Coastal shutdown

[duckmen1]

Even with the lower runs across the board including the Quinault. They continue to run a hatchery program for multiple rivers using the broodstock program. On low return years there run is still plenty strong. And they get a ton of fish. Where our rivers don't see any. Some years will have better returns then others due to factors at play but even so if the Res. Played the same game wdfw is they would have little fish at all returning there too no matter the location. But they produce a lot of smolt and release which in fact keeps a pretty solid run of fish to have a fishery up there. Cut there program like wdfw does and let's see if any guided trips continue. Look back on the puyallup river/carbon river. Used to be an amazing fishery for how many fish were pulled out. Before a lot of the younger guys times. But talk to old timers that used to fish it back when. They said awesome things. Then the program was diminished and well there are virtually no steelhead returning 20 plus years later. Antis got there was about hatchery fish being bad and the plants are gone. Well native fish never returned. Point is yes some habitat is better but even in the areas with good habitat and fish production you see cut backs in runs. The reason for hatcheries is if we need to mitigate for habitat loss, pollution, climate, reasons etc to see fish returns that's what we should be doing. Instead pointing the finger at all hatcheries are bad and having programs cut completely so far has not benefitted any areas for returning native fish. Now the Native fish numbers are even lower as predation also impacts solely them and other factors. I can go on and on with thoughts about it. But one thing I can say for certain is if we keep allowing our programs to be cut. Our license costs go up and opportunity is taken away. And we don't see any benefit to the species with anything we are hit with. I am happy to sit back on the sidelines and watch what I love rebuild. But with our department handling the way they are I will never watch it rebuild. I am watching it dissappear more and more every year in our great state with fishing and hunting. And its a sad thing. So everytime I have to modify for success that is what I do. But then thinking about it more that is more stress I and we put on other species of fish and game. Ultimately continuing the cycle of all populations of fish and game lowering any time we suffer from one loss. It will continue to make more loss elsewhere from more pressure.

[duckmen1]

Salmon Runs are suffering too. Does that mean we should cut all the programs there too? Or modify. Just trying to understand the thought about that comment of if steelhead runs are suffering why have a hatchery program.
It is more than just the fishery for our benefit. But also the benefit of the species.

[Stein]

If salmon recover it will truly be in spite of what the state is doing.

[Bullkllr]

Salmon Runs are suffering too. Does that mean we should cut all the programs there too? Or modify. Just trying to understand the thought about that comment of if steelhead runs are suffering why have a hatchery program.
It is more than just the fishery for our benefit. But also the benefit of the species.

I'm not arguing "should" for sure. At this point it is largely what the state is doing. I honestly think they'd be happier with a few remnant wild steelhead runs coming back as long as they don't have to deal with those 'pesky sports fishers'. Salmon continue to have more gov't/legislative support from the commercial fishing lobby (including tribes) and salmons' status as a food fish.

[Stein]

Be careful what you wish for there...

[duckmen1]

Salmon Runs are suffering too. Does that mean we should cut all the programs there too? Or modify. Just trying to understand the thought about that comment of if steelhead runs are suffering why have a hatchery program.
It is more than just the fishery for our benefit. But also the benefit of the species.

I'm not arguing "should" for sure. At this point it is largely what the state is doing. I honestly think they'd be happier with a few remnant wild steelhead runs coming back as long as they don't have to deal with those 'pesky sports fishers'. Salmon continue to have more gov't/legislative support from the commercial fishing lobby (including tribes) and salmons' status as a food fish.

No I get what you are saying. Just saying it from the point of anti hatchery view. To use the logic of one is suffering so get rid of it. Turns into get rid of it all. Because they do want salmon hatcheries closed too. We all mean a similar point of view on the topic here I believe. Just saying it from different perspectives of how others think. Which ends up coming off a bit wrong at times as to what we might think.

[Stein]

I would guess steelhead get less attention from WDFW largely because they get fewer steelhead related lawsuits.

[duckmen1]

100% agree. Like everyone keep saying here our department is run by political and not scientific or health of the fish and wildlife.

[Bullkllr]

Be careful what you wish for there...

I've been wishing for the exact opposite for as long as I can remember.

[ASHQUACK]

We are a very mobile fishing society, in fact transient. When a system starts to fail we, as a group move to the next system and fish it until it becomes a problem. Just look at how many guides no longer fish the Cowlitz and have moved to smaller systems that haven't/can't handle the pressure. If there was ever a reason to start producing "fishable" runs it would be that. If the "managers" could see it through actually saving the species instead of the financial cost it'd be amazing. but we all know how that is going to go. If no one (tribes included) steps up to raise more fish we will never see it again. Once the state takes something away we will never see it again. The Dosewalips is a prime example of that.