Muzzleloader Regs change/concealed weapon

[bobcat]

I'm just looking at the words in the regulations and taking them just as they read.  I don't see anything in the ML wording that prohibits carrying a handgun without a CPL.  You say that it’s “very clear” but I don’t see it anywhere.  Where is that stated?  I'm trying to be argumentative, I just don't see it.

3. In addition to the above requirements, it is
unlawful to participate (hunt) in a muzzleloading
hunting season using a firearm which does
not meet the following specifications for a
muzzleloader. As in the past sabots are allowed.
New this year any type of projectile is allowed.
A modern handgun may be carried for personal
protection if that person possesses a concealed
pistol license as defined in RCW 9.41.070.Modern handguns cannot be used to hunt big
game or dispatch wounded big game during
a big game hunting season for muzzleloading
firearms.

[jackelope]

i still don't understand the mystery. it is now legal to carry your "modern" sidearm while muzzleloader hunting and archery hunting as long as you have a CWP permit... what is not clear about it?

in the past signing up for your archery or muzz permit created an exemption for you from the right to carry laws in this state. as of 2009 there is a modification or new law or whatever you want to call it allowing you to carry if you have a permit. (this is all written in my simpleton terms...i'm no lawyer)
seems crystal clear to me.

[WDFW-SUX]

I still think the NRA is going to stomp them for this new reg

[clay]

Here's what started the argument between my father (Smoke Pole) and I.

This quote (from the regs):
"A modern handgun may be carried for personal
protection if that person possesses a concealed
pistol license as defined in RCW 9.41.070."

WDFW makes it sound as though you are required to possess a Concealed Weapons Permit as defined in RCW 9.41.070 to carry a modern firearm.

The problem is that there are exceptions listed under that specific RCW that allow for it:

"RCW 9.41.060
Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.

 The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to: (9.41.050 is the
open carry law)

    ( Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such
as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if,
considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to
whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable
to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or
is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;"

My interpretation is that you can "OPEN CARRY" a firearm while hunting, fishing, camping, hiking etc.

I've emailed the director of WDFW and they are currently researching the topic. The reply back to me was CC'd to all of the Big Wigs in the WDFW, so there's probably some validity to my interpretation.

[WDFW-SUX]

Oops!

[Curly]

My interpretation is that you can "OPEN CARRY" a firearm while hunting, fishing, camping, hiking etc.

Your interpretation is correct about open carry AND concealed carry while hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, etc..............except when muzzleloader or archery hunting.......then you must have a CPL.  

[jackelope]

Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such
as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if,
considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to
whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable
to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or
is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;"

the important part of this is the lawful part...as in it is/was not lawful to carry during archery or muzz. seasons. you signed up for that when you bought your archery/muzz permit.

[bobcat]

That's right... you can legally carry a concealed weapon while "engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity."  Exept while archery or muzzleloader hunting. Then you must have a CPL. But who knows, Clay/Smoke Pole,  maybe you guys are correct. I hope so, because I will carry a handgun while muzzleloader hunting if I want to whether the law says I can or not. I normally would not want to carry the extra weight, but if for some reason I felt I needed it for protection, I would do it. It's a right guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment and I don't believe the state can take that away.

[clay]

"Your interpretation is correct about open carry AND concealed carry while hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, etc..............except when muzzleloader or archery hunting.......then you must have a CPL."


Doesn't say that boss.....nice try though. My interpretation is that if you're carrying a CONCEALED weapon that you would be required to have a CPL.

They would have written the EXCEPTION something like this: "Unless specifically forbidden by hunting regulations".

Furthermore, if they had a clue they would have mentioned it in the hunting regulations specifically.  

[clay]

One last thing:

Concealed carry requires a CPL. RCW states this.

Open Carry has exceptions. This is the basis of my argument.

[Curly]

Well, there is another thread somewhere on here where someone got a response from Mik at WDFW and he says you cannot open carry a modern handgun unless you have a CPL.  I agree that it is stupid.......but it is the WDFW we're talking about.

BTW, the sentence in the regs does not specify open or concealed carry......they simply say "carry".

[Curly]

One last thing:

Concealed carry requires a CPL. RCW states this.

Concealed carry does NOT require a CPL if you are lawfully involved in an outdoor activity.

[jackelope]

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,25105.msg289615.html#msg289615

from Kain's thread in the archery forum from a couple weeks ago.

Wildthing (DFW) to me
show details 8:17 AM
   
Reply

Thank you for your recent e-mail regarding the recently amended archery regulation now authorizing bowhunters with a valid concealed pistol license to carry a sidearm while archery hunting.  Your e-mail has been forwarded to me for a response.

 

Please be advised that the chief of our enforcement program has no authority to mandate any hunting rules or regulations.  The chief—along with all of our Fish and Wildlife Officers—is responsible for enforcing hunting laws and rules, not making them.

 

RCW 9.41.060(, Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms, authorizes an exception to the restriction on carrying firearms for “…any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping….”  The operative word to pay attention to is “lawful.”  Bowhunters in Washington State are regulated by rules promulgated by the Fish and Wildlife Commission.  Those rules are specific to bowhunters who choose to purchase a Washington State license to hunt big game with archery tackle.  The commission has delegated authority from the legislature to adopt rules governing the time, place and manner of lawful hunting activity.  Those rules can be as restrictive or as relaxed as they deem appropriate to the species hunted.

 

The commission has always been concerned about the potential for individual bowhunters to use a sidearm to unlawfully kill big game.  Knowing that individuals with concealed pistol licenses (CPL) are thoroughly vetted through a criminal background history check, the commission has a high level of confidence that CPL holders will not wish to jeopardize their license.  There is no such assurance with the general hunter who does not possess a CPL.

 

You should also know that representatives of the bowhunting community—not WDFW staff—are the ones that proposed this regulation to the Fish and Wildlife Commission and they are the ones that sought to distinguish between CPL holders and non-CPL holding archers.

 

Mik Mikitik

Department of Fish and Wildlife

Enforcement Program

Hunter Education Division

(360) 902-8408


from   Naithan Kain <naithankain@gmail.com>
to   commission@dfw.wa.gov,
wildthing@dfw.wa.gov,
director@dfw.wa.gov,
turcocmt@dfw.wa.gov,
TeamSpokane@dfw.wa.gov,
TeamEphrata@dfw.wa.gov,
TeamYakima@dfw.wa.gov,
TeamMillCreek@dfw.wa.gov,
TeamVancouver@dfw.wa.gov,
TeamMontesano@dfw.wa.gov

[CP]

I’ll try one more time then I have to go do some work.

There is nothing in the 2009 regulations that prohibits carrying a modern firearm during ML season.

The verbiage below merely states that it is legal to carry a modern handgun if you have a CPL, it does not state that it is illegal to carry a modern firearm without a CPL.  Big difference. 

A modern handgun may be carried for personal
protection if that person possesses a concealed
pistol license as defined in RCW 9.41.070.

[bobcat]

"IF" is the key word. So if a person does not have a CPL, then that person MAY NOT carry a modern handgun for personal protection. This is something we all should have learned in English class in the 3rd grade.

Geez, you sound almost as bad as Bill Clinton.