Muzzleloader Regs change/concealed weapon

[WDFW-SUX]

 

[clay]

Thanks for the response from the DFW............it certainly helped a bit.

I think his explanation of "lawful" is a reach in its entirety.

Hunting with a ML during the ML season is a LAWFUL activity.

I didn't say that I was hunting with the modern handgun (which I truthfully would never ever do).

Define lawful.

Does anyone else see this?

Seriously, am I living in a vaccum?

[Curly]

It has always been that carrying a modern handgun was prohibited during a ML season (even though legal to conceal carry or open carry per state law).  Doesn't matter if you did not use it to dispatch game.......it was still considered illegal.  The only difference this year is that WDFW has made an exception to allow CPL holders to carry.  They should allow everyone, but I suppose it is a step in the right direction.  Maybe in the future they can be convinced to even allow people w/out a CPL to pack.

[Kain]

They are saying you cannot carry a modern hand gun open or concealed unless you have a CPL while archery or muzzleload hunting.  Their point is if you carry a modern handgun w/o a CPL you are no longer engaging in a legal outdoor activity.  Because they made a rule the requires a CPL so that you would qualify for not needing a CPL.  Makes no sense!  You could carry your black powder pistol concealed w/o a CPL while hunting and be within the law.  I sicked the NRA on them over this and they are reviewing the new regs legality.  We will see where it goes.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,25105.45.html

"Just got this email today.  Looks like all our efforts might be working. This is in response to the NRA getting on them about this. 


Hello.  Thank you for your comments regarding the Fish and Wildlife Commission’s changes to WACs 232-12-051 and 232-12-054 allowing a hunter to carry a modern handgun during archery and muzzleloader seasons if he/she has a concealed weapons permit.  The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife is going to review these WAC changes and will provide a response to you once it has done so.

 

 

Lori Preuss, WSBA #33045

WDFW Criminal Justice Liaison &

Administrative Regulations Coordinator

Lori.preuss@dfw.wa.gov

360.902.2930

Fax 360.902.2155"

[clay]

I got the same EXACT email three days ago.

[Kain]

I got the same EXACT email three days ago.

That is a quote from the other thread on this.  It is a few days old.

[Kain]

Im glad to see other are getting involved in this.  I was feeling like everyone was giving up on it.

[jackelope]

the biggest question that comes to my mind is why nobody made a stink about it prior to this year when it was completely illegal period to carry a modern sidearm during muzzleloader or archery. why is it suddenly a giant red flag for you guys this year when they made it legal with the concealed carry permit?

[CP]

"IF" is the key word. So if a person does not have a CPL, then that person MAY NOT carry a modern handgun for personal protection. This is something we all should have learned in English class in the 3rd grade.

Geez, you sound almost as bad as Bill Clinton.   

I learned in the third grade not to read more into a sentence than what is written.  If the WDFW intends to make arrests and citations based on an unwritten “then that person MAY NOT” clause they will incur a lot of wasted court time.

I expect changes will be released soon.

I’ll refrain from countering your personal attack although it is definitely not appreciated.

[Kain]

the biggest question that comes to my mind is why nobody made a stink about it prior to this year when it was completely illegal period to carry a modern sidearm during muzzleloader or archery. why is it suddenly a giant red flag for you guys this year when they made it legal with the concealed carry permit?

Thats a good question and for me it was that it had just always been that way.  It was always one of those things I didnt like but for some reason I just didnt think I could do anything about it.  When they had the on-line survey I was so happy to see the change to allow us to carry.  But then they added the CPL requirement afterwards, they just kind of sneaked it in there.  Thats when I started talking about it on here and realized that they had been limiting our rights all along without (what I believe) the legal authority.

 It is a poor excuse but that is why my family and I never spoke up about it.

[Curly]

the biggest question that comes to my mind is why nobody made a stink about it prior to this year when it was completely illegal period to carry a modern sidearm during muzzleloader or archery. Why is it suddenly a giant red flag for you guys this year when they made it legal with the concealed carry permit?

Yeah.  Makes no sense.  They give a little concession, saying we can carry if we go get a CPL and now there is a big stink over it.........we couldn't carry at all before.

My fear is that the state will just change the RCW to eliminate the exception to conceal carry allowing carry while in the act of a lawful outdoor activity.

[Kain]

My fear is that the state will just change the RCW to eliminate the exception to conceal carry allowing carry while in the act of a lawful outdoor activity.

That is our point they already did that for us (archery and MZL hunters).  They dont have to eliminate the RCW they just have to add that a CPL is required in the hunting regs and it overwrites the RCW.  They could do that to any hunter group.  That is why we are complaining.

[Curly]

I just think there has been precident about the WDFW having rules that overwrite RCW's.  Previously we were not allowed to possess a modern firearm pistol while ML hunting.......concealed or not.  They are really not changing anything except allowing those people with CPL's to carry.  I'm not arguing that the WDFW made the correct decision, I'm just saying that they are not changing their long standing position very much.  (I think it is stupid to require a CPL for open carry.)  I don't like the fact that the WDFW assumes someone with a handgun is a poacher unless they have a CPL.

They may just go back to the way it was (not allow anyone to carry a pistol) if they get a bunch of heat over the new change.  I'm glad you guys are fighting it........I just hope it works out and doesn't backfire.

[bobcat]

A little info on Oregon's firearm possession rules:

Weapons Restrictions: Possession of Firearms

What Does it Mean to Hunters and Hunting in Oregon?

In 1995, Oregon Legislators adopted Oregon Revised Statute (ORS) 166.170 giving all authority to regulate possession of firearms solely to the Oregon Legislative Assembly.

In 2003, the Oregon Attorney General reviewed the statute and determined the Oregon Fish and Wildlife Commission (Commission) cannot limit what firearms can be carried or possessed during hunting seasons.

In the same opinion, the Oregon Attorney General confirmed that the Commission has statutory authority to regulate where, when, how and by whom wildlife are taken by hunting.

All ODFW hunting regulations and Oregon Administrative Rules (OAR) have been modified to comply with these changes concerning the possession of firearms during hunting seasons.

The Commission still determines the season dates, open hunt areas, bag limits, and tag numbers for game species.

The Commission still determines the weapon type that can be legally used to hunt during a specified season.
Requirements for weapons used to hunt with are independent of any weapon(s) the individual hunter may choose to carry while in the field hunting. Regulations regarding when a person may hunt for a particular species also still apply. For example, these regulations state that it is not legal to hunt with a centerfire or muzzleloading rifle without a valid unused deer or elk tag for that time period and area on the person during eastern Oregon buck deer seasons and many of the standard elk seasons (see HUNTING PROHIBITED on page 36 for the exact rule language).

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/resources/hunting/big_game/regulations/weapons.asp

[Smoke Pole]

I will try to redirect to the original point. Last years regs said "It is illegal to carry or possess any firearm during muzzleloading season which does not meet the following specification for a muzzleloader". Clearly you can't carry a modern pistol but later it says you can carry a black powder pistol.

That was removed and it now reads "In addition to the above requirements, it is unlawful to participate (hunt) in a muzzleloading
hunting season using a firearm which does not meet the following specifications for a muzzleloader."

They removed "carry or possess" and replaced them with "participate (hunt)". If they intended a cpl as the only legal method to carry a modern handgun they would have clarified the issue with the word "must".

That is a pistol in my pocket and I am happy to see you.