which glass is best

[Sneaky]

looking for optics that are in my price range and have narrowed it down to nightforce SHV, Leupold Vx-5, and Zeiss V4. Can anyone weigh in on optical clarity between the three? The nightforce is the entry level in their line but really the only scope they offer that I know of in a "traditional" duplex style retical. I have read mixed reviews on the repeatability of the leupold turret tracking system (I have never had a problem with a leupold product), and simply unfamiliar with the Zeiss V4. Thanks in advance for the input.

[Karl Blanchard]

I'm curious as to why you want a traditional duplex reticle in a long range scope? Seems counterproductive.

To answer your question on glass, v4 is gonna be top of the pile with the vx5 close behind. SHV is right in there as well. You're likely splitting hairs as all three are great optically. Personally you couldn't pay me money to us any of the VX lines these days, so I'd go v4, then SHV.   

[grundy53]

I'm really happy with my SHV. I plan on buying more for other rifles.

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[Alan K]

I wouldn't limit your choices due to reticle. I was the same way when I made the transition to these long range scopes, worried about how busy everything was.  You get used to it.  I still don't care to try and use the reticle's hash marks, just doesn't feel right. I always dial. It'll be unnatural at first but you'll get more comfortable with it the more you shoot with it.

[frazierw]

I'm really happy with my SHV. I plan on buying more for other rifles.

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Echo this, love mine and wouldn't trade it.

[Sneaky]

Single place to aim = not screwing it up under stress. Just looking to dial if necessary and go. Optical clarity and simplicity is important to me. Recently upgraded my old binoculars to mid grade leupolds and was amazed how different it is to have better glass.

[blackpowderhunter]

I'm curious as to why you want a traditional duplex reticle in a long range scope? Seems counterproductive.

To answer your question on glass, v4 is gonna be top of the pile with the vx5 close behind. SHV is right in there as well. You're likely splitting hairs as all three are great optically. Personally you couldn't pay me money to us any of the VX lines these days, so I'd go v4, then SHV.   

i bought a v4 6-24 based and love it, blown away with the glass for the money

[b23]

Single place to aim = not screwing it up under stress. Just looking to dial if necessary and go. Optical clarity and simplicity is important to me.

If you intend to dial with this setup I would be more concerned with the scopes ability to dial up/down and return to zero, consistently, than I would its optical quality.

[Stein]

Single place to aim = not screwing it up under stress. Just looking to dial if necessary and go. Optical clarity and simplicity is important to me.

If you intend to dial with this setup I would be more concerned with the scopes ability to dial up/down and return to zero, consistently, than I would its optical quality.

 

[Karl Blanchard]

My issue with duplex reticles in a LR scope is how do you accurately hold wind? A basic MOA reticle is a very simple tool to learn and will up your shooting game immensely.

[kselkhunter]

Out of that lineup, I would go with the Zeiss.   

[Sneaky]

Single place to aim = not screwing it up under stress. Just looking to dial if necessary and go. Optical clarity and simplicity is important to me.

If you intend to dial with this setup I would be more concerned with the scopes ability to dial up/down and return to zero, consistently, than I would its optical quality.

 

Yeah, obviously.

[Sneaky]

My issue with duplex reticles in a LR scope is how do you accurately hold wind? A basic MOA reticle is a very simple tool to learn and will up your shooting game immensely.

Yeah I understand how they work, thanks

[fishngamereaper]

I've got a ton of time behind all three flavors...
NF and Zeiss are a step above the lue...I love NF scopes but my eyes prefer the Zeiss. I'm currently running a Zeiss on my PRC and it's been exceptional. Superb glass, positive detents, solid zero stop etc...so far it's been flawless from Idaho to Alaska...

[deerhunter_98520]

I ran a v4 6-24x50 for a couple years and it worked great until this past Nov in Idaho. Somehow it lost zero and I was shooting 6" high and I missed the biggest buck of my life unaware this happened. Took it to the range when i got back to find out and I had to loosen my zero stop to get it adjusted back to zero. Glass was clear and no issues with that. Maybe mine was a fluke but it put a bad taste in my mouth and I went nightforce recently because of that.

[jrebel]

I run 5 or 6.....or more but don't tell my wife.....NF scopes and love them.  There is a lot of very good advice above my post so I will just post one more thing that has not been mentioned. 


The SHV line of scopes does not have a zero stop.  It has a what they call the "zero set" which I would describe as a "soft" zero stop.  A zero set has a hard stop at your zero.  If you have the zero set...it will allow you to go 1/4 moa past your zero if set correctly.  I own both and have no problem with either....but there is a definite difference.  I also have owned a 4-14 x 56 SHV and it had neither the zero set or zero stop......sold that one. 

I started with the SHV line and absolutely love them for the cost.  They are solid as a rock and I have had no tracking issues.....EVER!!  They are big and they are heavy.  I held a Zeiss a couple weeks ago and like how small it is.  I ordered an NX8 and it is a lot smaller the the SHV.  All have above average glass and are very clear.

As stated above and I will agree 250%.....no way I would buy a scope for long range with a simple duplex reticle.  I hate busy reticles so I think the MOART reticle is a great compromise. 

Good luck and happy hunting....the great news is, you will love whatever you buy.  If you don't, I will buy it off you in a year for half price.   

[jjhunter]

I have 4 NF scopes with MOAR(t) reticles.  I like them, they work well for big game hunting.   However, my varmint guns have duplex type reticles.   For high volume running shots, I want my focus point to be the center of the reticle.   So, I can see how a guy would want to stick with a simple reticle.   My duplex scopes have turrets as well and I’ve killed a pile of critters from 600 to 1100 yards dialing elevation and holding windage with a duplex reticle.   

A guy should just shoot what he’s comfortable with because in the field, confidence and feel are king.

I broke in two new varmint guns with V4’s and duplex reticles, yesterday.  The Zeiss version is has a wide fine crosshair which I liked.  Seemed to be pretty nice scopes.  Both guns were dialed in max of 3 rounds.  Tracked perfectly.  They both had capped windage and I thought the windage adjustment was a little cheap feeling, but, it tracked.

[Sneaky]

thanks everyone for the input. No love for leupold anywhere I look 

[Magnum_Willys]

I’ve had good luck with the Leupy Mark 5.   Very sharp, good field of view,  durable turret, 33 oz for 7-35.   Had some issues with the vx6 -  after 500+ rounds with 300  gr lapua.   

[bustedoldman]

thanks everyone for the input. No love for leupold anywhere I look 

 I have 2 VX-5's with duplex and 1 with HTMR. Also a VX6 with a duplex. They all work and track fine, zero stop no issues, great in low light.

[Igor]

thanks everyone for the input. No love for leupold anywhere I look 

Between my sons and myself, we have a total of 8 Leupold scopes.  I've been a fan of Leupold for over 40 years.......and never been sorry.  They have one of the better warranties, should you ever need one.  I have returned two over the years for warranty work, and been very happy.  Lots of manufacturers claim to have great warranties, until you need them.

[Stein]

I have a VX5 on my rifle and have been pretty happy for the price.  I think I paid $650 or so a couple years back.  The image through the glass is great, zero stop is perfect and clicks are ok (could be a bit firmer).  The zoom ring is too hard to operate in my opinion but not a big deal.

It does track a bit to the left as I go out, but only about 1" or so from 100 to 300.  I don't shoot past 400, most of the time in the 2-300 range so it isn't an issue.  It's repeatable and holds a rock solid zero which is the bigger thing for me.  I tried multiple methods to level the crosshairs and am convinced it's the turret not the level.

If I wanted to go beyond 400, it would be an issue and I would need to double the budget (or more) to bump up to the next level of quality or send this one back and hope they can fix it or roll the dice with a new one.  For the price, I didn't expect a scope with quality glass and a rock solid turret.

[Karl Blanchard]

Its definitely the erector system Stein. Ive done tracking tests on quite a few vx5 and 6's the last few years and every single one starts walking horizontally.

Over on rokslide there is a member who is doing very in depth testing of scopes. Its definitely worth jumping over there and doing a deep dive. Lota of scopes still to come.  He isn't biased and he doesn't pull punches.

https://www.rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/

That link takes you to a main page. I recommend reading the green link about how the tests are conducted and then below that link are the seperate scope evals.

[Mtnwalker]

Its definitely the erector system Stein. Ive done tracking tests on quite a few vx5 and 6's the last few years and every single one starts walking horizontally.

Over on rokslide there is a member who is doing very in depth testing of scopes. Its definitely worth jumping over there and doing a deep dive. Lota of scopes still to come.  He isn't biased and he doesn't pull punches.

https://www.rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/

That link takes you to a main page. I recommend reading the green link about how the tests are conducted and then below that link are the seperate scope evals.

How much walk are we talking here typically? I have a 6 that I just got back from Leupold and I still think its doing funny things...

[Karl Blanchard]

The last vx6 I did was just like Stein observed.  Didnt show till about 4 MOA but by 20 MOA it had walked 2.5 MOA.

[Mtnwalker]

The last vx6 I did was just like Stein observed.  Didnt show till about 4 MOA but by 20 MOA it had walked 2.5 MOA.

Sounds about right... 2 @ 14.5

[Karl Blanchard]

The last vx6 I did was just like Stein observed.  Didnt show till about 4 MOA but by 20 MOA it had walked 2.5 MOA.

Sounds about right... 2 @ 14.5

ouch.

[Stein]

Its definitely the erector system Stein. Ive done tracking tests on quite a few vx5 and 6's the last few years and every single one starts walking horizontally.

Over on rokslide there is a member who is doing very in depth testing of scopes. Its definitely worth jumping over there and doing a deep dive. Lota of scopes still to come.  He isn't biased and he doesn't pull punches.

https://www.rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/

That link takes you to a main page. I recommend reading the green link about how the tests are conducted and then below that link are the seperate scope evals.

Thanks, good info.

[Magnum_Willys]

My vx6 turret got erratic for awhile then froze.  sent in, got back was better then now ready to go back again.  switched to Mark 5 and no issues.   

[halibut herb]

The last vx6 I did was just like Stein observed.  Didnt show till about 4 MOA but by 20 MOA it had walked 2.5 MOA.

On my rifle 20 MOA is about 800 yards. Are you saying the vx6 will be off by 20 inches to the left or right? That seems like a non-starter for anybody actually trying to shoot that far.
 
For you guys that own the NF NX-8, how much time do you spend messing with the parallax adjustment to get the parallax out? It doesn’t have yardage printed on the turret like the Leupolds do. Is it fairly obvious that the target is in focus or do you still have to move your head around to make sure the reticle isn't moving around?     

[Karl Blanchard]

The last vx6 I did was just like Stein observed.  Didnt show till about 4 MOA but by 20 MOA it had walked 2.5 MOA.

On my rifle 20 MOA is about 800 yards. Are you saying the vx6 will be off by 20 inches to the left or right? That seems like a non-starter for anybody actually trying to shoot that far.
 
For you guys that own the NF NX-8, how much time do you spend messing with the parallax adjustment to get the parallax out? It doesn’t have yardage printed on the turret like the Leupolds do. Is it fairly obvious that the target is in focus or do you still have to move your head around to make sure the reticle isn't moving around?   

correct.

[grundy53]

Its definitely the erector system Stein. Ive done tracking tests on quite a few vx5 and 6's the last few years and every single one starts walking horizontally.

Over on rokslide there is a member who is doing very in depth testing of scopes. Its definitely worth jumping over there and doing a deep dive. Lota of scopes still to come.  He isn't biased and he doesn't pull punches.

https://www.rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/

That link takes you to a main page. I recommend reading the green link about how the tests are conducted and then below that link are the seperate scope evals.

I've been following this thread. Very eye opening. I have a feeling it's going to get pretty expensive for me...

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[Karl Blanchard]

Its definitely the erector system Stein. Ive done tracking tests on quite a few vx5 and 6's the last few years and every single one starts walking horizontally.

Over on rokslide there is a member who is doing very in depth testing of scopes. Its definitely worth jumping over there and doing a deep dive. Lota of scopes still to come.  He isn't biased and he doesn't pull punches.

https://www.rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/

That link takes you to a main page. I recommend reading the green link about how the tests are conducted and then below that link are the seperate scope evals.

I've been following this thread. Very eye opening. I have a feeling it's going to get pretty expensive for me...

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one of my all time favorite scopes ever is my old mark 4. Ive owned a lot of good leupolds over the years. With that said, I can't wait for Form to start drop testing the vx line and breaking the internet. Leupold needs a good metaphorical slapping across the back of the head.

[b23]

Leupold needs a good metaphorical slapping across the back of the head.

 

Unfortunately, I think there's a few companies that could benefit from the same.

[Karl Blanchard]

Leupold needs a good metaphorical slapping across the back of the head.

 

Unfortunately, I think there's a few companies that could benefit from the same.

you're not wrong! Especially for the prices they charge. I don't mind paying a mortgage payment for a scope but the son of a gun better function.

[grundy53]

Its definitely the erector system Stein. Ive done tracking tests on quite a few vx5 and 6's the last few years and every single one starts walking horizontally.

Over on rokslide there is a member who is doing very in depth testing of scopes. Its definitely worth jumping over there and doing a deep dive. Lota of scopes still to come.  He isn't biased and he doesn't pull punches.

https://www.rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/

That link takes you to a main page. I recommend reading the green link about how the tests are conducted and then below that link are the seperate scope evals.

I've been following this thread. Very eye opening. I have a feeling it's going to get pretty expensive for me...

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

one of my all time favorite scopes ever is my old mark 4. Ive owned a lot of good leupolds over the years. With that said, I can't wait for Form to start drop testing the vx line and breaking the internet. Leupold needs a good metaphorical slapping across the back of the head.

Yeah, I've always been a Leupold guy. Probably because my dad and all of his buddies were. But it's probably telling that everyone had to sight in their rifles every year. Not just check zero. I was surprised when I got a Nightforce and it actually held zero for a whole year and I took it out and shot it through out the year. The Nightforce is their low end offering too (SHV).

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[thinkingman]

Its definitely the erector system Stein. Ive done tracking tests on quite a few vx5 and 6's the last few years and every single one starts walking horizontally.

Over on rokslide there is a member who is doing very in depth testing of scopes. Its definitely worth jumping over there and doing a deep dive. Lota of scopes still to come.  He isn't biased and he doesn't pull punches.

https://www.rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/

That link takes you to a main page. I recommend reading the green link about how the tests are conducted and then below that link are the seperate scope evals.

I've been following this thread. Very eye opening. I have a feeling it's going to get pretty expensive for me...

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

one of my all time favorite scopes ever is my old mark 4. Ive owned a lot of good leupolds over the years. With that said, I can't wait for Form to start drop testing the vx line and breaking the internet. Leupold needs a good metaphorical slapping across the back of the head.

The whole state of Oregon will protest that result!

Funny, I've never trusted Leupold scopes and whenever I bring that up, I feel like I'm Tucker Carlson on The View.

[Stein]

The VX line is priced similarly to Vortex mid to upper and likely will perform similar.  The model for those is you drop it, it either shifts and you re-zero or you break it, send it in and they fix it.  It's pretty common for people to be concerned if they give their scope a drop or smack it on something.  I don't know many people that think their scope they paid less than $1,000 is going to be super rugged and withstand multiple drops without losing zero.

That said, it looks like the zero drop test is claiming victims in the $1,000 - $2,000+ range and that is something that concerns me as I look for my next scope.  Paying that kind of money I would want something that tracks and holds zero reliably.

I would expect sub $1,000 Vortex and Leupolds (and any other brand for that matter) to both track relatively poorly and fail the drop test.  Put them on your rifle, zero, don't touch them and don't drop them, check your zero when you travel or have reason to believe they have been subject to impact.  That's basically how they have been used historically and how they should be used today.  Works great for the 100-300 yard shots the vast majority of game are taken with.

[Karl Blanchard]

I'd agree with most of that except for the part about people not having absolute confidence in their sub 1k scopes. Id argue the opposite. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a guy who wouldn't argue to his grave that his vortex razor isn't the end all be all to rifle scopes.

[grundy53]

The VX line is priced similarly to Vortex mid to upper and likely will perform similar.  The model for those is you drop it, it either shifts and you re-zero or you break it, send it in and they fix it.  It's pretty common for people to be concerned if they give their scope a drop or smack it on something.  I don't know many people that think their scope they paid less than $1,000 is going to be super rugged and withstand multiple drops without losing zero.

That said, it looks like the zero drop test is claiming victims in the $1,000 - $2,000+ range and that is something that concerns me as I look for my next scope.  Paying that kind of money I would want something that tracks and holds zero reliably.

I would expect sub $1,000 Vortex and Leupolds (and any other brand for that matter) to both track relatively poorly and fail the drop test.  Put them on your rifle, zero, don't touch them and don't drop them, check your zero when you travel or have reason to believe they have been subject to impact.  That's basically how they have been used historically and how they should be used today.  Works great for the 100-300 yard shots the vast majority of game are taken with.

The drops aren't what concern me with the sub $1,000 scopes. It's the loss of zero from just riding around in a truck. Which is how most of us get to our hunting spots. It was eye opening how many lost zero while riding in the back seat of Form's truck. But you are right about the scopes in the $1,000-$2,000 range. I would expect more durability.

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[grundy53]

I'd agree with most of that except for the part about people not having absolute confidence in their sub 1k scopes. Id argue the opposite. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a guy who wouldn't argue to his grave that his vortex razor isn't the end all be all to rifle scopes.

Or their Leupold.

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[HUNT JR]

I went with the buy once cry once mentality and just went straight to Nightforce NXS. Had it on my rifle for 3 years now and have not had a zero issue and it tracks every single time. Durability is 2nd to none. Glass is good enough for me in a scope, if you wanted higher end glass then get an ATACR or NX8.

[Ingwe]

I have been a leupold man since about 1974. I admit most of mine are older Leupolds but I have never had a problem. I have vari x 11, vari x 111, vx11, and vx3 models. My favorite has always been the older vari x 111 in 2.5 -8 x36. I have hunted in Africa several times, Alaska 3 times, British Columbia 3 times plus deer and elk every year. I hunt hard and and fallen many times. I have had them on guns from 270 up to 375 and have never had a problem. I can honestly say I have never had to change zero unless I changed bullets.

[Alchase]

 

I have three Leupold VX3 3x9, and a few Firedots as well. None have ever “lost Zero” on their own. I do confirm zero before every opening day, which every responsible hunter should do. I also shoot my hunting rifles often, not just before opening day.
I have never actually seen a Leopold fail. Not saying it can’t happen. But I have actually witnessed three Vortex Razer Gen IIs fail shooting .223s as well as two Vipers.
 But damn they have a great warranty! Said every Vortex owner ever.
Leupold also has a fantastic warranty, the difference is the average Leupold owner will never have to use it.
I love the features and functions the Vortext Razor has. I would not even consider buying one let alone having my life depend on one with the failure rate I have seen.

[BigGoonTuna]

most of my scopes are leupolds, but most are also 10+ years old. all of them hold zero well.

i've definitely experienced the headaches of having to shoot several times to "settle" my vx3/vx3i scopes though.

i bought a meopta meopro (branded as an "instinct") on closeout from cabela's a few years ago, that was a real eye opener.  bullets hitting 2" to the left at 100 yards?  move the windage 8 clicks to the right, and it's spot on.

i still like my old leupolds, but it's because i'm what many would consider to be a fudd.  i dislike 30mm tubes, big clunky eyepieces, and heavy scopes with a bunch of "tactical" clutter for a reticle.  most of my guns are long actions, and most new scopes are too short and stubby to mount without a rail or ugly extension rings, despite weighing 20+ ounces.  leupold has kind of broken my heart in the last several years by discontinuing many of their good, lighter scope offerings, closing the custom shop, and making the "wide duplex" reticle the only choice on several of their scopes (i really, really liked their german #4).

all that said, my last scope purchase was a tract toric 2-10x42.  i've heard rave reviews about them and they are available in a german #4-ish reticle (they call it the "t-plex").  glass clarity is outstanding, the only gripe i have is that it's on the heavy side (18oz if i'm not mistaken).