Hunters need to make a Statement

[KFhunter]

This "reach across the isle" thing is dead, I'm not being angry, or overly dramatic, it's just the reality.  I'm pragmatic here.

[KFhunter]

While we can disagree on many issues, hunting rights and opportunity are not confined to one party or another. We need to convince those democrats who feel strongly on this issue, as I do, that they need to speak out more strongly. It's OK to offend members who you agree with on some issues when you strongly support an opposing issue. I suspect many members on here are democrats but rarely post because they don't want to hear the distan and name calling of some who seem to enjoy doing that. We're all in this together, we're in jeproday of losing a lifestyle we all love. Can't we bury the hatchet on this issue and together start formulating some working agreements?

No we're not in this together, if you're voting dem then you're the enemy of hunting, and other issues like 2A

Them's the facts.

kf- hate to say it, but that thinking is the very problem that's going to cost us our rights. Hunters continue to be their own worst enemies.

You voted for Inslee, who appointed these comission members, canceled spring turkey, canceled fishing for nearly a year due to COVID, and you have the audacity to say I'M hurting hunting?

 

[Karl Blanchard]

I don't agree that everyone should be able to hunt all seasons. It's already too crowded as it is, that would only make it worse, and it's the reason in the first place many years ago that they went to a choose your weapon type system. However I do agree people should try to cut back as much as they possibly can on how many licenses and applications you purchase.

So explain to me then. Why do people choose to spend money in other states where they can hunt with their choice of several weapons. I believe that you are one who does this. I also get that there are different species you can hunt. But other than speed goats we have pretty much the same choices.

not very many western states allow multiple weapon season hunting and if they do it usually involves an additional fee.

Fact is MS (deer specifically) puts a lot of additional strain on a limited resource. Ive been shouting for years that this state needs to tighten up deer hunting for the sake of our mule deer. We are THE ONLY western state with completely wide open and unbridled deer hunting and we have embarrassingly low deer numbers. We have all screamed "follow the science" in recent months due to the spring bear debacle but we fall silent on mule deer when following the science means less opportunity. 

As for hitting wdfw in the wallet, that does nothing more than feeding into exactly what Inslee and his anti's want. Their goal is NO HUNTING so if everyone stops participating they have achieved their goal. Its quite literally exactly what they want. License sales are a mere drop in the bucket that is WA states annual budget. They'll reallocate some funds to pay for blue bird boxes and wolves and they won't give hunting a second thought.

Don't we have fewer overall hunters than the heydays of the early 90's?   

Too many hunters isn't the problem, I rarely bump into them.  The problem is hunters being corralled in smaller spaces due to road closures and dwindling access, and less game due to lack of predator management.

where in my statements did I claim we have more hunters now than in the 90's and how is that stat relevant to current game populations, usable habitat, and fixing the issues at hand?

I believe the focus is wrong, we need to focus on increasing access to timberlands, we need USFS,DNR etc to focus on opening closed roads, and we need to focus on predator management rather than reducing hunters even more.   We're already a 3% minority and your ideas will further reduce that, why have hunting at all for a 1 or 2% minority that squabble about there being too many hunters?   Shoot yourself in the foot for better hunting and less pressure in a couple years?

You're so off base with what I said. You keep pointing out hunter numbers and over crowding.  Where did I say a single thing about over crowding or hunter numbers?  The simple truth is mule deer numbers continue to plummet and we just keep banging away. Sure up in your neck of the woods bears and cats are pretty out of control, but there are large areas of this state with no bears and very few cats yet MD numbers continue to plummet. USABLE habitat continues to shrink by the day but we continue to sell unlimited tags, multi season permits by the hundreds, damage tags for doe's and piles of doe tags in the draws. We can shoot two bears, hunt coyotes year round, and cats almost year round but very few actually do. So whats the realistic answer to help get mule deer back on their feet? Open more roads to increase access to kill more deer? Continue to hunt them unrestricted? Continue killing females? WASHINGTON IS THE ONLY WESTERN STATE WITH UNRESTRICTED MULE DEER HUNTING. How insane is that!?!!

Also your 2% draw odds with 15 points is dishonest and you know it. If it was a statewide draw there would be thousands of tags not dozens like there currently is.

Listen, we wiped all predators from the landscape at the turn of the century when the population of the US was 1/3 of what it was. Of course we had an ungulate boom (which I'd give almost anything to have witnessed) but that was man made, not natural. If we want these species for our children and our grandchildren to be able to hunt we gotta check some selfishness at the door. Yeah we need to kill predators, but we more importantly gotta start preserving habitat. Look to Wyoming and what that state is doing with mule deer migration corridor preservation and its effect on populations.

We can keep screaming predators at the top of our lungs but guess what folks, you aren't gonna bait bears in WA in your lifetime. You're not gonna run cats with hounds in WA in your lifetime. I'll be right there with everyone else screaming we need those back till I can't scream anymore but we gotta quit putting everything on predators. We gotta put our voice behind things that can still actually make a difference 

[Platensek-po]

I don't agree that everyone should be able to hunt all seasons. It's already too crowded as it is, that would only make it worse, and it's the reason in the first place many years ago that they went to a choose your weapon type system. However I do agree people should try to cut back as much as they possibly can on how many licenses and applications you purchase.

So explain to me then. Why do people choose to spend money in other states where they can hunt with their choice of several weapons. I believe that you are one who does this. I also get that there are different species you can hunt. But other than speed goats we have pretty much the same choices.

not very many western states allow multiple weapon season hunting and if they do it usually involves an additional fee.

Fact is MS (deer specifically) puts a lot of additional strain on a limited resource. Ive been shouting for years that this state needs to tighten up deer hunting for the sake of our mule deer. We are THE ONLY western state with completely wide open and unbridled deer hunting and we have embarrassingly low deer numbers. We have all screamed "follow the science" in recent months due to the spring bear debacle but we fall silent on mule deer when following the science means less opportunity. 

As for hitting wdfw in the wallet, that does nothing more than feeding into exactly what Inslee and his anti's want. Their goal is NO HUNTING so if everyone stops participating they have achieved their goal. Its quite literally exactly what they want. License sales are a mere drop in the bucket that is WA states annual budget. They'll reallocate some funds to pay for blue bird boxes and wolves and they won't give hunting a second thought.

Don't we have fewer overall hunters than the heydays of the early 90's?   

Too many hunters isn't the problem, I rarely bump into them.  The problem is hunters being corralled in smaller spaces due to road closures and dwindling access, and less game due to lack of predator management.

where in my statements did I claim we have more hunters now than in the 90's and how is that stat relevant to current game populations, usable habitat, and fixing the issues at hand?

I believe the focus is wrong, we need to focus on increasing access to timberlands, we need USFS,DNR etc to focus on opening closed roads, and we need to focus on predator management rather than reducing hunters even more.   We're already a 3% minority and your ideas will further reduce that, why have hunting at all for a 1 or 2% minority that squabble about there being too many hunters?   Shoot yourself in the foot for better hunting and less pressure in a couple years?

You're so off base with what I said. You keep pointing out hunter numbers and over crowding.  Where did I say a single thing about over crowding or hunter numbers?  The simple truth is mule deer numbers continue to plummet and we just keep banging away. Sure up in your neck of the woods bears and cats are pretty out of control, but there are large areas of this state with no bears and very few cats yet MD numbers continue to plummet. USABLE habitat continues to shrink by the day but we continue to sell unlimited tags, multi season permits by the hundreds, damage tags for doe's and piles of doe tags in the draws. We can shoot two bears, hunt coyotes year round, and cats almost year round but very few actually do. So whats the realistic answer to help get mule deer back on their feet? Open more roads to increase access to kill more deer? Continue to hunt them unrestricted? Continue killing females? WASHINGTON IS THE ONLY WESTERN STATE WITH UNRESTRICTED MULE DEER HUNTING. How insane is that!?!!

Also your 2% draw odds with 15 points is dishonest and you know it. If it was a statewide draw there would be thousands of tags not dozens like there currently is.

Listen, we wiped all predators from the landscape at the turn of the century when the population of the US was 1/3 of what it was. Of course we had an ungulate boom (which I'd give almost anything to have witnessed) but that was man made, not natural. If we want these species for our children and our grandchildren to be able to hunt we gotta check some selfishness at the door. Yeah we need to kill predators, but we more importantly gotta start preserving habitat. Look to Wyoming and what that state is doing with mule deer migration corridor preservation and its effect on populations.

We can keep screaming predators at the top of our lungs but guess what folks, you aren't gonna bait bears in WA in your lifetime. You're not gonna run cats with hounds in WA in your lifetime. I'll be right there with everyone else screaming we need those back till I can't scream anymore but we gotta quit putting everything on predators. We gotta put our voice behind things that can still actually make a difference 

I agree with this 100%. Very well stated

[pianoman9701]

I think its a massive mistake to to simplify this down to an R or D issue...and I think alienating moderate democrats is the worst possible thing we could do in this state.  And if you think everything would be fine simply by replacing all D's with R's...take a look at how bad the Montana Republicans tried to screw Montana hunters earlier this year...and how they did screw NR DIY hunters last year. 

All politicians and parties need to be kept in check IMO.  I'm starting to think the best move would be to make Commission positions an elected office...one from each region, not attributed by population.  Then voters could focus on just that issue when they vote for a commissioner.  Fish and Wildlife resources are becoming so valuable to the public it makes no sense to allow unelected bureaucrats to wield this much unchecked power.

That's exactly what it is here in WA. Our liberal D governor is destroying our hunting by appointing activists (whose organizations have filled his pockets) to the Commission. An R governor would not have. We just lost spring bear...because of activists and ignorant or lying Ds. We have more gun control...because of activists and ignorant or lying Ds.

[Karl Blanchard]

And just be clear, I'm not necessarily advocating for a full on draw but some sort of management needs to be implemented. Whether that be gmu quotas, region specific tags, species specific tags, etc. All we know is what we are currently doing now isn't working and its pure greed and laziness by WDFW.

[KFhunter]

I know herds are in trouble, they are here too.

I'm just looking at going draw only and wondering why you think the odds won't follow elk odds?  Or spring bear went from nearly 50% odds to sub 20% in just a few years when it should be otc, and now its gone!

How many guys have 7 points now for spring bear?  I think I'm 6

Mule deer special permit system doesn't put more deer on the landscape, it only puts better deer on the landscape, better deer brings more people putting in for draws and before you know it you got 7 or 8 points and haven't hunted a mule since.

Unless you can show me does that don't get bred?

[baldopepper]

And just be clear, I'm not necessarily advocating for a full on draw but some sort of management needs to be implemented. Whether that be gmu quotas, region specific tags, species specific tags, etc. All we know is what we are currently doing now isn't working and its pure greed and laziness by WDFW.

Well put and I agree. One thing to be careful of is these things can easily be used by those hunters and groups who want to convert us to the European Wildlife management system. Utah is subtly moving that direction- more land owner permits selling at ever higher prices, more raffles that bring in huge profits, and more limited entry hunts taking prime areas away from the general hunting population.

[bearpaw]

And just be clear, I'm not necessarily advocating for a full on draw but some sort of management needs to be implemented. Whether that be gmu quotas, region specific tags, species specific tags, etc. All we know is what we are currently doing now isn't working and its pure greed and laziness by WDFW.

Well put and I agree. One thing to be careful of is these things can easily be used by those hunters and groups who want to convert us to the European Wildlife management system. Utah is subtly moving that direction- more land owner permits selling at ever higher prices, more raffles that bring in huge profits, and more limited entry hunts taking prime areas away from the general hunting population.

Totally disagree with this idea of limiting hunters!   

Washington is already down to 3% hunters, take away more opportunity and you will reduce that number further.

The biggest problem we have is predators are eating the herds into nonexistence!

Another huge problem is groups like BHA who keep advocating and gaining further road closures and wilderness designations, all that does is put more hunters into ever increasingly fewer accessible areas for THE FEW HUNTERS WHO ARE STILL HUNTING!

At this point habitat is practically a non-issue, not because it isn't important, but because the extreme predation has decreased the herds to the point there isn't any animals left on the landscape to inhabit the habitat that is available to them. Animals have a better chance of surviving in human communities where predators aren't as abundant.

I think Utah has a pretty good system, there are over the counter areas that you can buy elk tags every year, but there are draw areas with huge bulls. Utah manages predators pretty well to try and keep herds from declining. The landowner tags bring in a lot of dollars for management they wouldn't otherwise have, granted there is a lot of jealousy from from people whoi can't afford to buy those tags, but its a small number of tags as compared to the thousands of tags the public gets for hunting. The disappointing factor is there are no over the counter deer areas in Utah, WA has done better in that respect.

[2MANY]

Liberal states are anti hunting.
It's really that simple.

[bearpaw]

I think its a massive mistake to to simplify this down to an R or D issue...and I think alienating moderate democrats is the worst possible thing we could do in this state.  And if you think everything would be fine simply by replacing all D's with R's...take a look at how bad the Montana Republicans tried to screw Montana hunters earlier this year...and how they did screw NR DIY hunters last year. 

Nice how you frame your narrative. Your hatred for outfitters has been noted many times. I'll remind you that outfitter tags were taken away a few years ago from outfitted hunters and outfitters. DIY hunters only gained at the expense of outfitted hunters. So nothing was really taken away from DIY hunters.

[bearpaw]

I don't agree that everyone should be able to hunt all seasons. It's already too crowded as it is, that would only make it worse, and it's the reason in the first place many years ago that they went to a choose your weapon type system. However I do agree people should try to cut back as much as they possibly can on how many licenses and applications you purchase.

So explain to me then. Why do people choose to spend money in other states where they can hunt with their choice of several weapons. I believe that you are one who does this. I also get that there are different species you can hunt. But other than speed goats we have pretty much the same choices.

not very many western states allow multiple weapon season hunting and if they do it usually involves an additional fee.

Fact is MS (deer specifically) puts a lot of additional strain on a limited resource. Ive been shouting for years that this state needs to tighten up deer hunting for the sake of our mule deer. We are THE ONLY western state with completely wide open and unbridled deer hunting and we have embarrassingly low deer numbers. We have all screamed "follow the science" in recent months due to the spring bear debacle but we fall silent on mule deer when following the science means less opportunity. 

As for hitting wdfw in the wallet, that does nothing more than feeding into exactly what Inslee and his anti's want. Their goal is NO HUNTING so if everyone stops participating they have achieved their goal. Its quite literally exactly what they want. License sales are a mere drop in the bucket that is WA states annual budget. They'll reallocate some funds to pay for blue bird boxes and wolves and they won't give hunting a second thought.

Don't we have fewer overall hunters than the heydays of the early 90's?   

Too many hunters isn't the problem, I rarely bump into them.  The problem is hunters being corralled in smaller spaces due to road closures and dwindling access, and less game due to lack of predator management.

where in my statements did I claim we have more hunters now than in the 90's and how is that stat relevant to current game populations, usable habitat, and fixing the issues at hand?

I believe the focus is wrong, we need to focus on increasing access to timberlands, we need USFS,DNR etc to focus on opening closed roads, and we need to focus on predator management rather than reducing hunters even more.   We're already a 3% minority and your ideas will further reduce that, why have hunting at all for a 1 or 2% minority that squabble about there being too many hunters?   Shoot yourself in the foot for better hunting and less pressure in a couple years?

You're so off base with what I said. You keep pointing out hunter numbers and over crowding.  Where did I say a single thing about over crowding or hunter numbers?  The simple truth is mule deer numbers continue to plummet and we just keep banging away. Sure up in your neck of the woods bears and cats are pretty out of control, but there are large areas of this state with no bears and very few cats yet MD numbers continue to plummet. USABLE habitat continues to shrink by the day but we continue to sell unlimited tags, multi season permits by the hundreds, damage tags for doe's and piles of doe tags in the draws. We can shoot two bears, hunt coyotes year round, and cats almost year round but very few actually do. So whats the realistic answer to help get mule deer back on their feet? Open more roads to increase access to kill more deer? Continue to hunt them unrestricted? Continue killing females? WASHINGTON IS THE ONLY WESTERN STATE WITH UNRESTRICTED MULE DEER HUNTING. How insane is that!?!!

Also your 2% draw odds with 15 points is dishonest and you know it. If it was a statewide draw there would be thousands of tags not dozens like there currently is.

Listen, we wiped all predators from the landscape at the turn of the century when the population of the US was 1/3 of what it was. Of course we had an ungulate boom (which I'd give almost anything to have witnessed) but that was man made, not natural. If we want these species for our children and our grandchildren to be able to hunt we gotta check some selfishness at the door. Yeah we need to kill predators, but we more importantly gotta start preserving habitat. Look to Wyoming and what that state is doing with mule deer migration corridor preservation and its effect on populations.

We can keep screaming predators at the top of our lungs but guess what folks, you aren't gonna bait bears in WA in your lifetime. You're not gonna run cats with hounds in WA in your lifetime. I'll be right there with everyone else screaming we need those back till I can't scream anymore but we gotta quit putting everything on predators. We gotta put our voice behind things that can still actually make a difference 

Karl this simply isn't true!

WASHINGTON IS THE ONLY WESTERN STATE WITH UNRESTRICTED MULE DEER HUNTING.

There is no limit in Idaho or Montana for resident mule deer hunting, maybe limits on non-residents, but not for residents. I'm not sure about other states but suspect there are no limits on resident deer tags in some other states, thinking Wyoming for starters?

[bearpaw]

WA doesn't have to worry about non-resident mule deer hunters, not many want to come here for mule deer. 

[idahohuntr]

I think its a massive mistake to to simplify this down to an R or D issue...and I think alienating moderate democrats is the worst possible thing we could do in this state.  And if you think everything would be fine simply by replacing all D's with R's...take a look at how bad the Montana Republicans tried to screw Montana hunters earlier this year...and how they did screw NR DIY hunters last year. 

All politicians and parties need to be kept in check IMO.  I'm starting to think the best move would be to make Commission positions an elected office...one from each region, not attributed by population.  Then voters could focus on just that issue when they vote for a commissioner.  Fish and Wildlife resources are becoming so valuable to the public it makes no sense to allow unelected bureaucrats to wield this much unchecked power.

So given who holds the political power in this state, who do you think has more influence in commission appointments and gun legislation...a moderate democrat or someone with an R behind their name?

I would like to see R's take back the Senate and give a little more balance and I think that could be achieved.  I do not foresee a scenario where Republicans win the Governor seat in the next few decades...and given the appointment process...I'd suggest to you that moderate dems should not be alienated and lumped in with the crazy/progressive wing of their party.   

[idahohuntr]

I think its a massive mistake to to simplify this down to an R or D issue...and I think alienating moderate democrats is the worst possible thing we could do in this state.  And if you think everything would be fine simply by replacing all D's with R's...take a look at how bad the Montana Republicans tried to screw Montana hunters earlier this year...and how they did screw NR DIY hunters last year. 

Nice how you frame your narrative. Your hatred for outfitters has been noted many times. I'll remind you that outfitter tags were taken away a few years ago from outfitted hunters and outfitters. DIY hunters only gained at the expense of outfitted hunters. So nothing was really taken away from DIY hunters.

Your hatred of DIY hunters has been noted many times.  You are right, Montana voters, by ballot initiative ended outfitter set asides in ~2011(?).  Then in the dark of night Republican reps and the Governor basically brought them back with their new point scheme.  Bottom line - don't give me this BS that D's are all bad for hunting and R's are all good.  There were a crap ton of hunters in Montana this year that came unglued when the R governor and his appointees tried to screw public land hunters.  Politicians from both parties need watched as both can try and screw hunters...so enough of this BS that one party is pure and good and the other is evil...as far as I'm concerned they are all bad, some less bad than others depending on the issue and circumstance and so hunters/voters should never blindly support one political party over another.