Should I manage the pregnancy or outsource it?

[KFhunter]

I'm also convinced these puppy mills bonk undesirable pups, that's not in me to do..

[jackelope]

I'm also convinced these puppy mills bonk undesirable pups, that's not in me to do..

What do legitimate upstanding breeders do with undesirable pups? Pups that don’t meet the breed standards?

[KFhunter]

Sell them with papers that they cannot be breeders, and if they do, the litter cannot be papered.

You have an option with AKC to do this when you register the litter.

[callturner]

My female chessie has papers like that, non-registered to be bred. While I understand it , I was sold a $1000. dog and told this later. I feel I got taken and I told the breeder that. I was told that if I gave my pup all these tests she would sign off on the papers. Id never heard of doing business like that and would prolly never paid that kind of money had I known. The dog now is 6 years old with no problems and I may breed her to my male . I just want hunting dogs and papers don't make them that. There both good hunting dogs so my chances are there. 
.

[huntnfmly]

Sell them with papers that they cannot be breeders, and if they do, the litter cannot be papered.

You have an option with AKC to do this when you register the litter.

 

My female chessie has papers like that, non-registered to be bred. While I understand it , I was sold a $1000. dog and told this later. I feel I got taken and I told the breeder that. I was told that if I gave my pup all these tests she would sign off on the papers. Id never heard of doing business like that and would prolly never paid that kind of money had I known. The dog now is 6 years old with no problems and I may breed her to my male . I just want hunting dogs and papers don't make them that. There both good hunting dogs so my chances are there. 
.

[jackelope]

My female chessie has papers like that, non-registered to be bred. While I understand it , I was sold a $1000. dog and told this later. I feel I got taken and I told the breeder that. I was told that if I gave my pup all these tests she would sign off on the papers. Id never heard of doing business like that and would prolly never paid that kind of money had I known. The dog now is 6 years old with no problems and I may breed her to my male . I just want hunting dogs and papers don't make them that. There both good hunting dogs so my chances are there. 
.

I think sometimes the idea behind that is that they weren’t health screened or they have known health issues and they don’t want to propagate that, which makes sense to me. No sense in reproducing potential or known health issues.  Eyes and hip and elbow certifications are not the same as papers like AKC pedigree papers.

[KFhunter]

My female chessie has papers like that, non-registered to be bred. While I understand it , I was sold a $1000. dog and told this later. I feel I got taken and I told the breeder that. I was told that if I gave my pup all these tests she would sign off on the papers. Id never heard of doing business like that and would prolly never paid that kind of money had I known. The dog now is 6 years old with no problems and I may breed her to my male . I just want hunting dogs and papers don't make them that. There both good hunting dogs so my chances are there. 
.

I think sometimes the idea behind that is that they weren’t health screened or they have known health issues and they don’t want to propagate that, which makes sense to me. No sense in reproducing potential or known health issues.  Eyes and hip and elbow certifications are not the same as papers like AKC pedigree papers.

That's impossible to know for 2 years, which is the min age for some of these screens.  If the litter is a bad genetic pairing it'll be too late by then, and they shouldn't be doing repeat pairings anyway having learned of it.


imo - litter restrictions are meant to put increased value on prized dogs and create a finite quantity.   It's more about $$ than increasing the quality.

[callturner]

Used to be just hips. Then eyes and hips. Then eyes hips and elbows. Now there's also a couple of specialized blood tests that are only done by certain labs. The cost of this is what raises the price of the pup. It should be up to the owner of the dogs to be bred to decide if they want these tests. If I'm paying $1000. plus, for a pup I would expect these tests to have been done on the parents. Dogs other than puppy mills are usually not bred till after 2 years when they have matured. My breeding papers were held hostage as far as I'm concerned. Won't happen again. Lesson learned.

[huntnfmly]

My female chessie has papers like that, non-registered to be bred. While I understand it , I was sold a $1000. dog and told this later. I feel I got taken and I told the breeder that. I was told that if I gave my pup all these tests she would sign off on the papers. Id never heard of doing business like that and would prolly never paid that kind of money had I known. The dog now is 6 years old with no problems and I may breed her to my male . I just want hunting dogs and papers don't make them that. There both good hunting dogs so my chances are there. 
.

I think sometimes the idea behind that is that they weren’t health screened or they have known health issues and they don’t want to propagate that, which makes sense to me. No sense in reproducing potential or known health issues.  Eyes and hip and elbow certifications are not the same as papers like AKC pedigree papers.

That's impossible to know for 2 years, which is the min age for some of these screens.  If the litter is a bad genetic pairing it'll be too late by then, and they shouldn't be doing repeat pairings anyway having learned of it.


imo - litter restrictions are meant to put increased value on prized dogs and create a finite quantity.   It's more about $$ than increasing the quality.

This ^^^
My daughter and son in-law bought a male Bully both parents are champion show dogs
They payed half the price without papers and if they wanted papers for breeding purposes they would have to pay full price

[jackelope]

This is why I wouldn’t make a good dog breeder.

[Alchase]

This is why I wouldn’t make a good dog breeder.

This is why I got out of dog breeding!

The worse thing to happen to the “Border Collie” breed, was to have AKC decide what makes a good Border Collie!

The “standard” use to be the dog’s ability to herd.  Border Collies have 17 variations of color and coat. AKC only acknowledges a couple. And none have anything to do with how well a dog herds.

Just look at what they have done to the German Shepherd!
Does any other breed practically walk on their eldows?
AMC has bread in deformity!

[jackelope]

I guess I feel like I wouldn’t want to sell a sub-standard animal, therefore I wouldn’t breed sub-standard animals. If the animal isn’t worthy of breeding, I wouldn’t sell it. But I don’t know what I’d do with a sub par dog that isn’t up to the standard.

If there are 2 recognized varieties of something, then there are 2 recognized varieties. Not 17. Kinda like the silver labs. Silver labs aren’t chocolates. They’re silver. Not a recognized color.

I’ll stick to breeding stuff I can eat.

[HUNTIN4SIX]

Had to laugh.....”out source a pregnancy”?  Maybe I missed something?  Do people do that with dogs? 
My wife is pregnant with number 10, sometimes I wanna out source her.....just a joke!  Well maybe when she’s grumpy.

We have bred our golden several times.  She has every possible test there is...very expensive too.  So we had to ask more to recoup our cost.  Most good breeders I know don’t have a litter until they are sold, or there is enough interest.  We usually have our litters spoken for before hand.  Never have been stuck with one.  Seems like some of the puppy markets are slowing down a bit. 

[huntnfmly]

No reason to laugh a fellow member had a legit question

[HUNTIN4SIX]

No reason to laugh a fellow member had a legit question

Not laughing at him....maybe re-read my post