Problem Developing

[testar77]

First of all I am fairly new to this site, and I am annoyed that it took me this long to get here but oh well here I am.  Now for the issue.
I have been hunting for a while now, and have never really been interested in hunting Turkeys  ........................................... Until now.  I don't know what started it but I have an insatiable lust to drop a Tom this year!  I just went out and bought a few calls to start practicing/playing with.  Now I need to find some local ground to start searching for some real birds to practice on!!.  So a couple of questions.  What is the opinion of the masses in regards to the big Turkey Comp/Chokes you see advertised, worth it, not worth it, or just slap in a normal choke? Second, anyone from whatcom county willing to give some general info out on locations (not looking for specific hot spots or anything).  I did here that the release point was 5-10 mi NE of Acme, but that's not to say they stayed there.  I am waiting for a call back from a WDFW Biologist.  I have been watching this section closely for the last couple weeks and I am starting to feel like I am addicted to a drug I haven't even tried yet!!!    I am really scared of what might happen if I actually shoot one of these buggers!!!  So just in case are there any products out there similar to methadone that helps ease the crack like addiction I see coming??    Also I would be willing to trade some info for some decent bear hunting areas, for some local Turkey info.  I would like to practice here and get even semi capable before I drive to the heavenly side of the state to hunt them.  Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!!  Well maybe not by my wife lol.

Thanks, Toby

[wastickslinger]

Dont get hooked. You will need to seek therapy after. Same with shed hunting.

[MuleySniper]

Welcome to the site! Yeah, you definitely need a turkey choke. Some guys may say ya don't, but the first time I shot a turkey, I didn't have a turkey choke. It knocked it down for two seconds and it flew away. Ever since then, Ive used a turkey specific choke and have completely flattened birds in their tracks.
 
MS

[testar77]

The shotgun I plan on using already has a ported barrel, so I should probably look for just an extended choke then rather than a comp/choke combo.  Thoughts 

[Wacenturion]

First of all....welcome.  Second....the planned releases of Rio Grande turkey 5-10 miles north of Acme were cancelled by WDFW after landowner concerns regarding potential nuisance problems......a good thing as it was the wrong subspecies to begin with....but you can read about that on an old thread.  Sad you're waiting on the biologist to respond...it's common knowledge.
The proper choke is in my opinion is worth the money.  Can you kill turkeys without one....absolutely is using a full choke and you pattern your gun and know it's limitations.  Try different shot sizes.....say 4's through 6's to see what shoots best out of your particular gun.  Limit your shots to the yardage that patterns the most pellets within the kill zone...head and neck.....and don't exceed it.
I use a Kick's Gobbling Thunder....runs about $67 and provides the pattern I want in a turkey gun.  There are many on the market....many much cheaper.  Hopefully others will chime in with what they use.
I would recommend you head to the NE.....nothing like high bird densities to get you in the game.  Turkey hunting is all about being in situations with gobblers and learning how to react.  The high bird numbers will allow you to hopefully get some action under you belt quickly.  Get some maps from DNR of the area and look for state and BLM lands.....also Wildlife Areas....L.P.O. in Stevens and Sherman Creek across the bridge from Kettle Falls in Ferry County.  Good luck and welcome to the disease we call turkey hunting.  

[testar77]

Dang that is too bad that the release fell through, I found plenty of reading talking about the release but none talking about the cancellation.  From what I have read I do agree that they should probably release Easterns instead of Rio's.  Have you heard anything about future plans for Whatcom County?

[Wacenturion]

Yes....should have been Easterns.....not sure if anything will come about now.....WDFW probably isn't interested in pursuing any further releases.  I believe that the Rio option in Whatcom was just an appeasement so as to not have to release birds elsewhere in the state....they had to throw something on the table to make it look like they gave a you know what.....pretty much bet on it. 

[testar77]

So Wacenturion,

What would be the odds that if we were to get a bunch of hunters together here in Whatcom County to petition/ask repeatedly as a (hopefully) large group to have them plan another release program?  From the limited research I have done I believe you are involved with the Wild Turkey Foundation right?  Would that be something that they would assist in also?  Dealing with the WDFW would probably feel more like  but I would be willing to gather up the troops if it would even be within the REALM of possibility!  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Toby

[Wacenturion]

So Wacenturion,

What would be the odds that if we were to get a bunch of hunters together here in Whatcom County to petition/ask repeatedly as a (hopefully) large group to have them plan another release program?  From the limited research I have done I believe you are involved with the Wild Turkey Foundation right?  Would that be something that they would assist in also?  Dealing with the WDFW would probably feel more like  but I would be willing to gather up the troops if it would even be within the REALM of possibility!  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Toby

Toby....first of all I am not involved or affiliated with the National Wild Turkey Federation.  I used to be years ago, but have some major philosophical differences with he parent organization...key word here...parent, as in Edgefield, S.C. and their representatives.  I do not have a problem with the efforts of the volunteers that are the "real" organization, the members of the chapter system in state. 

There is a possibility that things could be resurrected in Whatcom.  I called Edgefield last year prior to the final public meetings in Whatcom county and found out that Easterns were available from Tennessee and other states.  They still will be for several years.  Of course getting Easterns would be contingent on a super fund approval and encumbrance of that expenditure by the Wa. State Chapter of the NWTF.  It would also involve a grass roots pr job involving the concerned landowners in Whatcom county that expressed concerns about nuisance problems.  They were not necessarily opposed to turkeys, but wanted assurances that any problems would be addressed.  WDFW could not make the case with Rios and backed away from the releases, to simplify what happened. 

As I have stated many times on this and other boards...it was an ill conceived exercise all the way around.  First we had WDFW where we wanted them...open to and moving forward on a Whatcom County release.  Then WDFW apparently left the choice of subspecies to NWTF biologists from Edgefield and the local NWTF biologist from Oregon who also had Washington as part of his area.  They (the idiots from the NWTF) said "we" were premature in releasing Easterns in western Washington...should have released Rios as they have done so well out west.  What a crock of crap.  If they knew anything at all about western Washington habitat, they would have know that was a stupid call.  They thought because Rios did well from Eugene south to California they would do well in Whatcom....wrong.  If you look at Oregon's harvest reports you'll see that no harvest of any turkey occurred in their management units north of Salem to Astoria....you know the areas of NW Oregon that resemble western Washington.  Good god...common sense out the window. 

Next... add to that the rush by the Whatcom county chapter to get turkeys released.  Not blaming the chapter for wanting birds in their back yard, but they needed to advocate the right subspecies.  It cost them a golden opportunity. 

Last....ignoring the landowners till the end of the process.  They should have been involved and assured that there would not be a problem....with Easterns, that is.  Easterns are a different bird, spending the majority of their time inside the woodline...you know....in the woods, and not elsewhere.  They also do not congregate in large flocks during the winter like Rio's and Merriam's looking for handouts.  An easy sell if you know how to sell it.

I would consider getting involved.  I feel it's important to continue the enhancement and expansion of the wild turkey program statewide, and especially in western Washington where we didn't finish the job.  It will require all the players from before, plus others.  The place to start would be with the local sportsmen and the Whatcom county NWTF chapter and then working it up through the state chapter to initially get it back on the table.  WDFW would have to go with it if everyone, including landowners buy into it.  They would look stupid if they didn't approve when everyone else did.  Anyway....food for thought.   
       

[testar77]

Thanks for all of your input Wacenturion.  I guess first I will track down the local chapter and see what their thoughts are, and go from there.  I would REALLY love to see wild Turkeys thrive here in Whatcom County, and I agree with you we have the perfect terrain to accomodate Easterns.

[Wacenturion]

Let me know what you find out....and if you need some support.

[turkeydancer]

    Well said WaCent ...

My understanding is that the NWTF national is supposed to send 2 biologists to meet with the local biologist and WDFW Upland bird manager this summer to try and get trap and transfers going again in this state.  However the new local biologist is again from Oregon, and just covering a few "loose" habitat enhancement type projects left over from the last one.  Totally agree everyone should be involves up front, all concerns expressed and addressed, a well formulated plan developed and presented, and then followed by $$$ and actions.  Not like the last fiasco  

Just so everyone knows and there is no ?'s ... I recently joined the ranks of those not seeing eye to eye with the NWTF's (Not Worth The Frustration) paid representative(s), and only will be involved in the future at my local chapter level in a non-leadership position with my amazing volunteers (and very good friends). Basically went straight from frustrated to disillusioned in under 2 seconds .....          

[Wacenturion]

Turkeydancer......trap and transfer is easy....just need to do it.  Alleviates problems in NE (not as many as WDFW would have you believe) and facilitates getting additional Merriams  in Klickitat, Chelan, Kittitas, Yakima, and Okanogan counties, thereby expanding opportunity and relieving some of the pressure in the NE..  Something WDFW program mgrs and local bios don't want. 

I think we need to force the issue..... I might be willing to get involved counter WDFW and NWTF.....although they would probably perfer I went away.... lol.

Oh....and the new Bio is from Idaho.  Used to work for Pheasants Forever.........

[turkeydancer]

WaCent - Understood ...

Testar77 - You can go to www.nwtf.org and click on the in your state ... probably direct you to the RD ... or better yet look up Lyle Galloway in your phone book (I believe he is the local chapter prez and also current state chapter prez.).

[testar77]

Interesting, the same guy is listed as the contact person for EVERY NWTF chapter in washington state!!!

[turkeydancer]

Look up Lyle Galloway in your phone book ... I'll try to pm you with the info also.

I used to get at least one call each month from the national site ... until the new RD thought he should be the official contact for every chapter (instead of the chapter prez). Know how many calls I have received in the last two-and-a-half years years?   Good guess - zip !  The "former grocery store clerk" had nothing to do with building the chapter into one of the strongest in the state, but figures he should be the run to manage it ...      Figures you work for him ...        

hhhhmmmm, he doesn't pay my wages ... so I'm a volunteer, not his employee ...He's never here except to collect the money after the banquet once a year ... didn't care about any thank yous, but if he doesn't like the way things are done, feel free to do it yourself ... I'm not into the worship mode ...   Nope, Not Worth The  Frustration (NWTF). 

[Wacenturion]

Interesting, the same guy is listed as the contact person for EVERY NWTF chapter in washington state!!!

That's the way they work it...........we used to use the Chapter Presidents as individual contacts years ago, but I guess that was looked on as a lack of control by NWTF....don't want volunteers telling potential new members or public anything, now do we......lol.

[Wacenturion]

Oops......TD, should have read your post first as I said the same thing before going to the next page.  Oh well, you know it will be viewed as rebellion if a certain someone (buddy of yours from the grocery store) reads it...lol.

[testar77]

LOL Sounds like they should just drop the N from their Initials and just stick with WTF???  I appreciate all the help, and I talked to a friend of mine this afternoon who would be considered to be a highly influential person in the area, and is also a Turkey addict, and he would LOVE to see a Turkey population get established here, and would be willing to help as much as possible.

TD- that would be great to get that info from you since there is more than one Lyle Galloway in the phone book.  I take it that you also live here in Whatcom County?

[testar77]

Wacenturion:  I tried to reply to your pm but it says your inbox is full.  I will try again later.

[Wacenturion]

Ok....I dumped a bunch....mailbox open now.  Thanks for the heads up by the way.  Didn't realize I had that much over time...lol.

[Phantom Gobbler]

Guys,

Please keep in mind the Skykomish, Snoqualmie and Snohomish Valleys as another possible site for Easterns if we can break the political logjams.  I do agree that Whatcom County should be a high priority for transplants.

[bearpaw]

Welcome to an awesome sport.

Regarding turkey chokes.....I have seen dozens of guys try to hunt the first year with a full choke.....most are sorry in a couple days and they show up the next year with the proper equipment....do yourself and the turkeys a huge favor and spend the money to get an extra full choke.....if you don't....there's about 80% chance you will wish you had....before you are back home.

Good luck and have fun.......

[turkeydancer]

Testar - From the Gig Harbor area ... Lyle's a friend (ie - not the grocery store clerk) ... writing myself a sticky note so I will remember tonight to send you the info tonight.

[strutnrut1984]

trap and transfer programs have done an amazing job in other states, i grew up in pennsylvania and as a boy in the early 70s it was rare to see turkeys other than in the north central mountains. by the mid 80s every county in the state had huntable populations. now there isnt a block of woods or forest that there isnt a turkey in. living here in whacom county since 2004. ive encounterd a few small flocks of birds. the habitat here is perfect for easterns they thrive in thick woods back east. and theres plenty of edges for them. and like others have said they are not a nuisance. mostly they are in flocks of 10 to 20 or so birds. ive hunted easterns over 30 yrs in many different states. they would be a good thing here also.

[Wacenturion]

strutnrut........thanks for your comments.  It's nice to see someone who has had a good deal of experience in another state (Pa.) with Easterns verify what I've been relating about their suitability to western Washington and their lack of nuisance problems on this thread and others. 

Washington did have an large scale introduction program beginning in the mid 80's, and shortly after a few years an aggressive trap and transfer program in state in conjunction with continued introductions of birds from several states.  Unfortunately the lions share numbers wise was with Rios and Merriams.  Easterns were harder to get.

Then the NWTF got itself involved as a middle man in the negotiations between states.  That really slowed it down as the NWTF inserted a price tag per bird by subspecies.  Washington as an example would pay Iowa $500 per Eastern (as they were harder to trap than Rios or Merriams which were much less), which did not include freight costs etc.  This was done by a superfund transfer between the Wa. chapter system of the NWTF to the Iowa chapter system.....with all the money being held in state accounts by the NWTF in Edgefield.  They (the NWTF) also saw fit to charge an administrative fee of I believe 1% for coordinating the transfer.  Starting to see why I don't support the NWTF at the national level?  There was no need for the admin. fee let alone the charge per bird.....it was all done with handshakes and in some cases wildlife trades.  Most were free...you know...we are glad to help out.  You see with the NWTF it's all about the almighty buck...even if it makes it much harder for states to afford to get birds.  My blood pressure rises everytime of think of their manipulative screw jobs.

On top of that some powers to be who took over the program(since 2000) within the WDFW are opposed to turkeys and their introduction or spread...fact.  When the turkey program was doing its thing in the 80's and 90's these same types did whatever they could to slow the process down....bulls*** politics.   Since 2000 they just disguise it by using a statewide plan, which initially stalled things until it was completed, then when it was done it basically denied future releases for one stupid reason or another.....not scientific fact....just sky is falling, I don't like them mentality.  Of course "they" don't hunt.

So between the NWTF at the national level and the WDFW here at home it a big cluster "you know what".   But again....thanks for telling it from your perspective as a Pa. transplant.....it is appreciated. 

Oh....and if people believe the NWTF at the national level is concerned about your turkey resource here....just watch them or look back and try to find when they aggressively took on the WDFW for the good of their volunteers and Washington sportsmen.  Doesn't happen....have to get along now...don't want to rock the boat....again....just give us your money...and stop complaining....again FACT!!!!