Master Hunters VOICE LOUD AND CLEAR!!!

[buck470]

Rob,
Awesome job, couldn't of explained it better.

Fellow MH.

[bbarnes]

Reply to ROB
First lets address the expense of the MH program, how much does this program cost the WDFW.With a budget billions in the hole in this state ,and the WDFW reducing officers witch we desperately need ,whats the priority Law Enforcement or MH.Now lets address the quality and skill of not all but some of the M H.How many shots should it take to harvest a elk? minimum of 6 or maximum of 8.If you guessed 6 or 8 your wright because 3 of last years pumas plains tag holders shoot that many times to kill there elk.Did i mention they shot at over 300 yards,so tell me the skill requirement they teach at the MH program to shoot projectiles at this range.I was sent a video of this and planned on putting it on u tube, but knew this would bring a bad lite on all of us.I guess this is the part where i have a hard time putting my personal beliefs aside.That would include but not limited to sportsmanship,ethics and did i mention morals.To address the unfortunate circumstance if i was put in charge of a elk damage program.First i would personally meet each and every one of the land owners.Second i would look at available habitat and see what the draw is.Third find out what conflicts there have been if ANY with general population of hunters.Forth try first giving out   trespass permition slips to general hunters and monitoring with a group like eves in the woods.Fifth possibility of building fences with volunteers,that would intern get to know that land owner and gain permission to hunt there and reduce the problem.I wont address the unfair because, in many of the previous threads its been addressed.
In closing ask youself who's been the problem is it to many animals, is it to many hunters,or is it MISMANAGEMENT.Please put me in charge you would see change, for the better.BBarnes keeping public lands public.

[swift]

In closing ask youself who's been the problem is it to many animals, is it to many hunters,or is it MISMANAGEMENT.Please put me in charge you would see change,

 bbarnes  sounds like a Obama quote   javascript:void(0);  PLEASE  Do not put ALL of us (master hunters) in one basket,you have to the best of my knowledge 
 only talked about westside problems,(not that we dont have some) I agree with some of your points. But it does help some farmers here on the eastside ( I DON'T KNOW sh!t ABOUT THE WESTSIDE ELK PROBLEM) MH are just TOOLS to the WDFW!!!!!! I Did it to help the farmers in my neck of the woods (and put meat in the freezer for my family !) I agree that if you CAN NOT take a one shot kill don't shoot! but the system is flawed. I have seen stuff I'm not happy about and called it in.   It goes along the line of one black eye one your wife and your a wife beater, But we can't get rid of all the wife beaters in the program at once it takes time. I'm sorry that you feel we (MH) are not a step above because we worked harder to git there(anyone can apply IF you do not have a game violation ) and willing to put the time in, It's not perfect but it works in 509 land!

[swift]

 HEY TODD  you pot stirrer you see what you started!!!!!!!!!

[Goldeneye]

Now lets address the quality and skill of not all but some of the M H.How many shots should it take to harvest a elk? minimum of 6 or maximum of 8.If you guessed 6 or 8 your wright because 3 of last years pumas plains tag holders shoot that many times to kill there elk.Did i mention they shot at over 300 yards,so tell me the skill requirement they teach at the MH program to shoot projectiles at this range.I was sent a video of this and planned on putting it on u tube, but knew this would bring a bad lite on all of us.I guess this is the part where i have a hard time putting my personal beliefs aside.That would include but not limited to sportsmanship,ethics and did i mention morals.

bbarnes,

  Referencing your quote above.  As well as being a MH I know a number of them.  All have many years of woods experience.  I have never witnessed any of them taking a shot at an elk where it requires spraying lead at range.  The shot I took this last year (which was not a master hunter special tag hunt) was just that "one shot one kill" thing you say most of us cannot do.  My spotter who is a marksmen for the state patrol (and a master hunter) commented on the shot and placement as being darn good given the angle I was given.  Myself and others I know spend lots of hours in the off season dialing in our handloads to avoid the situation you stated as seeing.  I have too much respect for the animal for that.

  One of the things this program is supposed to be about is the ethics not to spray lead as you state in your note.  If you indeed did video this, and matched the hunters with vehicles in your movie.  Turn them into Mik Mikitik at WDFW and they'll probably be pulled from the program.  MH are supposed to be able to operate in sensitive areas with minimal disruption to the public.

  It comes across in your posts that one of your goals is to do your best to pit one hunter group against another.  Please just pick a topic.  I believe what your subject aim is control and management of public lands.

[Rob]

Reply to ROB
First lets address the expense of the MH program, how much does this program cost the WDFW.With a budget billions in the hole in this state ,and the WDFW reducing officers witch we desperately need ,whats the priority Law Enforcement or MH.Now lets address the quality and skill of not all but some of the M H.How many shots should it take to harvest a elk? minimum of 6 or maximum of 8.If you guessed 6 or 8 your wright because 3 of last years pumas plains tag holders shoot that many times to kill there elk.Did i mention they shot at over 300 yards,so tell me the skill requirement they teach at the MH program to shoot projectiles at this range.I was sent a video of this and planned on putting it on u tube, but knew this would bring a bad lite on all of us.I guess this is the part where i have a hard time putting my personal beliefs aside.That would include but not limited to sportsmanship,ethics and did i mention morals.To address the unfortunate circumstance if i was put in charge of a elk damage program.First i would personally meet each and every one of the land owners.Second i would look at available habitat and see what the draw is.Third find out what conflicts there have been if ANY with general population of hunters.Forth try first giving out   trespass permition slips to general hunters and monitoring with a group like eves in the woods.Fifth possibility of building fences with volunteers,that would intern get to know that land owner and gain permission to hunt there and reduce the problem.I wont address the unfair because, in many of the previous threads its been addressed.
In closing ask youself who's been the problem is it to many animals, is it to many hunters,or is it MISMANAGEMENT.Please put me in charge you would see change, for the better.BBarnes keeping public lands public.

Yep I fully agree.  It is impossible to screen out poor shooters. And everyone has a bad day.  I know I have.  Took me 8 shots to down my Gemsbok on a trip where I averaged less than 2 shots per animal on the 10 others.  But at least there is some screening rather than an open drawing.

But you did not really answer the question in the scenario.  I worked with one of the damage control folks on my Master Hunter program.  Everything you listed that you would do, they already to.  And ironicaly they use the Master Hunter program to do many of them (meeting with land owners, providing tags, building fences).

So what you have listed 90% already in place.  If I understand correctly you are more or less promoting continuing the status quo which amounts to option #4.

So given that you are clearly a thoughtful person (that is not meant to be sarcastic at all-honestly you well written and respecful) and I don't think you really promote doing nothing, and the WDFW already:
-meets personally with the land owers
-evaluates habitat and tags in the different areas
-deals daily with the conflicts between land owners and hutners
-has a roubust feel free to hunt with written permission program
-Conduct many fence building programs for land owners on the States dime

What else would you (or anyone else) do within these constraints:  Budget, relationships with land owners, sensitive situations, etc.  How would you reduce damage payouts, maintain or improve relationships with land owners, and safely control the populations in sensitive areas?

One other thought I had on this.  How many people think that if the master hunter tags were eliminated along with the program, that more tags would be opened to the public?  I know I don't.

[huntnphool]

5.  Leverage a program like the master hunter program

Hey Rob, how about

"C" Since the MH program is held in such high regard with F&W and speak loudly of their "giving back" agenda, why not have youth, disabled or senior hunters use a portion of these tags but must be accomanied by a master hunter.

[Rob]

I would to that in a HEARTBEAT.  Cool idea. 

I'll suggest it to the advisory board and see if it gets wings.

[colockumelk]

5.  Leverage a program like the master hunter program

Hey Rob, how about

"C" Since the MH program is held in such high regard with F&W and speak loudly of their "giving back" agenda, why not have youth, disabled or senior hunters use a portion of these tags but must be accomanied by a master hunter.

That is an awsome idea. 

My only problem with the MH program around Ellensburg is that it is just a band aid for the elk damage problem.  The MH goes out shoots an elk and they stay away for a little bit but then they come back.  If the problem is really that serious then they need to put in some elk fences.   I understand this is expensive but they spend money on damages so why not fork up the cash to save money in the long run?   I have a problem with the WDFW allowing them to harvest two cows in an area where they don't even give out any antlerless permits, Muzzle Loaders don't have a season and archery guys are restricted to true spike only.  All because "the population is declining."  If this is so then why can MH harvest two of them.  30 years ago elk damage wasn't as big of a problem.  I think the problem is that hay farmers have figured out how to milk some cash out of the state.  I see cattle grazing in hay fields during the fall and winter all the time.  So how do they not damage the hay fields but the elk do?

My problem and I think that many on here's problem is not with the Master Hunters themselves the problem is with the WDFW and how they run the program.  The way they run it in Ellensburg is an excellant example of how it is improperly ran.  It's a band-aid and that's all it is.  Also I am a person who could take the MH exam but have no desire to.  There are not any MH hunts up in the high country.  Maybe someday when I get old and can't get around too well I'll take the exam.  But until then I prefer to stay up high where no one else is at.

I like huntphool's idea of having a disabled hunter or a youth hunter out there accompanied by a MH. 

[Bob33]

There is a lot of elk fencing going in.
http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories/2008/05/22/master-hunters-help-in-droves

[Rob]

My problem and I think that many on here's problem is not with the Master Hunters themselves the problem is with the WDFW and how they run the program. 

That may really be the heart of the issues discussed in this thread, especially when expanded beyond the MH program and to Damage Control.

I stated it earlier, but I'll state it again as in thinking about the issues contained in this thread it has been an epiphany for me.   The MH program is one of the TOOLS that the State uses to manage wildlife.  Personally I am very happy to see an opportunity available to general hunters (willing to put in the time) than hiring in professional hunters to do the job.

By attacking the MH program, I feel folks are missing what the real issues they are upset about are.  Instead we are advancing with a house divided strategy which weakens the cause of hunters statewide.

I could be 180 degrees off, but personally I am 100% fully confident that if the MH program was killed, the result would be zero additional tags available in drawings or alterations in general season rules.

I may have missed it colockumelk, but what is your reply to the scenario I put forth?  I hear the issues you call out, but how would you handle the situation described if you were in charge?

[Buckrub]

Rob,
What about option #6?

Landowner tags in place of money for damage.

[luvtohnt]

Rob,
What about option #6?

Landowner tags in place of money for damage.

Because then the land owners seem to think they can sell them for a "trespassing fee" and make huge money off of the bull tags. I talked to a guy that managed an orchard in the rattlesnake hills area and he said he had a client who paid a $10,000 trespass fee to hunt a bull on the orchard. He wanted one in particular that visited the orchard from the Hanford reach. We all know what the elk out there look like.

Brandon

[jackelope]

Because then the land owners seem to think they can sell them for a "trespassing fee" and make huge money

so who should hunt the landowner's land then...if not the master hunters and not the guy who pays to hunt it??
i'm curious and thats all. should you or i be able to for some reason? i have not taken much part in this discussion and don't really intend to. just happened to look and my curiosity is peaked.

i'm with rob on this statement:

Personally I am very happy to see an opportunity available to general hunters (willing to put in the time) than hiring in professional hunters to do the job.

[huntnphool]