Year round Bull Elk season

[buckcanyonlodge]

Not only year round but it's 24 hours a day too....spotlighting can be a very good way to bring in the jerky.

[Tbar]

The Colville tribe is the example of management, the yakamas, how not to manage. I’ve always hoped the colville tribe would set a good example and the rest would follow. Maybe someday when the herd numbers get even worse??

Who’s to say the yakamas don’t manage well? I bet they have plenty of trophy class animals on the Rez since they seem to like to hunt off the Rez so much.

Well, zero limits on deer and elk to start with sounds like great management.  And then ignore their own rules on selling meat, and then not reporting numbers to Wdfw. Just to name a few things that help w management.  I have a feeling the hunting is better in the colockum, and the YTC, that’s a favorite spot for some.

That's why the hunt off the rez because they have pretty much depleted the animals on the rez

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Ceded land is considered the rez and the rez is doing just fine.

If that’s the case why don’t you manage some of the wolves for us.

Would be glad to.

Why aren't you? Why aren't all of you? You've paid attention to what has happened to the elk in Yellowstone? In northern Idaho?

What was the harvest (elk) in the panhandle in 2000 vs 2020? I'm not a wolf advocate but there is truth in numbers.

[Tbar]

Lots of internet knowledge that perpetuates the divide.  Many in this thread wouldn't know an ally simply because they are closed minded and at times ignorant. The tribes have a vested interest in strong ungulate herds and work diligently to achieve this. Also if its about strong herd numbers, male preference in harvest is always preferable, period.  Any bull,  whether its a 100 inch bull or 400 inch bull, is a better choice for herd growth than a cow.  Also the spike harvest strategy employed by the wdfw is a choice which roots much of the jealousy spewed in these threads. There are many different harvest strategies that can accomplish biological minimums to achieve pregnancy rates that promote stable herds.  The true issue is predators as well as agricultural influence which not only competes for prime habitat but also has a dedicated section with significant harvest throughout the state. It was less than a decade ago when the Yakima herd was growing at an unsustainable rate according to wdfw, only two things have changed,  damage section was created and predators remained unchecked.  Tribal harvest has been static to decreasing to the best of my knowledge.  I do not claim to know what all tribes harvest but I do have a limited knowledge of harvest numbers.

[Rainier10]

And a mic drop Tbar. Very well said.

[idaho guy]

The Colville tribe is the example of management, the yakamas, how not to manage. I’ve always hoped the colville tribe would set a good example and the rest would follow. Maybe someday when the herd numbers get even worse??

Who’s to say the yakamas don’t manage well? I bet they have plenty of trophy class animals on the Rez since they seem to like to hunt off the Rez so much.

Well, zero limits on deer and elk to start with sounds like great management.  And then ignore their own rules on selling meat, and then not reporting numbers to Wdfw. Just to name a few things that help w management.  I have a feeling the hunting is better in the colockum, and the YTC, that’s a favorite spot for some.

That's why the hunt off the rez because they have pretty much depleted the animals on the rez

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Ceded land is considered the rez and the rez is doing just fine.

If that’s the case why don’t you manage some of the wolves for us.

Would be glad to.

Why aren't you? Why aren't all of you? You've paid attention to what has happened to the elk in Yellowstone? In northern Idaho?

What was the harvest (elk) in the panhandle in 2000 vs 2020? I'm not a wolf advocate but there is truth in numbers.

realistic numbers would be early 90s to late 90’s  bs about 2008-10 when we started actually being able to manage wolves. That would be accurate information based on few to no wolves and then wolves unmanaged for 10-15 years. 2000 would show harvest post unmanaged wolves vs 12 years of increasing wolf management. 2000 to 2020 harvest numbers is a very inaccurate time frame to measure wolf impact on elk hunting. Seasons have changed greatly as well and they created a bunch of 4-5 month long depredation tags for cows and a December muzzle season for cows. Both of those have very high success and a 4 month cow season should be 100 percent with very little effort. None of these existed till recently since the wolves pushed big herds down on to private. The only way to measure wolves impact on elk is to have been there from early 90’s till 2020. I have been looking at Idaho panhandle would be very smart for any state debating what wolves really do to elk herds. You can’t just pull some generic time frame and say hey! They are killing more elk! Nothing to worry about. Specifically certain units were dramatically impacted and some never got over run with wolves so the impact was less. If harvest stats are what you want to use the only accurate data would be to compare units with heavy wolves and look mid 90’s till about 2005-8 depending on area. You would also have to throw out stats from new tags created which should be almost 100 percent. Don’t oversimplify and just throw out numbers

[Tbar]

The Colville tribe is the example of management, the yakamas, how not to manage. I’ve always hoped the colville tribe would set a good example and the rest would follow. Maybe someday when the herd numbers get even worse??

Who’s to say the yakamas don’t manage well? I bet they have plenty of trophy class animals on the Rez since they seem to like to hunt off the Rez so much.

Well, zero limits on deer and elk to start with sounds like great management.  And then ignore their own rules on selling meat, and then not reporting numbers to Wdfw. Just to name a few things that help w management.  I have a feeling the hunting is better in the colockum, and the YTC, that’s a favorite spot for some.

That's why the hunt off the rez because they have pretty much depleted the animals on the rez

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Ceded land is considered the rez and the rez is doing just fine.

If that’s the case why don’t you manage some of the wolves for us.

Would be glad to.

Why aren't you? Why aren't all of you? You've paid attention to what has happened to the elk in Yellowstone? In northern Idaho?

What was the harvest (elk) in the panhandle in 2000 vs 2020? I'm not a wolf advocate but there is truth in numbers.

realistic numbers would be early 90s to late 90’s  bs about 2008-10 when we started actually being able to manage wolves. That would be accurate information based on few to no wolves and then wolves unmanaged for 10-15 years. 2000 would show harvest post unmanaged wolves vs 12 years of increasing wolf management. 2000 to 2020 harvest numbers is a very inaccurate time frame to measure wolf impact on elk hunting. Seasons have changed greatly as well and they created a bunch of 4-5 month long depredation tags for cows and a December muzzle season for cows. Both of those have very high success and a 4 month cow season should be 100 percent with very little effort. None of these existed till recently since the wolves pushed big herds down on to private. The only way to measure wolves impact on elk is to have been there from early 90’s till 2020. I have been looking at Idaho panhandle would be very smart for any state debating what wolves really do to elk herds. You can’t just pull some generic time frame and say hey! They are killing more elk! Nothing to worry about. Specifically certain units were dramatically impacted and some never got over run with wolves so the impact was less. If harvest stats are what you want to use the only accurate data would be to compare units with heavy wolves and look mid 90’s till about 2005-8 depending on area. You would also have to throw out stats from new tags created which should be almost 100 percent. Don’t oversimplify and just throw out numbers

The generic timeframe is when idfg started tracking and publishing. Please provide the numbers you are referring to so we can better understand the impacts. 

[hunter399]

The Colville tribe is the example of management, the yakamas, how not to manage. I’ve always hoped the colville tribe would set a good example and the rest would follow. Maybe someday when the herd numbers get even worse??

Who’s to say the yakamas don’t manage well? I bet they have plenty of trophy class animals on the Rez since they seem to like to hunt off the Rez so much.

Well, zero limits on deer and elk to start with sounds like great management.  And then ignore their own rules on selling meat, and then not reporting numbers to Wdfw. Just to name a few things that help w management.  I have a feeling the hunting is better in the colockum, and the YTC, that’s a favorite spot for some.

That's why the hunt off the rez because they have pretty much depleted the animals on the rez

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Ceded land is considered the rez and the rez is doing just fine.

If that’s the case why don’t you manage some of the wolves for us.

Would be glad to.

Why aren't you? Why aren't all of you? You've paid attention to what has happened to the elk in Yellowstone? In northern Idaho?

What was the harvest (elk) in the panhandle in 2000 vs 2020? I'm not a wolf advocate but there is truth in numbers.

realistic numbers would be early 90s to late 90’s  bs about 2008-10 when we started actually being able to manage wolves. That would be accurate information based on few to no wolves and then wolves unmanaged for 10-15 years. 2000 would show harvest post unmanaged wolves vs 12 years of increasing wolf management. 2000 to 2020 harvest numbers is a very inaccurate time frame to measure wolf impact on elk hunting. Seasons have changed greatly as well and they created a bunch of 4-5 month long depredation tags for cows and a December muzzle season for cows. Both of those have very high success and a 4 month cow season should be 100 percent with very little effort. None of these existed till recently since the wolves pushed big herds down on to private. The only way to measure wolves impact on elk is to have been there from early 90’s till 2020. I have been looking at Idaho panhandle would be very smart for any state debating what wolves really do to elk herds. You can’t just pull some generic time frame and say hey! They are killing more elk! Nothing to worry about. Specifically certain units were dramatically impacted and some never got over run with wolves so the impact was less. If harvest stats are what you want to use the only accurate data would be to compare units with heavy wolves and look mid 90’s till about 2005-8 depending on area. You would also have to throw out stats from new tags created which should be almost 100 percent. Don’t oversimplify and just throw out numbers

The generic timeframe is when idfg started tracking and publishing. Please provide the numbers you are referring to so we can better understand the impacts.

You don't have to look in a book to tell elk numbers have been reduced in Idaho .
With that said ...............
Same thing happening here in Washington right now.
Certain people that do the deer and Elk counts let there emotion for wolves screw the counts.
Idaho has said that there wolf management plan calls for 150 wolves in 15 packs. They currently have over 1500 wolves. Brad little has started an all out war on wolves with the new hunting bill the governor has passed.
It's a proven fact in Idaho ,every year about 500 wolves are harvested by hunters,trappers ,ECT. And that's not enough.
When you have wolves in a habitat rich environment,there should be no limits on hunting,and trapping of wolves.
They are very similar to coyote ,Hunters will never kill enough to effect there population,or reintroduction. They are not an animal that's gonna stand there and let you shoot them 99% of the time.
According to Idaho fish and game numbers of Elk are stable and a small reduction in Elk are due to wolves.
At the same time hunting is big money in Idaho,there not gonna come out and tell you our elk herds are declining.
Don't come here and hunt. But you can tell there is a problem with wolves the way there currently and actively hunting,trapping,and paying contractors to kill wolves.

Idaho is sticking with 150 wolves and 15 packs is the number they came up with that,ranchers,Hunters,the game animals in the state would have little impact from wolves.
And still keep sustainable wolf population in there state.

The point of my run on sentences..........
Doesn't matter the elk and deer numbers.
Too many wolves,some need to go bye,bye.
You don't let wolves kill all the game before you take charge and do something.
Now I'll connect this to Washington........
There are more wolves in eastern Washington than what we are being told ,period.. Some mountain ranges,areas ,ECT,are worst than others .Sure areas that wolves are the prodominate predator ,mule deer,white tail,elk, are being wipe out,while other areas seem to be fine,or just slightly lower population. But with Washington they will continue to just let this continue. Washington will go with the "numbers" and by the time anything is done will be too late and a dollar short.Idaho says not gonna happen here.
Good for Idaho.👌

[idaho guy]

The Colville tribe is the example of management, the yakamas, how not to manage. I’ve always hoped the colville tribe would set a good example and the rest would follow. Maybe someday when the herd numbers get even worse??

Who’s to say the yakamas don’t manage well? I bet they have plenty of trophy class animals on the Rez since they seem to like to hunt off the Rez so much.

Well, zero limits on deer and elk to start with sounds like great management.  And then ignore their own rules on selling meat, and then not reporting numbers to Wdfw. Just to name a few things that help w management.  I have a feeling the hunting is better in the colockum, and the YTC, that’s a favorite spot for some.

That's why the hunt off the rez because they have pretty much depleted the animals on the rez

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Ceded land is considered the rez and the rez is doing just fine.

If that’s the case why don’t you manage some of the wolves for us.

Would be glad to.

Why aren't you? Why aren't all of you? You've paid attention to what has happened to the elk in Yellowstone? In northern Idaho?

What was the harvest (elk) in the panhandle in 2000 vs 2020? I'm not a wolf advocate but there is truth in numbers.

realistic numbers would be early 90s to late 90’s  bs about 2008-10 when we started actually being able to manage wolves. That would be accurate information based on few to no wolves and then wolves unmanaged for 10-15 years. 2000 would show harvest post unmanaged wolves vs 12 years of increasing wolf management. 2000 to 2020 harvest numbers is a very inaccurate time frame to measure wolf impact on elk hunting. Seasons have changed greatly as well and they created a bunch of 4-5 month long depredation tags for cows and a December muzzle season for cows. Both of those have very high success and a 4 month cow season should be 100 percent with very little effort. None of these existed till recently since the wolves pushed big herds down on to private. The only way to measure wolves impact on elk is to have been there from early 90’s till 2020. I have been looking at Idaho panhandle would be very smart for any state debating what wolves really do to elk herds. You can’t just pull some generic time frame and say hey! They are killing more elk! Nothing to worry about. Specifically certain units were dramatically impacted and some never got over run with wolves so the impact was less. If harvest stats are what you want to use the only accurate data would be to compare units with heavy wolves and look mid 90’s till about 2005-8 depending on area. You would also have to throw out stats from new tags created which should be almost 100 percent. Don’t oversimplify and just throw out numbers

The generic timeframe is when idfg started tracking and publishing. Please provide the numbers you are referring to so we can better understand the impacts.

 

It’s not when they started tracking or publishing. That’s what they might be publishing right now. I think our fish and game does a great job but they make money selling elk tags. Here is a few of timeline I suggested sepersted by unit. Notice the closer to ground zero for wolf reintroduction the greater the impact.

[idaho guy]

Plus

[idaho guy]

😎

[idaho guy]

You can almost watch the population of wolves as the migrated and see the impact on elk harvest they were planted middle fork and selway

[idaho guy]

 

[idaho guy]

I have the “data” for all Idaho units and it’s all pretty similar. The dates change as the wolves migrated to nee areas then you see the impact regionally. I have also looked up overall harvest from the idfg for those time frames and it obviously shows the same decline. 13 years of aggressive wolf management has helped a lot but it took a few years of hunting and trapping before we saw any benefits. There is a ton of information that all support the fact that wolves eat elk, the more wolves you have the less elk you will have. We don’t really need graphs and data to understand that do we ? Back to the topic I have no resentment against natives hunting because I don’t and never have hunted Washington. As a lover of elk I think it’s absurd that one user group has a year round unlimited season on a herd facing massive challenges(wolves,bears,lions) and I’m sure at least some loss of habitat. To ignore this fact and just focus on everything else is wrong. Can you change it? You won’t know if you don’t try. I already said it’s in the best interest of the tribe to have some reasonable regulations. It has nothing to do with taking away their rights but at least have some common sense. I think a lot of people don’t want to speak up because they fear not being politically correct. That b.s. the elk need a voice

[idaho guy]

The Colville tribe is the example of management, the yakamas, how not to manage. I’ve always hoped the colville tribe would set a good example and the rest would follow. Maybe someday when the herd numbers get even worse??

Who’s to say the yakamas don’t manage well? I bet they have plenty of trophy class animals on the Rez since they seem to like to hunt off the Rez so much.

Well, zero limits on deer and elk to start with sounds like great management.  And then ignore their own rules on selling meat, and then not reporting numbers to Wdfw. Just to name a few things that help w management.  I have a feeling the hunting is better in the colockum, and the YTC, that’s a favorite spot for some.

That's why the hunt off the rez because they have pretty much depleted the animals on the rez

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Ceded land is considered the rez and the rez is doing just fine.

If that’s the case why don’t you manage some of the wolves for us.

Would be glad to.

 

What would it take to get you and other tribal members to aggressively hunt wolves?

Money!

My buddy the taxi you met pays 500 for raw wolf pelt if it’s black. Other colors are worth around 500 tanned. That’s selling to a taxidermist who would need to do something with it and sell for a profit. I don’t know for me that’s good money? How much do they make selling jerky? Skinning and selling a wolf is a lot easier than making a bunch of jerky. Skulls could probably get another 25 to 100 bucks on top of pelt. All of them stupid unhunted Washington wolves sound like easy money too me

[Tbar]

I have the “data” for all Idaho units and it’s all pretty similar. The dates change as the wolves migrated to nee areas then you see the impact regionally. I have also looked up overall harvest from the idfg for those time frames and it obviously shows the same decline. 13 years of aggressive wolf management has helped a lot but it took a few years of hunting and trapping before we saw any benefits. There is a ton of information that all support the fact that wolves eat elk, the more wolves you have the less elk you will have. We don’t really need graphs and data to understand that do we ? Back to the topic I have no resentment against natives hunting because I don’t and never have hunted Washington. As a lover of elk I think it’s absurd that one user group has a year round unlimited season on a herd facing massive challenges(wolves,bears,lions) and I’m sure at least some loss of habitat. To ignore this fact and just focus on everything else is wrong. Can you change it? You won’t know if you don’t try. I already said it’s in the best interest of the tribe to have some reasonable regulations. It has nothing to do with taking away their rights but at least have some common sense. I think a lot of people don’t want to speak up because they fear not being politically correct. That b.s. the elk need a voice

First off thank you for the data.  I only looked up what was quickly available and more specifically the panhandle. I'm not sure what is considered north Idaho. I also have talked in detail with idfg representatives.  They said Selway and Lolo are hit the hardest but (according to them) most units in the state have adapted and elk hunting is stable.  I agree that they are marketing and I can get the name of person I communicated with but he was very anti wolf.
As for regulations, tribes do have them.  More specifically, I am not really quick to judge a tribe for having a year round season on bull elk and a 3 month season on cows when the state runs an arbitrary ad hoc season on cows from July 1st to March 31st with significant harvest and their main widget of success is dead cow elk.  Now if I'm looking at herd drivers I'll advocate for the herd drivers (cows) and allow more liberal bull harvest. Switch gears and discuss priorities, agricultural business vs treaty rights, I would again advocate for a formal agreement in the treaty which is firmly backed by sticky VI paragraph 2. Like always there is considerably more than meets the eye and many minds will not change regardless of commitments to resource management by tribes. I also acknowledge the need for agribusiness in this state as well as it being a key component of treaty negotiation. Wildlife in general has not received a fair representation and we are definitely weighted to the detriment of wildlife in overarching comprehensive management schemes.