PREDATOR/PREY Project

[hunter399]

What you all think of this..........

[Tbar]

Several good folks working on that.

[hunter399]

Several good folks working on that.

I seen that

[KFhunter]

Nice production.


I get a ticket if I ride my atv without a helmet.

[Tbar]

A couple that aren't so great as well.

[KFhunter]

I have zero hope that

1) the study will show the true scope of depredation and ungulate decline

2) that what excess depredations is shown will be addressed appropriately

3) that predator hunting will be increased and prioritized over reducing opportunities for hunters

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[hunter399]

I have zero hope that

1) the study will show the true scope of depredation and ungulate decline

2) that what excess depredations is shown will be addressed appropriately

3) that predator hunting will be increased and prioritized over reducing opportunities for hunters

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I was waiting for someone to post what I was thinking.
Pretty spot on KF.

[hunter399]

To add I'm pretty sure they have data, we just got cougar quotas raised last year.
Not release any data to the public in till 2022.
 

[bullfever]

Thanks for sharing.

[Special T]

Cool video... But Im going to be a bit of a Buz kill.
 ID which covers the roughly rocky mountain region, Pretty much everything east of the Columbia river, has been studied by ID for the las 20 years. It appears that WA is attempting to duplicate those studies. This is both good and bad. Good because ID pretty much has the answers we need AND we need those same kinds of studies to fight the antis... Bad because the Colville Tribe already hired the UW bio to do the reservation studies both on the rez and the north half. When he was hired by the WDFW he was hambstrung by the department. I hold out hope that this study has the same findings, but doubt it. I personally wish so much tribal hate didnt exist because Tribes are consumptive users like sportsmen.

[KFhunter]

I notice the study didn't include the north half, the area declared by the tribe as a biological desert.

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[hunter399]

I don't want to ridicule the study to much.
It's kinda a change to see some scientific stuff going on.
Some of these long term study.,I wouldn't mind seeing like a yearly progress report on the project as it goes along.
Instead of waiting 5-6 years to look at a huge book of what the results are.

I'm almost sure when I see results I'll change my mind on the ridicule part. But I guess we will see.

I guess we will find out if wolves eat deer,elk,moose.
 
Something tells me this study says they don't.
 

[Tbar]

I don't want to ridicule the study to much.
It's kinda a change to see some scientific stuff going on.
Some of these long term study.,I wouldn't mind seeing like a yearly progress report on the project as it goes along.
Instead of waiting 5-6 years to look at a huge book of what the results are.

I'm almost sure when I see results I'll change my mind on the ridicule part. But I guess we will see.

I guess we will find out if wolves eat deer,elk,moose.
 
Something tells me this study says they don't.
 

This gets a little frustrating and often leads me to not engaging in topics. This study  is a step, a step that took a lot of poking and prodding to get to. Most of that was not on behalf of the pro wolf community. So is it right to question the results before knowing anything?  I will say that I have faith in the lead. That faith does not mean that it'll be what armchair quarterbacks will not critique it in a self serving thought process. That faith means that we will be far more informed after the study than before. Another thing I look forward to seeing out of this study is not conclusions but data gaps. The more data gaps we are able to identify the more we can  fill. Right now we are at a severe deficit in regards to pro wolf vs unbiased data. 

[KFhunter]

I hope that this lead will let folks know if the data is not used properly by WDFW.

My lack of faith is not with the people doing the study (both good and not so good by your words) but in WDFW utilizing it properly.


Most of that lack of faith is due to Inslee,  he's already torpedoed meaningful change.

So I hope this lead...doesn't take it personally when this topic is bashed, it's because of WDFW as a whole not as individuals.

[Tbar]

I hope that this lead will let folks know if the data is not used properly by WDFW.

My lack of faith is not with the people doing the study (both good and not so good by your words) but in WDFW utilizing it properly.


Most of that lack of faith is due to Inslee,  he's already torpedoed meaningful change.

So I hope this lead...doesn't take it personally when this topic is bashed, it's because of WDFW as a whole not as individuals.

Excellent point and solid grounds to support the study (or data in general). He shoots from the poll booth quite a bit but the data out there is often done with a pre determined pro wolf contingent. Any remotely unbiased data should be supported. Due to the intent of this study I like the chance of it producing some value.

[hunter399]

I don't want to ridicule the study to much.
It's kinda a change to see some scientific stuff going on.
Some of these long term study.,I wouldn't mind seeing like a yearly progress report on the project as it goes along.
Instead of waiting 5-6 years to look at a huge book of what the results are.

I'm almost sure when I see results I'll change my mind on the ridicule part. But I guess we will see.

I guess we will find out if wolves eat deer,elk,moose.
 
Something tells me this study says they don't.
 

This gets a little frustrating and often leads me to not engaging in topics. This study  is a step, a step that took a lot of poking and prodding to get to. Most of that was not on behalf of the pro wolf community. So is it right to question the results before knowing anything?  I will say that I have faith in the lead. That faith does not mean that it'll be what armchair quarterbacks will not critique it in a self serving thought process. That faith means that we will be far more informed after the study than before. Another thing I look forward to seeing out of this study is not conclusions but data gaps. The more data gaps we are able to identify the more we can  fill. Right now we are at a severe deficit in regards to pro wolf vs unbiased data. 

Well I was poking, ,joking a little bit.
I did say I didn't want to ridicule it too much. That's my bad.

But did you say you want data gaps.
I'm kinda thinking that maybe we should see the results and how there used to "manage" wildlife .
Before we decide to turn it into a 25 year study.
I'm not trying to put this study down at all.
But history tells us........most that do these study's ,hunting of any kind is there last priority.
So I will wait for results .
When results are out we will find out what wolves favorite food is.
Deer
Elk
Moose.
Cow
Sheep
Lamb
Chicken
Grasshopper
Wolf pups
Grouse or Turkey
House cat
House dog
Cougar
Bob cat
Roadkill
Horse
Pig
Duck
Cow tail but not the whole cow.
Grass -vegan wolves
The results will be interesting that's for sure.

[Special T]

On a siden note a great study is taking place about proving if cats can be conditioned to stay away from oeiole and dogs.

Being from the skagit vally where every tarheal had a pack of dogs thisnis a no brainer. I liken it to proving water is wet. That said some some super basic studies havebto be done in order to prove history and common sense.

I only wish they could fast forward past studies some of us already know the answer to.

https://www.stitcher.com/episode/82455325



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[KFhunter]

I have heard before that wolves have conditioned cats to fight and be more aggressive towards hounds in Idaho.

I woulda thought with wolves harassing lions they'd just tree up faster, but wolves chasing lions off kills,  they might be prone to fight more.

Just secondhand info, I'm not an Idaho houndsman.


I think if the above is true there, then it stands to reason lions might be more aggressive to pets here, and if displaced and hungry, see them more and more as prey species.

[Tbar]

On a siden note a great study is taking place about proving if cats can be conditioned to stay away from oeiole and dogs.

Being from the skagit vally where every tarheal had a pack of dogs thisnis a no brainer. I liken it to proving water is wet. That said some some super basic studies havebto be done in order to prove history and common sense.

I only wish they could fast forward past studies some of us already know the answer to.

https://www.stitcher.com/episode/82455325



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What do "we" already have answers to? That's the exact attitude that gets pro hunters crushed in management scenarios. The antis have done their homework and are often ready and willing to make assumptions without scientific representation look amateur. When one side represents with the professional standard(science, often junk science) and the other has anecdotal accounts. That's not to discount the lessons life has taught however at times it takes data to inform management.

[KFhunter]

Fire with Fire

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[Special T]

On a siden note a great study is taking place about proving if cats can be conditioned to stay away from oeiole and dogs.

Being from the skagit vally where every tarheal had a pack of dogs thisnis a no brainer. I liken it to proving water is wet. That said some some super basic studies havebto be done in order to prove history and common sense.

I only wish they could fast forward past studies some of us already know the answer to.

https://www.stitcher.com/episode/82455325



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What do "we" already have answers to? That's the exact attitude that gets pro hunters crushed in management scenarios. The antis have done their homework and are often ready and willing to make assumptions without scientific representation look amateur. When one side represents with the professional standard(science, often junk science) and the other has anecdotal accounts. That's not to discount the lessons life has taught however at times it takes data to inform management.

This comment is specifically about proving  that cats can be conditioned. You are correct that sportsmen get beat up  because they just have annecdotal evidence.

I belive this puts sportsmen at a disadvantage. ANTIS  just have to cast doubt then sportmen/the department capitulates until it can be proven otherwise.

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[hunter399]

I'm just still curious if some of the data will include depredations on livestock as well .
Collar predators
Collar natural prey.
But is 6 years of livestock depredations that are confirmed done by predators going to be included in the study.
I don't remember seeing it on the YouTube.

[Special T]

I'm just still curious if some of the data will include depredations on livestock as well .
Collar predators
Collar natural prey.
But is 6 years of livestock depredations that are confirmed done by predators going to be included in the study.
I don't remember seeing it on the YouTube.

I dont know if it will or not. This episode didnt talk about too many of the details of the study. Mostly interesting stories that correlate with it. Its mentioned that Buddy hopes to do a podcast With Bart on it.

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[hunter399]

I'm just still curious if some of the data will include depredations on livestock as well .
Collar predators
Collar natural prey.
But is 6 years of livestock depredations that are confirmed done by predators going to be included in the study.
I don't remember seeing it on the YouTube.

I dont know if it will or not. This episode didnt talk about too many of the details of the study. Mostly interesting stories that correlate with it. Its mentioned that Buddy hopes to do a podcast With Bart on it.

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Sweet

[Mtnwalker]

Were full results ever released at the conclusion of this project? I've found articles with bits and pieces, mostly pro-wolf relating to NE whitetail showing exactly what was expected. A lot of the earlier articles during the study eluded to full findings and data being available upon conclusion which I haven't been able to locate. The predator-prey website seems to be more of a narrative than actual viewable data unless I'm not looking in the right places

[waterdrinker9]

Were full results ever released at the conclusion of this project? I've found articles with bits and pieces, mostly pro-wolf relating to NE whitetail showing exactly what was expected. A lot of the earlier articles during the study eluded to full findings and data being available upon conclusion which I haven't been able to locate. The predator-prey website seems to be more of a narrative than actual viewable data unless I'm not looking in the right places

I did find this which gives some info but seems like only touches on some of the study. I actually do/have taken classes with a couple of the professors mentioned later in this article so could ask to see if they can lead me to something.
https://www.washington.edu/news/2024/07/10/wolves-deer/

[hunter399]

I did see some of the results.
Basically there is different portions of the study.
They test scat ,to see what predators are eating.
Gps collar tracking and trends for movement in different seasons.
Also how many fawns survived with collars,cause of death.
Then trail cams or camera traps as they call it.
They do a mathematical deal ,where how long it takes a predator to show after a ungulate and all this.


But yes I've never seen all the info brought together in a final report.
Honestly,I don't see any good coming from it as a hunting stand point. They are still gathering info  still I'm sure,all the collars are black, animals still wear them..Most of the data that will help hunters will be skewed or "inconclusive".
They will use info ,like in the recent cougar changes.
About "Male territory" of cougars . Thinking there will be less depredation. Or the fawn survival,most data was inconclusive data of cause of death. Or scat data that wolves only eat moose.


It paints a picture that doesn't help hunters ,or wildlife in my opinion.

[Humptulips]

I really don't see the value in studying whether dogs chase predators off. I'm sure they do but the bottom line is they have to eat something and that is deer, elk, beaver, fill in your favorite diminishing wildlife.
If you go out and look at the habitat and it is overgrazed, you're probably going to say we have to increase deer harvest or whatever the predominate grazer is. If ungulates are decreasing in number every year it would seem logical to look at what is "overgrazing" them.
A Senator told me when I mentioned cougars "I'm not going to touch that" The answer is easy but there is no political will to address the problem.

[buckcanyonlodge]

Who controls the data ? Cherry picking evidence to support their goals.

[HillHound]

I really don't see the value in studying whether dogs chase predators off. I'm sure they do but the bottom line is they have to eat something and that is deer, elk, beaver, fill in your favorite diminishing wildlife.
If you go out and look at the habitat and it is overgrazed, you're probably going to say we have to increase deer harvest or whatever the predominate grazer is. If ungulates are decreasing in number every year it would seem logical to look at what is "overgrazing" them.
A Senator told me when I mentioned cougars "I'm not going to touch that" The answer is easy but there is no political will to address the problem.

Logical, that is the key word you used and the one thing they are lacking. This is all about their personal agenda

[hunter399]

They probably tracked most the animals to my salt blocks.
Biologist probably got upset that they wasn't getting natural data for the project. Because they believe Eastern Washington should be some Yellowstone animal sanctuary. A natural biodiversity sanctuary. Hammer drops, STATEWIDE BAIT BAN.
Sorry guys ,all my fault again. Conspiracy theories run wild on Sundays.
Probably talking out my rear end,but not far from the truth.