2 or 3 pellets? Copper no good?

[Recon]

I have a few questions that some of you with more knowledge may be able to help with. I am new to muzzleloaders, I am shooting the CVA optima with peep sights. I bought a bunch of different types of bullets and powders to try. Barnes tmz 290gr seems to shoot the best for me. When I zeroed this round I was using 2 777 pellets so 100gr. Easily able to hit the 200yard pie plate with this setup. However, I was told by someone that has more experience than me that I should be using 3 pellets of white hots. He said 2 is not enough powder. He also mentioned I should ditch the Barnes and get like an all lead for elk. Should I switch my setup to 3 pellets instead of 2 for elk? Are all copper sabots not good for elk?
Thanks for any insight.
kyle

[usmc74]

Neither of my 2 elk objected to being shot with 110gr T7 powder and Barnes 290 copper bullets.

[10thmountainarcher]

What are you using for ignition?

[Mtnwalker]

I have a few questions that some of you with more knowledge may be able to help with. I am new to muzzleloaders, I am shooting the CVA optima with peep sights. I bought a bunch of different types of bullets and powders to try. Barnes tmz 290gr seems to shoot the best for me. When I zeroed this round I was using 2 777 pellets so 100gr. Easily able to hit the 200yard pie plate with this setup. However, I was told by someone that has more experience than me that I should be using 3 pellets of white hots. He said 2 is not enough powder. He also mentioned I should ditch the Barnes and get like an all lead for elk. Should I switch my setup to 3 pellets instead of 2 for elk? Are all copper sabots not good for elk?
Thanks for any insight.
kyle

You're probably looking at 250-300 fps difference between 2 pellets and 3. I don't know what your gun is rated for as far as max charge. Right now I'd guess you're in the neighborhood of 1650-1700 fps with the 2, so you can plug that into a ballistic calculator to get a guess of what your ballistics and energy are out to 200 yards. Another option if you want a little more oomf could be switching to the magnum 777 pellets.

[usmc74]

RWS Musket caps.  I use the T7 FFF powder.

[WSU]

That will kill elk just fine.  I wouldn't change a thing if its working.  I've used the same or very similar load (same bullets and between 100-120) grains 777 and have killed a handful of bulls in the past 5 or 6 years (one a year).  I usually find the bullet under the hide on the far side but did get one pass through. 

[10thmountainarcher]

RWS Musket caps.  I use the T7 FFF powder.

My apologies I was asking the OP what he was using. I never had good luck with pellets and musket caps because the burn was so inconsistent. I’m talking like 8” variance between impacts. My buddy is using my ML and put a 209 conversion on it and it’s shooting the 777 pellets great. Musket cap I had to use the 777 loose.

[WSU]

RWS Musket caps.  I use the T7 FFF powder.

My apologies I was asking the OP what he was using. I never had good luck with pellets and musket caps because the burn was so inconsistent. I’m talking like 8” variance between impacts. My buddy is using my ML and put a 209 conversion on it and it’s shooting the 777 pellets great. Musket cap I had to use the 777 loose.

I also prefer loose but never had all that many ignition issues with 777 pellets.  I did have issues with blackhorn.

[Recon]

What are you using for ignition?

Im using 209 Primers.

[Recon]

I have a few questions that some of you with more knowledge may be able to help with. I am new to muzzleloaders, I am shooting the CVA optima with peep sights. I bought a bunch of different types of bullets and powders to try. Barnes tmz 290gr seems to shoot the best for me. When I zeroed this round I was using 2 777 pellets so 100gr. Easily able to hit the 200yard pie plate with this setup. However, I was told by someone that has more experience than me that I should be using 3 pellets of white hots. He said 2 is not enough powder. He also mentioned I should ditch the Barnes and get like an all lead for elk. Should I switch my setup to 3 pellets instead of 2 for elk? Are all copper sabots not good for elk?
Thanks for any insight.
kyle

You're probably looking at 250-300 fps difference between 2 pellets and 3. I don't know what your gun is rated for as far as max charge. Right now I'd guess you're in the neighborhood of 1650-1700 fps with the 2, so you can plug that into a ballistic calculator to get a guess of what your ballistics and energy are out to 200 yards. Another option if you want a little more oomf could be switching to the magnum 777 pellets.

You know I did know the exact FPS because I shot through my chrono but of course, I can't find where I wrote it down at.
The rifle is rated for a magnum charge. I believe the book says 150gr pelletized or equivalent. the only reason I didn't want to change is I didn't want to rezero it. But I think maybe I will anyways just to be safe and know.

[Recon]

Thanks for the responses great info. One other thing I forgot is during zeroing I was told I shouldn't clean but every 4 or so rounds. However, when you do this the rifle is shooting faster every time and I was getting inconsistent groups. Once I started cleaning before every shot I was able to get down to 1" groups at 100yards. Do most of you clean after every shot to establish zero?

[Mtnwalker]

Thanks for the responses great info. One other thing I forgot is during zeroing I was told I shouldn't clean but every 4 or so rounds. However, when you do this the rifle is shooting faster every time and I was getting inconsistent groups. Once I started cleaning before every shot I was able to get down to 1" groups at 100yards. Do most of you clean after every shot to establish zero?

In your scenario I'd zero off of a clean barrel because that's what you'll be hunting with and your first shot is what counts with a muzz. After zeroing then I'd figure out what it does dirty incase of a follow up shot when hunting. My gun holds zero well for 3 or 4 shots dirty but I have friends who get a poi shift after the 1st shot like you are explaining.

[Recon]

Thanks for the responses great info. One other thing I forgot is during zeroing I was told I shouldn't clean but every 4 or so rounds. However, when you do this the rifle is shooting faster every time and I was getting inconsistent groups. Once I started cleaning before every shot I was able to get down to 1" groups at 100yards. Do most of you clean after every shot to establish zero?

In your scenario I'd zero off of a clean barrel because that's what you'll be hunting with and your first shot is what counts with a muzz. After zeroing then I'd figure out what it does dirty incase of a follow up shot when hunting. My gun holds zero well for 3 or 4 shots dirty but I have friends who get a poi shift after the 1st shot like you are explaining.

Cool thanks I think that makes the most sense too. I mean the poi isn’t horrible but the group at a 100 yards opens up to 3-5” by the 4th shot. Good point about tracking follow up shots in case one is required at least the. I can Kentucky windage it.

[dilleytech]

That Barnes is a great bullet. Our 3 bulls in the last two years all agree they do a great job infront of 110gr of pyrodex loose powder.

[raydog]

I don’t know if I shared this before here. 290 grain Barnes tez

[HntnFsh]

I've got a few Barnes bullets like that. Including the one in my avatar.

[ctwiggs1]

My setup:
110Gr loose 777 powder
LeHigh Defense controlled fracture 265gr
MMP Sabots

My cow two years ago dropped in her tracks
My bull last year made it to a ditch about 30 yards away and then he fell.

Both had injuries to all thoracic organs.  These bullets are downright devastating. 

I have never had problems with loose powder.  I've had several issues with pellets.

[Sabotloader]

My setup:
110Gr loose 777 powder
LeHigh Defense controlled fracture 265gr
MMP Sabots

And that is a very good load, bullet, accurate, and will thump the heck out of an animal!

Not quite the same load as yours but equal results!

My cow two years ago dropped in her tracks
My bull last year made it to a ditch about 30 yards away and then he fell.

Both had injuries to all thoracic organs.  These bullets are downright devastating. 

I have never had problems with loose powder.  I've had several issues with pellets.

I tried pellets for awhile... a short while but have always been more than satisfied with good old volume loads of loose powder  - either T7 or BH

[ctwiggs1]

My setup:
110Gr loose 777 powder
LeHigh Defense controlled fracture 265gr
MMP Sabots

And that is a very good load, bullet, accurate, and will thump the heck out of an animal!

Not quite the same load as yours but equal results!

My cow two years ago dropped in her tracks
My bull last year made it to a ditch about 30 yards away and then he fell.

Both had injuries to all thoracic organs.  These bullets are downright devastating. 

I have never had problems with loose powder.  I've had several issues with pellets.

I tried pellets for awhile... a short while but have always been more than satisfied with good old volume loads of loose powder  - either T7 or BH

I'd hope you'd say that considering you're the one I learned it from!