First Muzzeloader

[pickardjw]

Looking to buy my first muzzleloader. Thought I had decided on the Traditions Buckstalker XT until I read some bad reviews on forums. Seems like the other reviews I read may not have been particularly valuable and the brand isn't quite as good as others.

CVA and T/C seem to be more reputable brands. Looking at CVA, does the Optima perform better than the Wolf to justify the price difference? I've read that the trigger guard breech lever is kind of annoying and can get hung up and inadvertantly open.

The T/C impact seems to be the only model they have under $500. How does it compare to the Wolf and Optima? I've read different opinions on it's breech pull action, that it can be tough to operate with gloves or when it's cold.

Thoughts on which of these three has the best trigger as well?

[phildobaggins]

I have a T/C Impact. I think I got it new on sale for like $130, can't complain at that price. I've shot two deer with it. Pretty short barrel, not too good at distance in my experience. The trigger on it is amazing. Wish I could speak to the others you're looking at.

[duckmen1]

My personal experience with traditions was a bad one. Athough fairly accurate I had nothing but issues with the evolution. I picked up a TC system one which is a plunger  slide and love it. Although cleaning is the only downfall as you have to dissassemble the entire gun. A little excessive to clean but a great gun. A little outdated for twist rates for modern bullets but great gun non the less. No complaints with my experience with TC. But for todays lineup in muzzleloaders I love Knight rifles. Again went with the knight bighorn which is a plunger slide ignition using musket caps. Got it on sale when I purchased the gun for about $380. Love the gun in every way. Super accurate, solid built gun. Always reliable. Never lets me down. Have dropped a lot of animals with the knight and the TC. But primary carry now is the knight. Aside from the Traditions my guns have always been reliable. A lot of people are switching to 209s which is good but I won't be changing from musket caps any time soon. What ever your decision is good luck and hope people can help with the possible rifles you are interested in and give solid info for you to make your decision.

[JakeLand]

I started with a cva and shot a couple elk under 100 yards I bought a knight disc extreme just cause it was a great deal and couldn’t pass it up . After shooting it and getting great groups out at distance and how natural they feel to shoot I sold the cva accura and never turned back

[haftard]

i love my cva optima. ive killed 3 bulls and 1 cow with it in 4 years. ive only shot it on paper twice. once to sight it in and once to check it after i droped it right on the peep. now my wife has the cva wolf. its an awesome gun for the money. the wolf is alittle lighter then the optima but the wolf is more front heavy. both guns shoot great. have not have an issue, but i will say the "coating" they put on the guns comes off after about 3 years and you start to get rust issues. but that can be fixed with a much needed cerakoat ( how ever the hell you spell that damn word) the stainless barrel is what busted me this year from having 4 bulls in 4 years. how ever i still love the gun. i think i pickd up my optima for 200$ and i got the wolf for 160$.

my brother has the tc encor muzzleloader and its a pretty sweet gun too. but i have little to no first hand experience with it. other then he says he likes the gun.

my uncles have the Acura and honlestly i dont see the reason for paying that much for a muzzleloader you have to use open sights with.  they are pretty sweet and as soon as i draw a muzzloader tag where i can use optics ill go out and buy one. but at the same time i have my optima that is a solid shooter.

lastly BULLET SELECTOIN IS KEY. yes guys have killed critters with a 50 cal round ball, but its not 1776 any more. i have yet to see a poor result when shooting monolithic bullets designed to be shot out of a muzzleloader at slower speeds. personaly i shoot the kinght bloodlines in a 350g. and ill start shooting the 300s once i run out of 350s. every elk ive shot with it has gone less then 100 yards. little blood shot, and ive recovered all but one slug. the barns tsx bullets and other barns options have done amazing also. the reason im telling you this is we have lost 2 or 3 bulls in hunting camp due to the poor design of power belt bullets and we almost lost a cow due to them.
POW'shooting a power belt' . smoke clears.. she is getting back up.. 'then i shoot' pow. dumped her. when we where gutting her out the power belt had hit the shoulder blade. broke it. and stoped. didnt pernitrate more then about 3 inches. and if you watch the meat eater episode when steve is muzzleloader hunting in colorado. he hit a bull high in the shoulder. it looks as if the bullet hit the shoulder blade and didnt pernitrate at all. if i ever get a chance to talk to steve personally i would love to ask him about that bull and how the tracks looked.
any who . hope i answered a few of your questions. hope you find what your looking for and if you didnt. i hope your only take away from my post is to try your best to shoot a monolithic solid copper or brass bullet.

ps sorry for the typos and miss spelling

[bkaech]

I have a CVA optima and LOVE it. I love the trigger guard break action, works great and never had an issue with it and I can't imagine anyone walking through more brush than I do when I hunt. I also love the trigger, but I have not shot a lot of really good rifles. The thing is awesome, shots good, and handles well for me. I have not owned any other muzzleloader but have hunting partners with Knight bolt action muzzy's and some with traditions. I honestly think mine is the best and the only reason I would hunt with a different muzzy is if I got a Hawkins or plainsman style traditional muzzy.

[DeerThug]

I have what is probably the first Traditions that was made.  My dad bought it for me for Christmas like 25 years ago or so.  Pretty sure it was the cheapest muzzle loader that there was at the time.  That gun has killed a ton of deer and elk and even a cougar.  Tough as nails, never a misfire and pretty accurate.  My son and I used to both hunt with it and share it and more than once it killed two deer in the same day.  I have no reason to buy anything else.

All of your choices are equally lethal.  As mentioned bullet choice is, in my opinion,
 more important that the gun it is shot out of.

I think a Traditions will serve you well.  Find one that you like and can afford, learn to shoot it and the rest will work out. 

[teanawayslayer]

Cva and traditions are both made in Spain and by the same manufacturer. I’ve owned both and the both junk imo! Stick with American made. Might cost more but worth every penny!

[WapitiTalk1]

It’s not rocket science brother, get one of these and call it a day.  https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/product/vortek-strikerfire-1-20--vapr-twist-45-caliber-realtree-edge-camo-premium-cerakote-finish

[Sneaky]

I bought my first muzzleloader last year, a CVA accura .50 cal. Was shocked how easy it was to get very accurate results with installation of a williams peep and front sight combo. Very simple and easy to use/clean the CVA rifles. I am not sure if they are the utmost quality in muzzleloading rifles, but they check all the boxes for me at a very reasonable price.

[pickardjw]

Cva and traditions are both made in Spain and by the same manufacturer. I’ve owned both and the both junk imo! Stick with American made. Might cost more but worth every penny!

Oof, yeah those Knight's are pricy. Are they the only American made option? And how does the bolt action compare to the break action in terms of cleaning?

[phildobaggins]

All these opinions are muddying the water even more I feel like 

[pickardjw]

All these opinions are muddying the water even more I feel like 

Just a bit 

A couple good reviews of the CVA's though, and one confirmation on the Traditions being garbage. The worst part is now I'm looking at $900 Knight muzzleloaders!

[carpsniperg2]

I have owened several brands over the years. CVA is has always been good. Traditions was garbage for me.

My backup gun is a cva accura. Solid gun. Best gun I have ever shot is the remignton 700 uml. I have been running one 3 years now. They are getting back into production. I have sold a bunch and other then recoil with the full load no complaints. Lots of guys shooting them 250/300 yards. I am running 150grains instead of 200 and I can shoot very well to 200 yards.

Knights shoot great from all I have been around. Only thing I don't like is the screw safety as I saw that cost a couple critters over the years.

[Farmer72]

Try to find a used one if possible. I bought a Knight Disc Xtreme a few years ago used for $250 and I have never looked back. My dads Tradition he has is garbage. I hate the fact that there is no firing pin and there is just a tit on the plunger. The problem he always had was when you had to use caps the cap would fall off since there was nothing up against it. I didn't have the same issue once he switched to bare 209's for it. He now shoots a T/C encore with the muzzleloader barrel since he already had the frame and he just needed to buy the barrel.

[tank21]

I have the CVA optima and put the peep rib on it.  I think it's fantastic and accurate.  I use (3) 50gr pellets and the 300gr powerbelt platinum bullet. 

[pickardjw]

Guys that have the sub-$500 CVA and T/C's - what do you feel the maximum range is on those? With the potential for 1x scopes here I don't want the muzzleloader itself to limit my range because it's inconsistent beyond 100yds.

[phildobaggins]

With the stock sights on my T/C Impact, I don’t feel comfortable past 100 yards. Now, if I had a Williams peep sight on it, I may feel differently…

[pickardjw]

With the stock sights on my T/C Impact, I don’t feel comfortable past 100 yards. Now, if I had a Williams peep sight on it, I may feel differently…

That's how I felt with my buddy's T/C with iron sights. I'll be west side elk hunting with it this fall so no need to stretch out for that. But I'll be looking at muzzy tags in the future in other states for better draw odds where a peep and further range would be useful.

[haftard]

Guys that have the sub-$500 CVA and T/C's - what do you feel the maximum range is on those? With the potential for 1x scopes here I don't want the muzzleloader itself to limit my range because it's inconsistent beyond 100yds.

the last bull i killd was at 149 yards when i shot him. ive hit steel out to 300. however i would never shoot at a animal that far with iron sights and that much drop. if i could use an adjustable turret  and some glass i would say as far as you can diel.
im shooting 3 50g 777 pellets, winchester 777 209 primers and a 350g bloodline bullet in a cva optima with a Williams peep.

at 150 yards im holding about the top of a 16in gong. at 200 im about a foot or so above the gong and 300 yards i was aming somewhere between 3-5 ft above the target. 150 yards is my max shot on an elk tho.

[pickardjw]

Well if anything I'm learning alot about muzzleloader actions researching these things. It looks like all the used Knights on gunbroker are the older plunger style. Several LK models. Any thoughts on that action vs break action? Looks like most of Knight's current productions are bolt action. Only one really old disc for sale that I can find.

[JakeLand]

Well if anything I'm learning alot about muzzleloader actions researching these things. It looks like all the used Knights on gunbroker are the older plunger style. Several LK models. Any thoughts on that action vs break action? Looks like most of Knight's current productions are bolt action. Only one really old disc for sale that I can find.

both my knights disc extreme are bolt action and are the cats meow

[pickardjw]

How are they for cleaning? And they're a 209 system I assume, right?

[HntnFsh]

My plunger style works great. Easy to clean. Never an issue.
Killed a lot of elk with them!

[JakeLand]

How are they for cleaning? And they're a 209 system I assume, right?

easy bolt slides out and use the wrench to pull out the breach plug takes a couple minutes. Yes bare 209 and flat out shoots . The one thing I didn’t like about the cva was the firing pin and bushing would get corroded so quick and so I always kept a few extras in the shooting box

[pickardjw]

Well the Knights certainly seem like a good investment from everything I've read, here and elsewhere. They seem a bit hard to find though. Within my budget on gunbroker that I'm interested in there's:

A Big Horn .50 thumbhole with stainless barrel and timney trigger.
A nice looking MK85 .50 with 24" barrel and a wood stock
A Wolverine .50 with a thumbhole stock and blued barrel.
A Knight Revolution .50, stainless barrel and wood stock (this one's kinda pretty)
An LK-II .50 stainless barrel.

I know very little about models, but it appears these all have the same action. Descriptions don't all indicate whether they're #11 or 209. Stainless would be nice. Would any of these be legal in Idaho?

I'm also thinking about going with a Wilson FP peep sight. Not sure what front globe yet.

[JakeLand]

Muzzleloaders. Com if you ordered o e you would have it in a month especially if you call them , my buddies kid called and ordered a disc extreme with a bare 209 ignition and he had in like 3 weeks and yes west side hunting =stainless steel 100%

[pickardjw]

They only have .52 caliber from what I can tell. Don't really want to pigeon hole myself into a unique caliber, especially considering how hard stuff has been to find.

[Farmer72]

If you make over to my side of the water you can try my Disc Xtreme out. I still need to shoot it from last year anyway. I don't have the bare primer yet as I kind of like the size of the discs with gloves but will eventually get the bare 209 set-up to try out.

[JakeLand]

They only have .52 caliber from what I can tell. Don't really want to pigeon hole myself into a unique caliber, especially considering how hard stuff has been to find.

call them get a .50

[Myrtle Creek Inc.]

Looking to buy my first muzzleloader. Thought I had decided on the Traditions Buckstalker XT until I read some bad reviews on forums. Seems like the other reviews I read may not have been particularly valuable and the brand isn't quite as good as others.

CVA and T/C seem to be more reputable brands. Looking at CVA, does the Optima perform better than the Wolf to justify the price difference? I've read that the trigger guard breech lever is kind of annoying and can get hung up and inadvertantly open.

The T/C impact seems to be the only model they have under $500. How does it compare to the Wolf and Optima? I've read different opinions on it's breech pull action, that it can be tough to operate with gloves or when it's cold.

Thoughts on which of these three has the best trigger as well?

We have a lot of experience with Traditions, CVA, and Thompson Center. We have had excellent results with the Traditions Buckstalker, Pursuit, and Vortek models. Thus far in our testing, they have proven to be accurate, durable, and user-friendly. The same can be said for the CVA Wolf, Optima, Accura, and Paramount lines. There are pros and cons to both brands, however, in our opinion, one is not objectively better than the other.

As far as the Optima and the Wolf go, I think that the Optima is worth the jump in price for a few reasons. The Optima has a slightly longer barrel that will provide you with increased velocity and allow for longer shots. The Wolf's effective range is roughly 100-150 yards, whereas the Optima can be stretched out to around 200. If you don't plan to shoot further than 100 yards, however, the Wolf will still shoot at least a 2-3" group at 100 yards with tighter groups being very possible depending on bullet and powder combinations.

With regard to Thompson Center, they have always produced high-quality muzzleloaders, however, I would recommend caution when purchasing a T/C because of the current corporate ownership situation. Last year, T/C was divested by the Smith & Wesson brand and all production of T/C products was ceased. So it is unlikely that you will be able to find a T/C in stock, however, if you do, there is no guarantee that there will be any warranty or spare parts available moving forward. Because of this, I would recommend sticking with either Traditions or CVA.

[jbeaumont21]

Well the Knights certainly seem like a good investment from everything I've read, here and elsewhere. They seem a bit hard to find though. Within my budget on gunbroker that I'm interested in there's:

A Big Horn .50 thumbhole with stainless barrel and timney trigger.
A nice looking MK85 .50 with 24" barrel and a wood stock
A Wolverine .50 with a thumbhole stock and blued barrel.
A Knight Revolution .50, stainless barrel and wood stock (this one's kinda pretty)
An LK-II .50 stainless barrel.

I know very little about models, but it appears these all have the same action. Descriptions don't all indicate whether they're #11 or 209. Stainless would be nice. Would any of these be legal in Idaho?

I'm also thinking about going with a Wilson FP peep sight. Not sure what front globe yet.

I put the globe with the cross hair insert on my Knight Disc Extreme and have loved it.  It gives you a much better target than the fat fiber optics that come with the gun. 

https://www.gohunt.com/read/skills/increased-accuracy-from-an-open-sight-muzzleloader#gs.vyno95

[pickardjw]

Well I've decided a Knight Ultra-Lite is probably the best choice. Mostly because I can hunt Idaho with is as well in the future with a few extra parts. I read through another forum post from SabotLoader details the different parts needed to make the conversion. Sounds like it's in my technical skill wheelhouse.

Seeing as a need a new rifle as well I might have to wait for one to pop up used though...two $1000 guns in one year is a bit much for my wallet.

[JakeLand]

Well I've decided a Knight Ultra-Lite is probably the best choice. Mostly because I can hunt Idaho with is as well in the future with a few extra parts. I read through another forum post from SabotLoader details the different parts needed to make the conversion. Sounds like it's in my technical skill wheelhouse.

Seeing as a need a new rifle as well I might have to wait for one to pop up used though...two $1000 guns in one year is a bit much for my wallet.

keep a eye on rockslide as Ive bought a couple knights there

[pickardjw]

Well I've decided a Knight Ultra-Lite is probably the best choice. Mostly because I can hunt Idaho with is as well in the future with a few extra parts. I read through another forum post from SabotLoader details the different parts needed to make the conversion. Sounds like it's in my technical skill wheelhouse.

Seeing as a need a new rifle as well I might have to wait for one to pop up used though...two $1000 guns in one year is a bit much for my wallet.

keep a eye on rockslide as Ive bought a couple knights there

Yeah, the scammers have been pretty effective over there lately so I'm hesitant to post a WTB.  Assuming it's being shipped so cash isn't really an option, how are you getting buyer protection? I assume paypal 3% won't cover it since it's arguably a firearm.

[JakeLand]

I look at how long they been a member and how many posts they’ve done , due diligent research and I haven’t gotten burned yet

[carpsniperg2]

I look at how long they been a member and how many posts they’ve done , due diligent research and I haven’t gotten burned yet

x2 and the staff here watches the classifieds pretty hard myself included. If i see anything fishy it gets gone. If people get much for negative trade count they can go the way of the buffalo we don't need our good members getting hit with scammers.

Like said WTB with messages direct to your inbox is how most scammers get you. If the person is not a long standing member there is a few steps you can do to help. Most people can facetime or some kind of live feed for you to see. Have them show you the gun over that. Not just a picture. Most scammers dont have what they are saying they are selling and just fish pic's off the net. Also you can ask if they sell on any of the common platforms like ebay and gun broker etc and match there location to the user name and see if it adds up and if it does read the feedback.

[pickardjw]

Yeah I usually do reverse image searches, read through their posts, and all the other basics, etc. When you have paypal buyer protection for a jacket or something, that's usually enough. For a gun where no online payment system will give you buyer protection, something like facetime might be the ticket...good thing I broke all my phone cameras on a rock in a snowboarding crash last month! I think the ipad will do the job though.

Rokslide has been hit pretty hard recently though. Seems like people might be buying accounts or playing the longggg con where they post like normal people, sell a few things to get credibility then scam someone for a bigger amount.

Setting it up through Gunbroker seems like it would be ideal for buyer protection but it looks like a real pain for a one time sale as the seller.

So yeah, gotta have a lot of trust in that facetime! Hopefully a used Ultra-Lite goes for under $500 at least though...