Decline of hunting opportunities (onx articles)

[ljsommer]

I couldn't find the thread but there was recently a topic where folks were discussing how the advent of the modern western hunter (IE: Well informed, well equipped, well funded and willing to travel) has changed the hunting landscape. I was making anecdotal observations and it's interesting to see hard data on it.

Note that this info impacts lottery draws as well as OTC, and it impacts residential hunting experience as well as out of state, as the total hunt populations in the field (relative to huntable land) has skyrocketed. I was musing that the sport of hunting feels like a different animal, in the face of these changes to the landscape. From the article:

"Between 2016 and 2021, the number of buck antelope tags in Wyoming that could be drawn with zero preference points in the regular drawing has been nearly cut in half. And of those zero-point hunts that do remain, most are in units that consist of mostly private land or that have very difficult public land access.

All across the West, demand for tags and hunting opportunities has seen unprecedented growth. In Montana, for instance, the overall nonresident Big Game Combo tag has gone from a 100% draw rate in 2016 to about 54% in the most recent draw. In 2021, there were more than 11,000 nonresident applicants who were unsuccessful in the Combo tag draws.

Colorado, the undisputed king of hunting opportunity in the West, has seen overall applicant numbers and participation skyrocket. Nonresident limited-entry deer and elk applicants have grown by nearly 50% since 2016, and residents have seen an increase of about 14,000 applicants in that same period.

And as the last remaining stronghold for true nonresident, over-the-counter (OTC) bull elk hunt opportunities in the West, Colorado’s public lands are getting crowded. According to Colorado Wildlife & Parks, in 2021 the total number of over the counter elk tags sold across all seasons was greater than 92,000. If you factor in the former OTC archery units that transitioned to draw in 2020, tag sales in OTC areas are at an all-time high. Unfortunately, it’s getting increasingly common to hear stories about some of Colorado’s most popular hunt areas feeling more like an amusement park than an isolated backcountry experience."

https://www.onxmaps.com/hunt/blog/hunting-draw-odds-overcoming-increasing-demand
https://www.onxmaps.com/hunt/blog/how-to-draw-hunting-tags

[Platensek-po]

Will be interesting to see if anything changes for the next few years as the gov checks are no longer available and people have to work and keep kids in school again. It’s also not just hunting but the outdoors in general. Sooo much harder to draw whitewater permits as well the last couple years and so far this year has not looked much different

[buckfvr]

Ever expanding population dilutes opportunity and its onward and upward for the population.

[Parasite]

I've pretty much decided to give up on hunting in 2022 due to declining opportunities and less enjoyment. I only plan on going after whitetail deer in Illinois and that's it. I'd rather spend my time fishing. I hate the point schemes (they are not systems), declining numbers of places to hunt, units, limited seasons, too many rules, and excessive fees. I'll go buy beef in the store.

[Stein]

Sad thing is that grim picture is so much better than what is going on here.

It's certainly a trend, but they cherry picked the WY antelope data to include real bad winter kill years which is not expected to be the new norm.

Hopefully articles like that dampen people, I think it will at least plateau once the people that have never hunting in the west show up, drive some roads and realize it isn't like on TV.  I bet a bunch are done after one or two years.

[millerwheeler]

I've pretty much decided to give up on hunting in 2022 due to declining opportunities and less enjoyment. I only plan on going after whitetail deer in Illinois and that's it. I'd rather spend my time fishing. I hate the point schemes (they are not systems), declining numbers of places to hunt, units, limited seasons, too many rules, and excessive fees. I'll go buy beef in the store.

While I see your perspective, don’t you feel the heritage, challenge , time spent out and about  are better than just quitting ? I’m right there with the frustration but can’t imagine my life or my families life without hunting and all the joy it brings even without a successful harvest every time
As sportsman we all need each other

[Parasite]

Since I'm just reallocating the time to fishing, then the answer is no,  I  am not worried about giving up on hunting.

I've pretty much decided to give up on hunting in 2022 due to declining opportunities and less enjoyment. I only plan on going after whitetail deer in Illinois and that's it. I'd rather spend my time fishing. I hate the point schemes (they are not systems), declining numbers of places to hunt, units, limited seasons, too many rules, and excessive fees. I'll go buy beef in the store.

While I see your perspective, don’t you feel the heritage, challenge , time spent out and about  are better than just quitting ? I’m right there with the frustration but can’t imagine my life or my families life without hunting and all the joy it brings even without a successful harvest every time
As sportsman we all need each other

[ljsommer]

To add a little more perspective to my original post - I am not frustrated or burned out on hunting, and as it's one of my primary focuses for the foreseeable future (in terms of recreation) I am willing to invest the money necessary to actually go have a good hunt.
That said, I think the trend is concerning, and the idea that you've got thousands of hunters who are applying for everything in every state possible really does feel like the spirit of hunting has changed. The points systems don't help, but they're such a cash cow that they're not going away.

On that topic, I meant to ask: What are all these fish and wildlife state agencies doing with this newfound windfall of wheelbarrow loads of cash?

[idaho guy]

Sad thing is that grim picture is so much better than what is going on here.

It's certainly a trend, but they cherry picked the WY antelope data to include real bad winter kill years which is not expected to be the new norm.

Hopefully articles like that dampen people, I think it will at least plateau once the people that have never hunting in the west show up, drive some roads and realize it isn't like on TV.  I bet a bunch are done after one or two years.

I hope you are right and I do tend to agree with you. (probably wishful thinking on my part  )I don't think its hunting that is blowing up just WESTERN hunting and that is where I agree with Matt Rinella on the negative of sm. Hopefully people have a reality check on the hype created over western hunting when they actually experience it. I have actually been thinking about some deer hunts in midwest and southern states lol. Probably hardly any competition since they are all heading west! The prices and available tags are way better than most western states. 

[jrebel]

This has been a cyclic problem that is quite often driven by a thriving economy.  I remember when Montana use to be an every other year guaranteed draw for their combo (deer / elk) tag.  Basically if you didn't get drawn one year, you were guaranteed to draw the next.  The economy went to crap and for about 6 years you could almost guarantee going yearly.  The last 5-6 years we have had a booming economy so we are back to a 50% chance.  Give it another year or two and the democrats will drive this economy so far into the dirt the average person won't be able to afford gas to drive to work.....let alone Montana....and odds will improve. 

Same is true for guided hunts.  Right now you may have to book a few years out and guides are thriving.  It will get to where prices drop and they are begging for hunters as the economy doesn't support paying guide prices.  Just ask a guide that's been in the business for a couple decades. 

Very cyclic.....

[Jingles]

"Between 2016 and 2021, the number of buck antelope tags in Wyoming that could be drawn with zero preference points in the regular drawing has been nearly cut in half. And of those zero-point hunts that do remain, most are in units that consist of mostly private land or that have very difficult public land access.

Totally believable all one has to do is see the number of shows on the outdoors shows and see the number of the "East Coasters" that are coming west for their hunts.

[Bareback]

 

Applies to fishing too. When fuel exceeds 100 bones for the day, participation drops……. $5/gallon is just around the corner.

[metlhead]

Invest in dirt and hunt your own critters. The south figured that out years ago with the lack of quality public land. It just takes a focused goal and a budget.

[HooknoseHunter]

Invest in dirt and hunt your own critters. The south figured that out years ago with the lack of quality public land. It just takes a focused goal and a budget.

While I agree that buying property is always a good thing I PRAY we in the NW ever have to move to the leased land system like they do in the South. I’ve lived in the south (Arkansas/Alabama/Texas) for 11 out of the last 18 years and I can tell you personally that leases and hunting clubs SUCK. You have to follow the clubs”rules” and then designate which stand or area you plan to hunt blah blah blah. It’s not real hunting. Like others posted above, I could care less to harvest an animal, I just enjoy family, friends, guns and beer. Not necessarily in that order. As I’ve gotten older I mainly hunt on my property or families property but the option to hunt on vast swathes of public land is a unique thing to the west and we should fight to keep it! I will say the only thing that annoys me out here is people with OnX who make it their lives work to access land locked public ground. Let the land owners enjoy their fruits.

[andrew_in_idaho]

Invest in dirt and hunt your own critters. The south figured that out years ago with the lack of quality public land. It just takes a focused goal and a budget.

While I agree that buying property is always a good thing I PRAY we in the NW ever have to move to the leased land system like they do in the South. I’ve lived in the south (Arkansas/Alabama/Texas) for 11 out of the last 18 years and I can tell you personally that leases and hunting clubs SUCK. You have to follow the clubs”rules” and then designate which stand or area you plan to hunt blah blah blah. It’s not real hunting. Like others posted above, I could care less to harvest an animal, I just enjoy family, friends, guns and beer. Not necessarily in that order. As I’ve gotten older I mainly hunt on my property or families property but the option to hunt on vast swathes of public land is a unique thing to the west and we should fight to keep it! I will say the only thing that annoys me out here is people with OnX who make it their lives work to access land locked public ground. Let the land owners enjoy their fruits.

You had me until your last sentence, the ability to buy some dirt should not entitle you or anyone else to dirt that is owned by the public trust any more than the rest of us. Allowing the landowners to enjoy “their fruits” as you say is a long ways from what you seem to be implying in that elitist statement.


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[idaho guy]

Invest in dirt and hunt your own critters. The south figured that out years ago with the lack of quality public land. It just takes a focused goal and a budget.

While I agree that buying property is always a good thing I PRAY we in the NW ever have to move to the leased land system like they do in the South. I’ve lived in the south (Arkansas/Alabama/Texas) for 11 out of the last 18 years and I can tell you personally that leases and hunting clubs SUCK. You have to follow the clubs”rules” and then designate which stand or area you plan to hunt blah blah blah. It’s not real hunting. Like others posted above, I could care less to harvest an animal, I just enjoy family, friends, guns and beer. Not necessarily in that order. As I’ve gotten older I mainly hunt on my property or families property but the option to hunt on vast swathes of public land is a unique thing to the west and we should fight to keep it! I will say the only thing that annoys me out here is people with OnX who make it their lives work to access land locked public ground. Let the land owners enjoy their fruits.

You had me until your last sentence, the ability to buy some dirt should not entitle you or anyone else to dirt that is owned by the public trust any more than the rest of us. Allowing the landowners to enjoy “their fruits” as you say is a long ways from what you seem to be implying in that elitist statement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

   

Agreed everything made sense till disliking people finding access to public ground with on x? Kinda backwards if you love the ability to freely roam public land out west, one of the biggest issues to maintaining that freedom is unlocking public land cut off by private. Confused

[follow maggie]

Invest in dirt and hunt your own critters. The south figured that out years ago with the lack of quality public land. It just takes a focused goal and a budget.

While I agree that buying property is always a good thing I PRAY we in the NW ever have to move to the leased land system like they do in the South. I’ve lived in the south (Arkansas/Alabama/Texas) for 11 out of the last 18 years and I can tell you personally that leases and hunting clubs SUCK. You have to follow the clubs”rules” and then designate which stand or area you plan to hunt blah blah blah. It’s not real hunting. Like others posted above, I could care less to harvest an animal, I just enjoy family, friends, guns and beer. Not necessarily in that order. As I’ve gotten older I mainly hunt on my property or families property but the option to hunt on vast swathes of public land is a unique thing to the west and we should fight to keep it! I will say the only thing that annoys me out here is people with OnX who make it their lives work to access land locked public ground. Let the land owners enjoy their fruits.

You had me until your last sentence, the ability to buy some dirt should not entitle you or anyone else to dirt that is owned by the public trust any more than the rest of us. Allowing the landowners to enjoy “their fruits” as you say is a long ways from what you seem to be implying in that elitist statement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

   

Agreed everything made sense till disliking people finding access to public ground with on x? Kinda backwards if you love the ability to freely roam public land out west, one of the biggest issues to maintaining that freedom is unlocking public land cut off by private. Confused

 

[HooknoseHunter]

My comments were very elitist. That’s not who I am and I regret them. Good luck and God bless to everyone on the site.

[Wphunt]

This goes back to some stuff Matt Rinella talked about. I don’t agree with everything he had to say but a lot of it I did. There probably aren’t more hunters than there have been historically. There are way more hunters going farther and hunting more though. There are more guys coming from the east but there are also a bunch of guys with YouTube channels getting 3+ elk tags per year, plus deer antelope etc. That makes more people from the east travel west to hunt and more people try to be influencers, eating up all of the tags. I have no problem with people hunting out of state or coming from the east or guiding/outfitting. A bunch of people trying to make a living by killing more than they  need of a very limited resource is what I do have an issue with. Some “influencers” do a better job than others. The content focused more on instruction is good and a few do a good job with the “why” of hunting. A lot of others are just about kill shots every week. I go back and forth on this, but it for sure eats up tags.

[idaho guy]

This goes back to some stuff Matt Rinella talked about. I don’t agree with everything he had to say but a lot of it I did. There probably aren’t more hunters than there have been historically. There are way more hunters going farther and hunting more though. There are more guys coming from the east but there are also a bunch of guys with YouTube channels getting 3+ elk tags per year, plus deer antelope etc. That makes more people from the east travel west to hunt and more people try to be influencers, eating up all of the tags. I have no problem with people hunting out of state or coming from the east or guiding/outfitting. A bunch of people trying to make a living by killing more than they  need of a very limited resource is what I do have an issue with. Some “influencers” do a better job than others. The content focused more on instruction is good and a few do a good job with the “why” of hunting. A lot of others are just about kill shots every week. I go back and forth on this, but it for sure eats up tags.
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[highcountry_hunter]

I've pretty much decided to give up on hunting in 2022 due to declining opportunities and less enjoyment. I only plan on going after whitetail deer in Illinois and that's it. I'd rather spend my time fishing. I hate the point schemes (they are not systems), declining numbers of places to hunt, units, limited seasons, too many rules, and excessive fees. I'll go buy beef in the store.

Nothing against you personally, but these are the kinds of comments I love to see. One less person in the already overcrowded woods.

[huntnnw]

I've pretty much decided to give up on hunting in 2022 due to declining opportunities and less enjoyment. I only plan on going after whitetail deer in Illinois and that's it. I'd rather spend my time fishing. I hate the point schemes (they are not systems), declining numbers of places to hunt, units, limited seasons, too many rules, and excessive fees. I'll go buy beef in the store.

Nothing against you personally, but these are the kinds of comments I love to see. One less person in the already overcrowded woods.

yup! thats someone who doesnt live for it. Thats something Id never say or do.

[pickardjw]

It's a bit ironic to me that OnX are writing these types of articles. IMO mapping software like OnX is a significant factor in the increasing number of hunters out West. Really makes its own gravy as Steve Rinella would say.

Create software that makes it easier for people to hunt public land out West -> write articles about how many new hunters are doing DIY public land hunting out West.

[Wphunt]

Something I am going to try one of these years is hunting east. I have some family in Tennessee and they seem to have a deer problem. A non resident license is 305$. That gets you 2 bucks and 4+ does as well as turkey, small game etc. Their deer season is almost 100 days long too. I could probably fly there and harvest several deer for less than an Idaho deer tag.

[Special T]

Something I am going to try one of these years is hunting east. I have some family in Tennessee and they seem to have a deer problem. A non resident license is 305$. That gets you 2 bucks and 4+ does as well as turkey, small game etc. Their deer season is almost 100 days long too. I could probably fly there and harvest several deer for less than an Idaho deer tag.

I hunted Arkansas and had a great time. A friend secured several pieces for us to hunt and if your shooting does I would think permission would be easier

[Sundance]

I'm just happy that I rarely hear people say "going out of state this year to Washington". I'm not saying we have a great state for hunting, but poor statistics definitely keeps new hunters from exploring our opportunities.

[Stein]

Something I am going to try one of these years is hunting east. I have some family in Tennessee and they seem to have a deer problem. A non resident license is 305$. That gets you 2 bucks and 4+ does as well as turkey, small game etc. Their deer season is almost 100 days long too. I could probably fly there and harvest several deer for less than an Idaho deer tag.

Me too, Virginia in the fall.  Tags OTC, you can buy more than you want for a reasonable cost and tons of deer.  My brother has permission all around, many people seem happy to allow hunting on their property.  Little to no public, but I look forward to a totally different style of hunting.

[WSU]

I did my first out of state hunt last year in Montana.  I've been meaning to for years but didn't for a number of reasons.  It didn't seem all that crowded to me unless you were on the road.  Anything that couldn't be driven to was basically devoid of people.

[Ironhead]

I'm just happy that I rarely hear people say "going out of state this year to Washington". I'm not saying we have a great state for hunting, but poor statistics definitely keeps new hunters from exploring our opportunities.

This statement cracked me up.
 

[Sundance]

I'm just happy that I rarely hear people say "going out of state this year to Washington". I'm not saying we have a great state for hunting, but poor statistics definitely keeps new hunters from exploring our opportunities.

This statement cracked me up.

It sounds silly, but then name a state where you can buy an OTC tag and hunt whitetail, mule deer, or blacktail over a 3-1/2 week period with a rifle with that single tag.

[Stein]

I'm just happy that I rarely hear people say "going out of state this year to Washington". I'm not saying we have a great state for hunting, but poor statistics definitely keeps new hunters from exploring our opportunities.

This statement cracked me up.

It sounds silly, but then name a state where you can buy an OTC tag and hunt whitetail, mule deer, or blacktail over a 3-1/2 week period with a rifle with that single tag.

Move to any other western state and you can.  In MT, you get 10-12 weeks with any legal weapon for example, all for less than WA.  $100 less if you buy the multi season.

I'm glad to do my part to help you guys out.  I understand why you hunt here, we can probably agree to hunt different states and both be happy about it.

[Platensek-po]

I'm just happy that I rarely hear people say "going out of state this year to Washington". I'm not saying we have a great state for hunting, but poor statistics definitely keeps new hunters from exploring our opportunities.

This statement cracked me up.

It sounds silly, but then name a state where you can buy an OTC tag and hunt whitetail, mule deer, or blacktail over a 3-1/2 week period with a rifle with that single tag.

Move to any other western state and you can.  In MT, you get 10-12 weeks with any legal weapon for example, all for less than WA.  $100 less if you buy the multi season.

I'm glad to do my part to help you guys out.  I understand why you hunt here, we can probably agree to hunt different states and both be happy about it.

You can hunt black tail in montana?

[Stein]

Sure, they call them mule deer.     Black tail and everything, just less rain and ferns to shoot through.

[NRA4LIFE]

The only other state to hunt all 3 would be Oregon.  CA has no whitetails and very few if any mule deer or whitetail in Alaska.

[ljsommer]

Out of curiosity, how much do people actually care about "being able to hunt all 3 species"? Compared to just having a high quality hunt experience for one or two species, how would you stack-rank the ability to drive to the soggy thick forests of Western WA and then hunt mulies in the mountains/east side, and then drive to the border to hunt white tails? Is that a thing people actually do? If so, would you call that a critical piece of your hunting experience?

[Platensek-po]

Out of curiosity, how much do people actually care about "being able to hunt all 3 species"? Compared to just having a high quality hunt experience for one or two species, how would you stack-rank the ability to drive to the soggy thick forests of Western WA and then hunt mulies in the mountains/east side, and then drive to the border to hunt white tails? Is that a thing people actually do? If so, would you call that a critical piece of your hunting experience?

I like the idea of it more than I actually like or do it. Honestly it’s cool and all but not a huge draw for me. Honestly looking at some of those eastern states being able to harvest multiple deer a season would be better than being able to harvest a different deer each year.

[Ironhead]

I'm just happy that I rarely hear people say "going out of state this year to Washington". I'm not saying we have a great state for hunting, but poor statistics definitely keeps new hunters from exploring our opportunities.

 

This statement cracked me up.

It sounds silly, but then name a state where you can buy an OTC tag and hunt whitetail, mule deer, or blacktail over a 3-1/2 week period with a rifle with that single tag.

Well how about this instead...How about Mule Deer, Whitetail and Branch Antlered Elk in ID, MT and WY. With a hell of a lot better harvest rates.

[ghosthunter]

I have hunted this state all my life, except four years in Alaska. And I liked hunting here better.
I talk about Idaho once in awhile couple buddies moved there. But a grandson keeps me hunting here.

I retired the end of last year, and this year I and retired  buddies will be out scouting new grounds. I worked till 70 so I could afford to spend more time out hunting. Oh you won’t see us five miles in but we will be out there. We intend to scout new spots four days every month till seasons open. We have all the time in the world, if we choose a new place we will have our choice of camp spots because we have the resources to get there sooner and stay there longer. We don’t mind other hunters because most don’t have the time we have to put in. We didn’t get hung up in the big rv life style, we use Canvas tents and small trailers which helps us stay flexible and gets into camps where the big RV crowd can’t go. For now I will play the Washington game.



When we scout a spot we go there and we sleep there for four days or more. We let the animals do there thing and we watch. Oh yeah the big deer won’t be there , but if it holds deer before season it will hold deer during season. We have used this tactic many times to pick spots.

[GWP]

I guess all the break in’s on vehicles would make me nervous to leave ANYTHING un attended. Both of our trailers were broken into, and they went over a 5’ fence to do it! Hauled a 75 lb forklift batt over it as well!
Scouting and camping is great fun. Happy for ya!

[Bigshooter]

More hunters do not cause less opportunities!  Game departments don't look at the number of hunters to determine tags given out.  The only thing that determines the amount of tags is the amount of animals available to harvest. 

We have just came off of 4 or 5 years of a screaming along economy.  It is already slowing down.   People will stop applying as the economy slows down.  Less people applying will make getting a tag easier.  But the same amount of animals will be available to hunt.

If you are worried about less tags pray for light winters and wet springs!

[ghosthunter]

I guess all the break in’s on vehicles would make me nervous to leave ANYTHING un attended. Both of our trailers were broken into, and they went over a 5’ fence to do it! Hauled a 75 lb forklift batt over it as well!
Scouting and camping is great fun. Happy for ya!

Security is on everyones mind. Skagit county has a car or truck stolen almost every day. County sheriffs have responded to 27 car break ins at trail heads, waterfowl sites too. It’s every where because the prosecutors are not charging property crimes. It a free ride.
But I refuse to let that deter me from out door activities. I just bought additional alarms for my truck tonight. Doing what I can to make a lot of noise if they mess with it.

Sorry for the degress. Back to the OP topic.

[dagon]

Going to Wyoming draw method of the majority of the tags going to those with the most points. I don't understand how I get further behind every year with all those with the high points going back to one point. Where are all these new folks coming from with lots of points?

[Stein]

They sit on the sidelines buying points until they decide to hunt.  The stats and odds are all based on last years draw and don't include those that buy points but don't apply.  GoHunt has some of that data, you can see how many people are on the sidelines but you never know where or when they will jump in.

Unfortunately there are tons of guys with tons of points.  I don't actually apply to hunt in WY until I have enough points for over 80% odds and can fit it into my schedule, so I never show up in the stats or odds.

[Sundance]

For the three subspecies opportunity I try to take advantage of it every season. In 2021 I hunted both blacktail and whitetail, but some years ago (before kids) I would hunt all three. Usually 1st week for mule deer, second week for blacktail, then the late rifle for whitetail. I've started to take advantage of the 2-bears per season in Western WA, they are everywhere on the peninsula. I hunt branch bulls every year OTC in Western WA, both for cascades and roosevelts. I will supplement with AK or AZ deer hunts (Sitka and Coues), and possibly this year go on a MT doe hunt with the kids. Again, it's not the best state but I can consistently get P&Y bucks, branch bulls, and 2 bears a year if I put in 10-15 days. I could move to AK or another western state and have a better quality for a particular species, but overall I prefer the diversity of species, the different landscapes, and the easy of access (no boats/planes) I can get in WA. Once WA drops OTC deer/elk/bear then my evaluation will significantly change. 

[Sundance]

Out of curiosity, how much do people actually care about "being able to hunt all 3 species"? Compared to just having a high quality hunt experience for one or two species, how would you stack-rank the ability to drive to the soggy thick forests of Western WA and then hunt mulies in the mountains/east side, and then drive to the border to hunt white tails? Is that a thing people actually do? If so, would you call that a critical piece of your hunting experience?

I kicked around the idea of having a two tag system- one just as it is and the other a multiseason for a single GMU. Idea being that someone could pay the regular rate and get a multiseason tag for a specific unit, or stay with the current system. I'd thought it would be nice to just focus on one unit and have 4-months to hunt, but I now prefer the flexibility to move around. I hunted 10 GMU's in 2020 for blacktail, most of those only being 1-day but still I enjoy being able to bounce around.