6 grains/pound rule????

[N7XW]

Did WDFW do away with the 6 gpp rule?  I just checked WAC 220-414-070 and didn't see it.  I'm just getting back into bow hunting and this would help me.  I only draw 60 lbs and have a 27" draw length, so any additional speed I can get helps.  And, yes, I know 5 gpp is minimum safe weight.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

I actually thought it was 9gph..
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But honestly, didn't think it through that far.
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Momentum, velocity, windage, elevation.
Accuracy is constantly putting your trajecile in the proper place.
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When I first started bowhunting, the concept was to put a SHARP broadhead into the center mass off the heart/lung area and let it cut tissue as the animal reacted.
This killed them fast, clean, efficient.
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Clean cuts, complete blow-throughs, and small blood trails were not something we bragged about.
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It was a fast death, and lots of blood.
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Sharp broadhead only needs to hit the vital organs.
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Sure, 2 holes are better than one, but if you kill it, it's dead.
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The quickest way, is to cause damage.
Immediate and unrecoverable damage.
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I would rather follow a blood trail from a heavy arrow that makes them bleed a lot than a light arrow that leaves a small incision.
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I think that is the reasoning behind the old rule.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

But, I still use wood arrows, what do I know..

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

But, I still use wood arrows, what do I know..

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Complete different, but similar comparison.
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I shot a bull elk with a muzzleloader.
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Top of the line projectile.
Blood trail to animal still standing.
3 of us looking at this bull from probably 5 feet.
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It was dead, it just had not accepted this fact.
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Neither did we.
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3 follow up shots from 3 different rifles, (muzzleloader)
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Final story?
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Soft lead caused the most damage, and actually finished what the "modern" projectiles only ruined the meat.
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My lesson?
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The most damage I can cause to vital organs with a heavy and slow projectile will kill faster than an accurate scalpel.
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The animal still will die, but easy blood trails and quick recovery is the object.
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Sweet shot!
But not interested in leaving one overnight, or watching one cough up blood for 3 hours. (different story)

[blackveltbowhunter]

Yes. They did away with the rule a few years back.

For my personal setup i dont get very worked up over speed. But, if it works for you the change is nice because its one less thing to worry about.

[N7XW]

Yes. They did away with the rule a few years back.

For my personal setup i dont get very worked up over speed. But, if it works for you the change is nice because its one less thing to worry about.

Thank you for the confirmation 

[blindluck]

I never understood the reason behind it, Safety reasons? With the old rule it would’ve been illegal for me to shoot my dad‘s arrows as his were lighter than mine so essentially I would’ve shot his arrows faster flatter and with higher kinetic energy than what he could produce with his bow yet it was legal for him an illegal for me so the only thing I can think of is safety

[MeepDog]

Look up the Ashby foundation. They've done studies on arrow setups and heavier arrows penetrate and kill better.

[GWP]

Grew up with bows and my father and others making bows.
Met Glenn St Charles and other 'early' bow hunters. Most did not use what would be considered 'high powered' bows.
"Bows On The Little Delta" is a great read.

[yajsab]

I shoot 60# @ 26". I started out focusing on speed due to my short draw and stay near the old regulation. If you want penetration, forget about focusing too much on speed. Get your arrow weight in between 400 to 450 grn and you should be good. I know this is not what you asked but just sharing my experience.

[jrebel]

For hunting, I would take a heavy arrow over speed 100% of the time.  A good combination is ideal.....   

[N7XW]

I agree with everyone saying a heavier arrow is better for penetration.  However, I like the fact that they removed the 6gpp rule as it now gives me more options for correctly spined arrows at my drawlength.

[OltHunter]

To answer the OP, must have, but I don't remember a grains per pound rule prior.

But from WDFW regs:
Rules pertaining to longbow, recurve bow, and compound bow archery:
It is unlawful for any person to hunt big game animals with a bow that does not produce a minimum of 40 pounds of pull measured at
twenty-eight inches or at full draw.
It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with any arrow measuring less than 20 inches in length.

This is actually terribly written.  If you "measure" pull at 28" or at full draw, we'd all have illegal compound bows with 65%+ let off.  We'd have to have a 200 pound draw bow with a 80% let off to be legal!

What I believe this means, and you should contact WDFW or a game warden for confirmation, is that your bow needs to have a 40 pound draw, no matter what draw length you have as long as your arrow is 20".  I think if ever checked, the gamey would look at your bows pound rating is 40+ and see if your arrow is 20"+

So you are more than good now.

For hunting, I would take a heavy arrow over speed 100% of the time.  A good combination is ideal.....   

Agreed.  All speed will get generally get you is a flatter shooting arrow, and thus a bigger window if misjudging range by a few yards, but with most effective hunting distances within 50 yards, speed and arrow drop isn't going to be a real game changer in my opinion. 

Grains per pound I don't believe should even be something you are thinking about when you are building your arrows and setup!  Overall arrow weight could though and I'm sort of middle ground on the hole FOC movement, but there is enough evidence to think about that at least in your choices.

Use a spine calculator to make sure you have the right spine for your setup is a lot more important as well.  If your current spine shows you can only have a total arrow weight of 400 and you are looking to hunt elk, you'd probably want to get a heaver spine and work it up more.  You'd be surprised how many people actually have too light of spine for their setups.

[N7XW]

I believe the poundage rule states 40lb at 28" or less.  So, compounds meet the requirement that way.

[OltHunter]

I believe the poundage rule states 40lb at 28" or less.  So, compounds meet the requirement that way.

True based on what we all think they meant, but compounds have let off. So the way it was written, "40 pounds of pull measured at
twenty-eight inches or at full draw", if you're really measuring the weight at 28" or at full draw and 80% let off of a 40 lb bow, the actual weight measured would be 8 pounds. That 40 pounds of pull is actually only over the first 1/2 of your draw cycle or so.

I was just splitting hairs, but it could be worded better.

[Rob]

I would read that as it requires at least 40lbs of pull to reach a 28 in or full draw. 

In other words it took 40 pounds of pull to get to full draw, regardless of how much let-off there is once at full draw.


But it is written a bit confusing.

[dilleytech]

Heavier arrows penetrate better, fly better, and result in a quieter bow on the shot. Speed does help some with accuracy as far as elevation guessing goes but if your using a rangefinder you really are better off with a heavier arrow. You don’t need to shoot anything crazy like 600+ but being in the 450-500 range is a good arrow weight I think. You will wish you had a heavier arrow when you meet a shoulder blade. Also if your shooting a lighter weight arrow make sure your shooting a good smaller fixed blade broadhead to help with penetration.

[blackveltbowhunter]

I agree. All else being equal. A well tuned 420 grain arrow, will knock the water out of a 500 grain  corksrew. Weight alone is only part of the equation.

So many variables, and changing one thing change everything. If a shooter is a perfectionist get a saw and build your own, this will allow the most options to really customize the spine and find one your bow really loves in the numbers you want. Other wise find a shop willing to discuss arrows and builds  and has knowledge and will attempt to tailor to those needs. Adding weights to the front of arrows, or cutting them short to maximize FOC, spine charts tend to go out the window.

[GWP]

I have a ‘large’ friend that shoots 632 (measured) grain 32” aluminum full length arrows with his old Hoyt bow that is 87 lbs (measured three times) and he pulls it back and holds it like it is nothing. That is speed and weight.
You ain’t seen nothing until you see someone shoot something like that.
Every shot knocked over my target. It was worth going and setting it up just to watch him knock it over again.
Reminded me of watching Brock Lesner yanking a deer he shot out of a creek, and then walking off, dragging it with one hand. They are both very powerful humans.
Me? Before shoulder surgeries, 63 lb bow shooting 365 grains. My deer have been through and through shots, but none were more than 20 yards away.
If you go light on pounds, get closer.

[dilleytech]

I have a ‘large’ friend that shoots 632 (measured) grain 32” aluminum full length arrows with his old Hoyt bow that is 87 lbs (measured three times) and he pulls it back and holds it like it is nothing. That is speed and weight.
You ain’t seen nothing until you see someone shoot something like that.
Every shot knocked over my target. It was worth going and setting it up just to watch him knock it over again.
Reminded me of watching Brock Lesner yanking a deer he shot out of a creek, and then walking off, dragging it with one hand. They are both very powerful humans.
Me? Before shoulder surgeries, 63 lb bow shooting 365 grains. My deer have been through and through shots, but none were more than 20 yards away.
If you go light on pounds, get closer.

An old hoyt at 87# is probably a bit slower then modern 70# bows. What your witnessing at the target is all about the momentum of that very heavy arrow. Girls kill plenty of animals with 40# bows and light arrows. I wouldn’t be afraid of a faster lighter arrow as much as how that arrow flys, how strong the arrow is on impact and how loud your bow is going off.

Broadside with a fixed blade to the ribs and it doesn’t really matter once the arrow is there.