Oak creek open up for natives

[bigtex]

Dennis, there is no fight, that’s the truth.

If anybody thinks that there is the actual political or legal will to amend/restrict/etc tribal hunting/fishing rights they are mistaken. We have a US Supreme Court which in just 2019 voted to affirm tribal hunting rights in Wyoming, and the deciding vote came down to Gorsuch who of course was nominated by Trump. In fact Gorsuch has almost always sided with tribes while on SCOTUS and as an appellate judge. And while the Court now has a conservative majority you have Gorsuch who almost always sides with tribes, and Coney-Barrett who basically has no background in tribal issues. So it really could be a toss-up if a tribal hunting/fishing rights made it to the Court.

Realistically, I think all we can do is bring the "issues" forward and post the abuses on social media. But lets face it, the tribes could just turn it around and point to examples of non-tribal members poaching.

[trophyhunt]

Agree bigtex, and the other prob is social media really won’t do anything, like this one. We could have video of a certain tribal member in flip flops killing multiple bulls to sell, and One non native spotlighting a spike, the woke news would only report on the non native.  It’s a joke, just not funny.

[idaho guy]

Agree bigtex, and the other prob is social media really won’t do anything, like this one. We could have video of a certain tribal member in flip flops killing multiple bulls to sell, and One non native spotlighting a spike, the woke news would only report on the non native.  It’s a joke, just not funny.

   

I agree with you trophy especially on the mainstream media. Except I think posting abuses by tribal members all over the internet will have an effect. I don't think most people are aware of whats really going on. Be the best chance to hold the natives abusing stuff accountable.     

[KFhunter]

Meh, It's been posted for years has it had an effect yet?

[idaho guy]

Meh, It's been posted for years has it had an effect yet?

 

NO  I was thinking other social media sites? Its been on this site for years but it doesnt seem to be out there much(except for this site Ha Ha).   

[NOCK NOCK]

Congress and the President gave treaty rights to Native tribes.

This is not correct and clarification here may help in understanding some of these tribal issues...treaty rights are often referred to as 'reserved' rights....rights the Tribes have always had (pre-dating US Gov't) and which are so important to them they explicitly reserved them at the time they ceded other rights/interests/claims to broad swaths of land.

But a lot of our current issues is previous lawsuits, which look more like reparations than proper interpretation of law

I disagree.  Federal Indian law and interpretation of treaties is generally well reasoned/supported by the case law.  Obviously reasonable people can come to different conclusions on any individual case...but collectively I would not view any broad set of rulings as reparations...I think that view is more common from folks who forget the hundred-ish years treaty rights were ignored or even criminalized.

You missed my point, which is that either by treaty or judicial decision, the government is responsible for Native resource rights. The tribes don't just decide something is theirs and take it.

Look at it this way.... If I had exclusive rights(or whatever ya wanna call it) to shoot bighorns in the Swak., as many as I wanted to, any day of the year.........I would not do it. I would take 1, and be happy. SHARING with your fellow sportsman/women, and helping others achieve the same goals we all have interest in is a long lost thing.  SAD

[trophyhunt]

Can you guys imagine if non natives, poached deer, used them as bait to kill bald eagles, and it didn’t explode on the news?  We barely herd about it when natives were actually caught doing that in the yakama area. We’d be strung up by our male parts!

[KFhunter]

Congress and the President gave treaty rights to Native tribes.

This is not correct and clarification here may help in understanding some of these tribal issues...treaty rights are often referred to as 'reserved' rights....rights the Tribes have always had (pre-dating US Gov't) and which are so important to them they explicitly reserved them at the time they ceded other rights/interests/claims to broad swaths of land.

But a lot of our current issues is previous lawsuits, which look more like reparations than proper interpretation of law

I disagree.  Federal Indian law and interpretation of treaties is generally well reasoned/supported by the case law.  Obviously reasonable people can come to different conclusions on any individual case...but collectively I would not view any broad set of rulings as reparations...I think that view is more common from folks who forget the hundred-ish years treaty rights were ignored or even criminalized.

You missed my point, which is that either by treaty or judicial decision, the government is responsible for Native resource rights. The tribes don't just decide something is theirs and take it.

Look at it this way.... If I had exclusive rights(or whatever ya wanna call it) to shoot bighorns in the Swak., as many as I wanted to, any day of the year.........I would not do it. I would take 1, and be happy. SHARING with your fellow sportsman/women, and helping others achieve the same goals we all have interest in is a long lost thing.  SAD

Not had you been raised differently, you're using the lens of your upbringing, your ethics, your moral code.

[KFhunter]

Change cannot come from without, the law prevents this, it must come from within.

Ask Plat

[trophyhunt]

Change cannot come from without, the law prevents this, it must come from within.

Ask Plat

kudos to plat for trying, I know he has. But the elders didn’t care, hopefully someday they do.

[Buzzsaw461]

 

I do not believe it is "Native Bashing" just for someone to disagree that they have "rights" to hunt and kill whatever they want basically.  Its ok to think something is wrong even if its legal.

The point is you're blaming the wrong people. Congress and the President gave treaty rights to Native tribes. They didn't just show up and demand them. Blame the gov't., not the Tribes.

If there were a lotto and you won exclusive rights to sheds or year-round elk hunting or unlimited crabbing or snagging chums or something else you love to hunt or fish, would you turn it down? I doubt it. If our government allows Native people to harvest antlers and elk at Oak Creek and you don't like it, talk to your duly-elected government.

Yes boss, I understand how it all works and how it came to be so. I still stand by my post. These "rights" are being greatly abused by many in the tribe and that's a fact. Its not native bashing.

[trophyhunt]

 

[NOCK NOCK]

Congress and the President gave treaty rights to Native tribes.

This is not correct and clarification here may help in understanding some of these tribal issues...treaty rights are often referred to as 'reserved' rights....rights the Tribes have always had (pre-dating US Gov't) and which are so important to them they explicitly reserved them at the time they ceded other rights/interests/claims to broad swaths of land.

But a lot of our current issues is previous lawsuits, which look more like reparations than proper interpretation of law

I disagree.  Federal Indian law and interpretation of treaties is generally well reasoned/supported by the case law.  Obviously reasonable people can come to different conclusions on any individual case...but collectively I would not view any broad set of rulings as reparations...I think that view is more common from folks who forget the hundred-ish years treaty rights were ignored or even criminalized.

You missed my point, which is that either by treaty or judicial decision, the government is responsible for Native resource rights. The tribes don't just decide something is theirs and take it.

Look at it this way.... If I had exclusive rights(or whatever ya wanna call it) to shoot bighorns in the Swak., as many as I wanted to, any day of the year.........I would not do it. I would take 1, and be happy. SHARING with your fellow sportsman/women, and helping others achieve the same goals we all have interest in is a long lost thing.  SAD

Not had you been raised differently, you're using the lens of your upbringing, your ethics, your moral code.

So you can forecast MY actions/behaviors, Especially since you've never met me?    Thats completely laughable 

[Skyvalhunter]

I predict you are going to reply again

[fishngamereaper]

These threads show up a few times a year. I get it, venting and frustration. But allot of it is I heard from a guy that heard from a guy, then it turns into mob mentality and some comments show up that are flat out disrespectful, distasteful and hate filled. We all know tribes have rights to fish and game that exceed most of our own. And no I don't always agree with them. And sometimes I vent. But venting hatred is not going to accomplish anything. Except continue the division that drives good people away from this site. We used to have some level headed tribal perspective but those days are gone. And I don't blame those guy's for leaving or not chiming in anymore...

If you want to find tribal abuse of fish and game it's out there...but, just the same, if you want to find non tribal abuse of fish and game it's out there as well...And probably at higher levels. Does going in oak Creek for an unknown elk harvest....season driven, ceremonial or otherwise constitute abuse. And does collecting shed antlers constitute abuse. I mean shed antlers aren't even "managed" by the State. Plenty of places to shed hunt. And plenty of non tribal guys sneaking in from the back roads and the tops via snow machines and quads to get first dibs... Maybe gathering shed's should be illegal. I'm sure if enough people complain about who gets first dibs the state will just list sheds the same as deadheads.

I guess in my book this a small part of a bigger problem.

Now, if you want to get me fired up let's talk about tribal halibut fishing that started a couple weeks ago....