tide, but seriously lacks punch, or my 35 whelen, which crushes even the biggest wolf with authority,  but is slow to shoot multiple wolves with prone.
And for our tiny deer. And for our masher bears. Alaska is great!

[northwesthunter84]

they had ammo for this at Sportsman's last week.

[zwickeyman]

they had ammo for this at Sportsman's last week.

 

They had more 6.8 on the shelf than all others combined

Its a great cartridge but like said. Already some good .277 out there

[hunter399]

they had ammo for this at Sportsman's last week.

 

They had more 6.8 on the shelf than all others combined

Its a great cartridge but like said. Already some good .277 out there

Seen it a few weeks ago.
They seem to be able to make ammo for Western.
But 308,30-06,270,243,7mm mag ,and other common caliber can't find jack.
I'm sure demand is low for Western since not Alot of people own it yet. Heck I don't know.
I'm sticking with 7mm mag though,don't see any reason to change to a "western" ...

[Chesapeake]

Yep, aware that it’s new.
You recall you asked for our thoughts, right?


For wolves 6mm or 6.5mm would be much better. Maybe a 6.5 grendel or 6mm grendel  in an AR if ranges aren’t too long. Maybe step up to 6 or 6.5 creed if wanting for wolf and blacktail or longer ranges. 270 western will have too much recoil for spotting impacts and quick follow up shots in a sub 10# rifle.

[MountainWalk]

 Well, I guess I'll just have to be disagreeing with you, mister.

      Idk about your wolf killing experience,  but 243-6mm is too light. Especially for fleeing wolves. A wolf is a stout critter.

  After years of shooting 338 win mags and 35 whelen,  you'd be surprised how fast this old boy can shoot 30 cal and smaller. Just because you couldn't get back on, doesn't mean I cant. Speak for yourself.

   Ive loaded woodliegh bullets. I consider them a "good" bullet company.  They offer 180 grain for 270.
  Gunbroker has two pages of nothing but 6.8 ammo. There goes your availability argument.
    I appreciate your wanting to educate us dummies, and dazzle us with your knowledge.
   There's is nothing new under the sun,  and the majority of sporting cartridges are varying degrees of redundancy.  You obviously like the creedmore. It too, at one point was new. I'm sure someone compared it to a 260 rem, or a 25'06. That's just the way it is,  mister.

[Bill W]

Moses Lake SW has ammo for it.  I was asked what I thought about it.  "Just another revised caliber to generate more gun/ammo sales.  What does it do that a .270 Win doesn't?"

[Stein]

Everybody wants a 6x cartridge and to capitalize on the growing numbers of long range shooters that go through the ammo.

With the long range community, the new entrants will get weeded out quickly and if you are a hunter I would be extremely wary of buying a rifle chambered in something that isn't already established or isn't getting quickly adopted by long range communities.  In addition to bullets, brass, rifles and magazines, you need to consider dies including the specialized ones and other tools for measuring and reloading.  After that, reloading data itself needs to be prevalent and tested long before I pull the trigger.

With the 6.5's available and adopted, I'm not sure what niche this fits.

[MountainWalk]

By that line of thinking,  we would have called 'er  good with the 30'06.....and quit.

[bustedoldman]

I see ammo for it everywhere, only 1 or 2 rifles tho. If it interests you go for it! The guns/ammo world is similar to any other production where they are always coming out with the next latest and greatest......Some people don't like change, some people enjoy it.

[Mtnwalker]

It always cracks me up to see the crusty reactions to new cartridges being introduced. "what does it do that the _______ doesn't do?" "it's basically just a _____  (but better)" "why would I want one of those when I already have an '06?" "good luck finding ammo"

While this particular cartridge probably won't end up in my safe any time soon, I'm always happy to see more innovation and more options in the shooting world. It benefits everybody. Sure, right now it might be silly to get one of these because the 7mm options are much more plentiful, but if we want plentiful, modern .277 options at some point, doesn't the innovation have to start somewhere? Sure, a lot of it probably is just hype to sell something new, but I'm never going to complain about another good option for western cartridges that brings along with it new high end bullets and all kinds of other goodies. Nobody is forcing you to hand over your 270 win 

[Bill W]

By that line of thinking,  we would have called 'er  good with the 30'06.....and quit.

ding...ding...ding.... we have a winner.  Actually it may have stopped with the .300 H&H mag.

[Stein]

I sure did, when they made the first Remington 700 chambered in 30-06, they could have sent the engineers home and only kept the factory open for the rest of time.   

[Karl Blanchard]

  I'm not really current with all the new offerings out there nowadays.   Today I was messing around and came across the 6.8. Upon more research, the more I liked. Thoughts?

here is my question mountain walk, why ask for others thoughts but then argue with people when their opinions don't match what you've already pre conceived on this chambering? If you like the western go buy a western. 

[MountainWalk]

I can handle a fellows opinion.  But I really don't care for a fellow who will rebuff every subsequent  reply with the same argument.  I asked for his opinion,  not his opinion 4 times? Savvy?

[Bill W]

when the new calibers come on the market and people get hot to buy one make sure first it's not going to fizzle and leave you with a gun and no ammo (at some later point in time).

Examples: .225 Winchester (or whoever made it), the etronic primer, the daisy caseless ammo (I really liked this one), the 5mm rimfire, one I own the .375 Big Bore and there's a number of others.  In my mind most of the new calibers being created are just to generate gun/ammo sales.

[konradcountry]

By that line of thinking,  we would have called 'er  good with the 30'06.....and quit.

You can make a very clear explanation as to why someone might use a 7-08 or 6.5 over a 30-06.

The problem with these new calibers is that there are diminishing returns.

Instead of a clear explanation we get "if you look at our graphs you can see that under favorable conditions you'll get 15% more energy over an established caliber".

We have seen manufactures hype and then drop calibers. It isn't fear of change, it's justified skepticism of a flavor of the month caliber.

[JimmyHoffa]

The diminishing returns argument is more for how the round performs on a chart like you mention.  If the change in the cartridge gives you gains in different areas, then it could be much more worth the consideration.  One guy said why not just use a .270 Win.....270 win is on a long action, 6.8 is on a short.  Maybe it has to fit in the AR10 for somebody? 

[konradcountry]

The diminishing returns argument is more for how the round performs on a chart like you mention.  If the change in the cartridge gives you gains in different areas, then it could be much more worth the consideration.  One guy said why not just use a .270 Win.....270 win is on a long action, 6.8 is on a short.  Maybe it has to fit in the AR10 for somebody?

Sure but it is coming on the heels of the 6.5 PRC which works in the AR10 and offers similar performance.

The market pie can only be divided so many times. I think the 6-7 market is pretty well covered.

[kselkhunter]

You do know it is brand new,  right?

   I got ya. Different strokes. 
 I've owned 7 rum and 7saum, liked them ok, the sauna better than the big one. 
 I do like 270's, and I  do like modest amounts of blast for such a high return, and I do like Winchester m70's.
 Maybe you dont. 
 I think it would be a fantastic chambering to have up here in Alaska.  Especially as a wolf rifle. My wolf hunting is split between using an AR, which is nice when you've called a pack down onto the beach at low tide, but seriously lacks punch, or my 35 whelen, which crushes even the biggest wolf with authority,  but is slow to shoot multiple wolves with prone.
And for our tiny deer. And for our masher bears. Alaska is great!

After reading all your posts in this thread, the question is what is your goal?  What platform are you putting the 6.8 Western in?  Bolt action or AR or ?

How far are you shooting, is this a "long range" application and what do you consider long range?

6.8 Western looks like a fine caliber.  And is unique enough right now that not many people have the rifles thus ammo can be found for it (not that the factories are cranking out a bunch of ammo....just so few guys own the new caliber right now).   That will eventually change.

If putting the 6.8 Western in a bolt gun, would you have the same problems shooting multiple wolves prone that you have in your 35 Whelen?

If you're going bolt action rifle with 6.8 Western why not just load up 180gr TTSX or 200gr Accubond on that 35 Whelen?   The better BC on that 6.8 Western at 175 grain bullet at 2850fps isn't going to start making much of a difference against the 35 Whelen with 180gr TTSX at 2900fps until shots are out past 400 yards.  How often do you shoot at wolves out past a quarter mile range?   That is the most important question in my opinion....

If it were me, I'd just carry the 35 Whelen loaded with 180gr TTSX or 200gr Accubond when wolf hunting, and a couple of 250gr Partitions or 310gr Woodleigh's in my pocket or as 4th round in the clip in case a coastal brown bear stops by to say "hello" up close and personal.  But I'm a 35 cal fan, so am biased.

If shooting past 400 yards is going to be typical, well there are many calibers in that category along with the 6.8 Western....

But if you want a new toy to play with the 6.8 Western looks like a decent round when coupled with the Nosler ABLRs.   Just buy up the reloading dies and as much brass and bullets as you can afford.  In case it gets eliminated and becomes a "wildcat" round.  And enjoy.  That 6.8 Western should take pretty much anything in Alaska, although I'd want something bigger if around coastal brown bears alot.

Good luck!

[BigGoonTuna]

Even without covid none of the good brass manufacturers support it. None of the good bullet manufacturers support .277 bullets.

nosler, swift, hornady,sierra Barnes etc?

I’ve always thought of the “problem” of the .270 not having the range of bullets that 7mm and 30 cal do is sort of a blessing. Being that until recently, the .270 cal only had 2 common cartridges chambered for it means that .277 bullets  were designed to be optimal in those cartridges.

[Chesapeake]

.277 bullets were designed to be optimal in a 1:10 twist barrel because that’s all anyone twisted a .277 barrel in until the 27 Nosler came in at 1:9 and now the Western at 1:7.5 and 1:8.
The Western will be throated for long 165 to 175 grain bullets seated out long. With that same setup and the shorter traditional .277 bullets you’ll likely be jumping the bullets a fair bit to the rifling. The high twist rates won’t be optimal for the shorter slugs, though likely not a major issue.

The Westerns claim to fame is the ability to use the long sleek high BC 160 to 175 grain bullets, so I believe 1 offering from Nosler and one from Sierra, and maybe a few others like Cutting edge and Hammer bullets.
If you load it with traditional 150 grain or less bullets it looses its edge.
That’s what I meant by lack of .277 bullet support. Lack of long sleek 160+ grain bullets for the Western.

I’m not passing judgement on the round. It’s no doubt a fine round just like many others. If a guy wants one, then go for it. Never hurts to go in with both eyes open though.
Hopefully it will become popular and stay around. Hopefully soon everyone will get caught up with production and begin to support the new chambering.

One other detail since shooting a pack of wolves was brought up. In standard hinged floor plate configuration the short fat Western will only fit 3 in the belly where as a 270 win would fit 4. Of course detachable magazines could add to capacity.

[konradcountry]

After reading all your posts in this thread, the question is what is your goal?  What platform are you putting the 6.8 Western in?  Bolt action or AR or ?

It actually isn't designed for the AR10.

Big mistake on their part.

[Dan-o]

Ammo alert!!!!!

There's about 6 boxes of it on the shelf at Federal Way Sportsman's warehouse.

I don't remember the exact components, but it was good stuff and not expensive at all.