Anyone ever float-hunt the Missouri Breaks?

[Pathfinder101]

Wondering if anyone has hunted the Missouri Breaks from a boat?  I was kicking around the idea of floating it this summer with my son as a scouting trip for this coming fall.

[jackelope]

i'll row.

[huntnphool]

The banks on both sides of the river will still be mostly private land wont they?

[bobcat]

Are you talking Fort Peck Reservoir? If so you'll probably want a motor on that boat. And there's plenty of BLM ground from what I've heard.

[Pathfinder101]

The banks on both sides of the river will still be mostly private land wont they?

Are you talking Fort Peck Reservoir? If so you'll probably want a motor on that boat. And there's plenty of BLM ground from what I've heard.

Well, that's the kind of stuff that I was wondering.  It's hard to tell from MT.FWP's mapper what is what, especially since I don't really know that part of MT.  That's why I was wondering if anyone had done it. 
It does look like a lot of BLM land the closer you get to the reservoir, but it also looks like the eastern end of The Breaks is "National Monument".  The web sites I looked into made it sound like that was public land.

[bobcat]

I've never done it but I want to. I know a guy who did it once. He and four other guys camped on the shore of the reservoir, and boated across the lake every morning to hunt. They all killed nice mulies. But this was about 15 years ago.

[jackelope]

i know nothing about the area. when the word float was mentioned, i immediately took it as a river. if it's fort peck, i rescind my offer. that'd be a whole lot of rowing.

[Pathfinder101]

The Res appears to have the most public land, but I was thinking more of a canoe trip down the Breaks.  Like I said though, I can't really tell if is huntable (acess-wise).  I thought it would be cool to float it with my 10 year old this summer (like Lewis and Clark), good hands-on history lesson for him, summer scouting trip for me, fun for both. 

[bobcat]

There's some info there that may help:

http://www.monstermuleys.info/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.pl?az=show_thread&om=7324&forum=DCForumID6&archive=yes

[Pathfinder101]

Thanks Bobcat.  That was actually super helpful.  Sounds like everyone hunts the Reservoir.  Must be a reason for that.  The Map on mt.fwp makes it look like the Breaks are surrounded by designated "wilderness", so I would assume that it is public land, but it must not be, because it doesn't sound like anyone hunts it.  most people were complaining that the only problem with hunting around the Reservoir was that it is all public and a lot of people are in there for the rut.  Lots of talk  about the deer in there only reaching the 170 mark (age class, genetics, etc...).  I guess I am going to be easy to please, I'll be happy with anything that has 4 good points and is as wide as his ears for this trip.
Maybe I am reading fwp's map wrong, or they have designated a bunch of private ground to be "wilderness".

[bobcat]

I'd guess that what appears to be shown as wilderness is actually the Charles M. Russell National Wildlife Refuge. Try this link:  http://www.fws.gov/cmr/

[whacker1]

Yes, it is the Charles M Russell National Wildlife Refuge that encompasses the breaks of the Fort Peck Reservoir and is open for hunting with special rules that apply.  If I remember correctly the season ends a little bit early on the Wildlife Refuge, but I can't remember for sure.  The water gets pretty rough and get can get very cold and windy at the drop of a hat.  Not something you will want to canoe in.

From Craig Montana on the missouri river below the dam - much of the river bank is private land.  I have floated about 16 miles of it while fishing and there is some nice ground - saw one nice buck, but mostly private property. 

[Pathfinder101]

Thanks again Bobcat.  
No, the CMR Refuge is marked pretty clearly on the fwp map in purple.  I knew that was public land, since that is the area everyone is talking about hunting.  The area upstream from that is shaded green, which (the way I am reading the legend) is "Dept of Agriculture" and is marked on the map as a "wilderness area".  I am talking about the portion of the river below Fort Benton and above hwy 191.  No one mentions hunting that area though, so either they designated the private ground on both sides of the river "wilderness", or I am reading the map wrong.  
After visiting a couple of other sites, I am starting to think they designated the private property as  "wilderness".  There is a lot of talk about ranchers not being able to graze their cattle in the breaks because of the designation.  I can't really tell if they are talking about the private property being shut down, or some "open range" being shut down.  
Confusing

[Pathfinder101]

Yes, it is the Charles M Russell National Wildlife Refuge that encompasses the breaks of the Fort Peck Reservoir and is open for hunting with special rules that apply.  If I remember correctly the season ends a little bit early on the Wildlife Refuge, but I can't remember for sure.  The water gets pretty rough and get can get very cold and windy at the drop of a hat.  Not something you will want to canoe in.

From Craig Montana on the missouri river below the dam - much of the river bank is private land.  I have floated about 16 miles of it while fishing and there is some nice ground - saw one nice buck, but mostly private property. 

Thanks Whacker.  That clears some stuff up.  It doesn't look like the actual season ends early(the way I read it those units are open til 29 NOV, unless I am reading the reg wrong), but a lot of talk about the boat ramps on the Reservoir closing due to weather, which would affect boat hunting.
Yeah, if I hunt the reservoir it wouldn't be by canoe.  I would probably either rent a boat at one of the marinas or borrow one and bring it with me.

[whacker1]

I think they have authority to change the seasons within the refuge.  Can't remember for sure, but I know they have more authority than one would think.

Lots of big bucks come from up there.  Never been.  I was supposed to go in 2007, but had back surgery instead.  Montana did send me back 90% of my money for the medical refund.  Gracious for that part.

[bobcat]

I looked at the map on the Montana FW&P site. I don't think the area along the river outside of the wildlife refuge is actually shaded green as if it was wilderness. Maybe look to the west where there are actual wilderness areas and see what the shading looks like there. It will probably be a more obvious, darker shade of green.

[Pathfinder101]

OK, you are right Bobcat.  I zoomed in and I guess the green shading probably depicts something else.  The word that I thought was "Wilderness" was actually "Wild and Scenic River", designating the river, not the land surrounding it. 

[bobcat]

Pathfinder,

I think I figured out what is causing your confusion. You are in "topographic" mode and therefore the shaded green areas are simply wooded areas. Switch it over to "highway map" and you'll no longer see the green shading. I looked at the Bob Marshall Wilderness and it's shown as a definite dark green. Also in the upper tool bar on the right it will help if you change it from "L" (Low Image Quality) to "H" (High Image Quality.)

[Pathfinder101]

Pathfinder,

I think I figured out what is causing your confusion. You are in "topographic" mode and therefore the shaded green areas are simply wooded areas. Switch it over to "highway map" and you'll no longer see the green shading. I looked at the Bob Marshall Wilderness and it's shown as a definite dark green. Also in the upper tool bar on the right it will help if you change it from "L" (Low Image Quality) to "H" (High Image Quality.)

Yup.  That's what I was doing.  I guess this is all my fault for never using Montana's map software until AFTER I got drawn for the tag.   THanks for the help.

I think they have authority to change the seasons within the refuge.  Can't remember for sure, but I know they have more authority than one would think.

Lots of big bucks come from up there.  Never been.  I was supposed to go in 2007, but had back surgery instead.  Montana did send me back 90% of my money for the medical refund.  Gracious for that part.

Now you have got me worried whacker.  I was planning to hunt the last week of the season, but what if they close it on me...

[whacker1]

Don't worry about them closing it.  They leave a phone number in the game regs somewhere for the CMR wildlife refuge if you want to call and ask questions.  i remember calling them. 

FYI - from what I remember from friends - you don't want to be there the last week of the season.  I think the success typically takes place earlier in the rut.  Just what I have heard from a few friends that have had some success over the last few years. 

[Pathfinder101]

OK, cool.  Thanks for the tip.  I also put in for Antelope in 530, and the draw success there is pretty good, so I may be making a double trip.  I think Antelope ends 10 NOV, so maybe I'll go and hunt goats for the last few days of the season, then move over to the breaks and hunt deer.

[Bigshooter]

I have not read this years regs, but the last few years the CMR area closed in mid november.

[buckhorn2]

Fort Peck can get just like the ocean in a hurry and the later in the season it can get real cold. Drifting the river and hunting the islands can produce some nice whitetail and glassing the rims there are nice muledeer.  The part of the river we were on was by winiferd and I think we put in around the robinson bridge it is after the resevoir sp. anyway I think it was in fergus county or 417. We had an 18 foot boat and jet motor but I remember how cold it was in the mornings but we were there the last week of the season. if you go left at wineiferd you drop down to the river and there is a real nice boat ramp that hunters go up and down the river from.

[Pathfinder101]

I have not read this years regs, but the last few years the CMR area closed in mid november.

The regs say that those units will be open til the 29th, but an earlier post said the CM Russell can close them earlier if they want. 

Fort Peck can get just like the ocean in a hurry and the later in the season it can get real cold. Drifting the river and hunting the islands can produce some nice whitetail and glassing the rims there are nice muledeer.  The part of the river we were on was by winiferd and I think we put in around the robinson bridge it is after the resevoir sp. anyway I think it was in fergus county or 417. We had an 18 foot boat and jet motor but I remember how cold it was in the mornings but we were there the last week of the season. if you go left at wineiferd you drop down to the river and there is a real nice boat ramp that hunters go up and down the river from.

When you hunted that stretch, did you have any access/provate land issues?  Is that public?  (I am about to go check the map regarding the float you just mentioned).

[Pathfinder101]

Buckhorn,
I just checked the map, and that is the area I was hoping to hit (the float you mentioned).  I am worried that the banks of the river on both sides are private. 

[bigdave]

I've floated 150 some odd miles of the missouri from fort benton down to the james kipp bridge. The wildlife refuge starts downriver from the james kipp bridge. We were just floating for pleasure. The section between coal banks landing and judith landing is the most scenic. Google the "white cliffs of the missouri for pics. I've floated the badlands section once and it was HOT HOT HOT in july and very buggy with black flies. I pulled off the river one afternoon cause it was soo hot and I fell asleep in the shade of the only tree I'd seen for miles. When I woke up I was surroundeed by about 20 head of Black angus cattle that were not going to let me keep them from the shade. I didn't see many mulies just a few whiteys and some mt sheep. The scenic section is a great family float with the only real danger being snakes and wind.
If memory serves, there is a strip of land along both sides of the river corridor that is public.

[Pathfinder101]

Thanks Big Dave.  Turns out this public/private land on the Breaks questions has turned out to be more of a mystery than I thought...

[andrew_12gauge]

as was stated before fort peck can get nasty in a hurry make sure you have a good sized boat if you do go out on fort peck, my dad, grandpa, and I almost lost a 16 foot glasstron out there on fort peck in 2002 it was a scary boat ride and we were up in one of the bays that was "protected" from the wind, we went out across the bay(stupidest decision ever) and it got really bad on the way back across there were rollers comin over the front of the boat and ever piece of gear and clothing we had with us was soaked by the time we got back to the launch. we talked to a game warden out there who said they usually lose a few boats out there on fort peck every hunting season. oh and all we saw was a little 2 point buck that spotted us from about 500 yards and the last we saw he was a mile away and still goin full bore but i dont think we were in the right area, it sounds like you have to get out on the main channel of the lake to find the big boys

[buckhorn2]

It was over ten years ago when we made this trip but there was public land there then. We hunted for years with ranchers that had property there and if you want I can mail you there name and they have huge tracks of land and own down by the river and allow hunting there through the block managment. There are some huge bulls on there property but is a drawing for the permit but if you draw they allow hunting.

[Pathfinder101]

as was stated before fort peck can get nasty in a hurry make sure you have a good sized boat if you do go out on fort peck, my dad, grandpa, and I almost lost a 16 foot glasstron out there on fort peck in 2002 it was a scary boat ride and we were up in one of the bays that was "protected" from the wind, we went out across the bay(stupidest decision ever) and it got really bad on the way back across there were rollers comin over the front of the boat and ever piece of gear and clothing we had with us was soaked by the time we got back to the launch. we talked to a game warden out there who said they usually lose a few boats out there on fort peck every hunting season. oh and all we saw was a little 2 point buck that spotted us from about 500 yards and the last we saw he was a mile away and still goin full bore but i dont think we were in the right area, it sounds like you have to get out on the main channel of the lake to find the big boys

Thanks for the warning Andrew.  What kind of boat would you recommend to hunt Peck effectively?  Sounds like more than a one man operation. 

It was over ten years ago when we made this trip but there was public land there then. We hunted for years with ranchers that had property there and if you want I can mail you there name and they have huge tracks of land and own down by the river and allow hunting there through the block managment. There are some huge bulls on there property but is a drawing for the permit but if you draw they allow hunting.

Buckhorn, I didn't draw the big game combo, I drew Deer A, so I will only be deer hunting.  I know there are 2 kinds of Block Management in Montana, the kind you sign in for, and the kind you have to call ahead and make a reservation for.  I would love to get those property owner's information, since the official Block Management list doesn't come out until August.  I was thinking of doing the float trip, but that was mostly to get away from the crowds.  If I can hunt Block Management land in the Breaks that won't be overrun by hunters, that would be just as good (maybe better from the sounds of it).  I am primarily after a mule deer (of course I don't think I have it in me to pass up a big whitey.. ).

[400out]

The banks on both sides of the river will still be mostly private land wont they?

I think that the breaks of the missouri is montanas form of blm land I THINK!

[Pathfinder101]

The banks on both sides of the river will still be mostly private land wont they?

I think that the breaks of the missouri is montanas form of blm land I THINK!

Seems like about half the people I talk to think the same thing, and the other half think that the Breaks are private.  I guess maybe I should call Montana Fish and Game and ask someone.  I am not sure what would be worse; getting run off someone's land I didn't know I was trespassing on, or seeing a big buck on land I was not sure I could hunt...

[andrew_12gauge]

well pathfinder i think it would be best to at least have a good deep hulled boat preferably 18' or bigger and if the weather report says its gonna be windy id stay off the lake, we had gone and talked to the game warden the day before we went out there and he had told us to make sure the wind wasnt blowin it wasnt bad when we left the launch but the wind picked up during the day and it was pretty nasty goin back. the wind blows almost every day out there so i guess you just gotta pick the right day when it doesnt blow as much

[Pathfinder101]

Thanks again Andrew.  Do they let you camp on the CMR?  What I am wondering is if you can blast out there on a nice day, set up a camp in a remote area of the refuge, and hunt from your camp instead of having to play "most dangerous catch" with the lake every day?

[andrew_12gauge]

i honestly dont know youd have to call somebody to find the answer to that one

[Hooter]

I guided up there a while back for elk mostly, but we were at the west end from the 191 bridge down (east) on the "river" portion. There are many braids, islands and channels where red willow grew which would pull the cows down then the bulls would eventually follow. Both sides were huntable, the north and south, back then you could only camp for two weeks only then had to move to the other side for two weeks. A pain to do. We used 16 foot flat bottom Lunds with 20 or 25 HP motors to ferry us around. You can float it as well just have someone to pick you up when you are done! Yes its cold in the mornings, we were there Sept, Oct, but nice days, warm sunny and generally pleasant. The wind can come up quick, it can rain and the roads get nasty with "gumbo" mud, like you have never seen! Floating from canyon to canyon hunting up the draws, spot and stalk, cross up high into the next drainage then hunt down to the river. Some really nice deer, never really saw Monster deer, some good ones though. Early in the season watch for rattlers, but they will leave you alone for the most part. Good areas to get up high and glass, bring a spotting scope too, and get some cheap "pirate eye patches" from the drug store to cover one eye when scoping the area, less chance of headaches from squinting. Not sure about camping along the way, fires etc... but nice country, always changing and those breaks, if you ironed  out all the wrinkles...you could put Texas in one little corner of em'!! Lots of us and downs but the upper part of the draws has lots of cover, feed and watering holes on the upper benches for cattle I'm guessing. You will have fun up there. Good luck. 

[groundhog]

I have a good friend that guides on the reservoir and surrounding areas. Last year I was thinking of doing a similar hunt and I was taking my kids and had similar expectations as you do. I wasn't looking for monster bucks, just decent bucks and a good experience.
I have a 22' Asaltor with 37 inch sides so I have enough boat. He suggested that I hunt the Block management instead.  It was good advise. As stated before the reservoir can really kick up and get nasty. One of the problems is leaving your boat and going hunting. It is best to get dropped off. Even then sometimes it is hard to get picked up because it is so rough. If you decide to do this another problem to watch out for is that if you get rain everything turns to gumbo type mud. Many boats have gone down because the gumbo from your boots gets in the bilge and plugs up your bilge pump. As you are beating your way home you take on water and eventually capsize. He recommends two high volume bilge pumps and a second pair of boots to keep the gumbo out of your bilge. If you go good luck, have fun and be careful.

[luvtohnt]

Check out this website http://www.geocommunicator.gov/blmMap/Map.jsp?MAP=SM it should help to determine what is BLM ground.

Brandon

[William B.]

Good info I drew a bull tag in there ten years ago when i lived in great falls.it was a Nov.hunt coldest damm trip I ever been on.Killed my bull on the second day thankfully.We were runin and gunin found a heard and hiked in 2 miles in a foot of snow.The gumbo was frozen by then so was everything eles food and water.The Missori is a class A river navigable for comercial use,you can hunt the islands.We camped on top of a ridge it got about 10 degrees colder on the river bottom we got lucky it was no fun,from hunting to survival in a hurry.Big country is an understatment.The couleys are huge.Because the river is frozen for months other water sourses are important year round.The wind can be a poblem as well,it is the bad lands,definatly a wild place I really enjoyed that aspect of that hunt.good luck

[Pathfinder101]

THanks guys.  Sorry, been out of state for the last week and no computer access.  I appreciate the info.  Ground hog, you said that your guide friend told you to hunt the Block Management instead of the reservoir.  Wondering what quality/numbers you saw?
Hooter, thanks for the tip about the eyepatches.  Also, I am probably doing this trip alone, so if I float, I would have to arrange a pick-up.  Are there shuttle services in the area?  Any suggestions?
THanks again, I appreciate everyone's