Would 9mm deter a Cougar?

[MuleyBuckFever]

I hope I’m posting in the right category, and sorry if I am not. But last Fall I was muzzleloader hunting and I was down in a canyon and came face to face with a cougar about 20 yards from me. Having never seen a cougar in 32 years of hunting in this area I was quite surprised and obviously unprepared as I only had my muzzleloader on me. Luckily the cougar was as discouraged as I was of a confrontation. With that said I will not be muzzleloading without a side arm any longer. My question is would a 9mm pistol deter a cougar if I were to be attacked? I understand a larger caliber would likely be better but the reason I ask is I am looking to purchase a firearm I can use with my CPL and I’d like to kill 2 birds with one stone if I can and not buy a larger caliber that I only use when I go hunting. I think I want to get the Springfield Hellcat RDP before the new ban goes into effect on July 1. Thank you for your responses, and again I apologize if this is not the right forum for this type of question.

[emac]

First off you should of blazed the cat with your muzzy and I also believe a 9 would work just fine at close range just keep pulling the trigger.

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[bobcat]

I think it would do a good job on a cat as long as you're using a good bullet that's designed to expand quickly.

[elkrack]

First off you should of blazed the cat with your muzzy and I also believe a 9 would work just fine at close range just keep pulling the trigger.

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[buckfvr]

I wont even go into shootability, accuracy etc., but I will mention law requires a 4" barrel for hunting and if you expect to encounter a cat, have a tag and a legal weapon so you can keep the animal.

Yes a 9mm will do cat all day long but the likely hood of a bear encounter is generally far greater than a cat encounter and 9mm is not my choice for bear.

Focusing on edc concealed carry and the gun you mention is a compromise for a woods gun.

[Iveexcaped3]

Yes, a buddy of mines brother in law smoked one with his .380 setting up cameras. Basically just unloaded on it, maybe there was a lucky shot in there but it did work so yes a 9mm will work. But that’s also about as large of a predator you’ll get with it.

[nwwanderer]

The problem is if it wants you it is unlikely you will see or here it before you are down.  Should work great if you are very fast and it is very slow.  Be careful out there

[Fidelk]

A 9mm should be more than enough to kill them. I've read that they are fairly easy to kill. You could always upgrade to a 10mm......Glock 20, etc. if that fits in with your concealed carry plans.

[pickardjw]

My understanding is that bullet choice is important. Hollow point self-defense type rounds intended for use against soft fleshy humans are going to be less effective against hairy, thick skinned animals. Not enough penetration before they expand.

People have successfully taken down griz with Buffalo bore hard cast 9mm. Obviously not ideal for that animal but it lends me some confidence towards its effectiveness against black bear and cougar. So That’s what I carry around here. The +P in a 17rd mag. I’m comfortable with that setup.

[Stein]

I would go with the same bullets you CC with.  Cats aren't that thick or heavy boned, penetration will be more than enough with anything other than a frangible bullet.  Expanding bullets are so much more effective from the tons of data on 9mm hitting people.  It's not even close.

BUT, if you are concerned with bears as well that would likely steer me to a more sturdy bullet.  For cats and people, it's a proven self defense bullet in my opinion.

[jackelope]

I would say that people are killing cougars every year with .22 cal centerfire rounds. A 9mm should be more than ample. Adrenaline will be a factor.

[Woodchuck]

I would say that people are killing cougars every year with .22 cal centerfire rounds. A 9mm should be more than ample. Adrenaline will be a factor.

It's hard to shoot with crap running down your leg.

[Oldguy]

I don't think the 4" barrel for handgun hunting would apply if it was used for protection. And I would agree that the 9mm with
 ammo would work fine.

[Stein]

If you shoot one with a 4" or larger barrel in season with a tag you get to take it home.  If not, I would imagine it necessary to call the warden and report what happened and likely not take it home with you.

[rainshadow1]

They are not particularly thick skinned. They are very 'electric' and more difficult to switch off, but that has more to do with bullet performance and 'shock power' than the firepower numbers. They do have some massive bones, but you'll have lots of rounds to sneak one in there! 9mm is fine, don't expect them to crumple, and a front leg bone will likely keep a bullet out of the ribcage. but skin, muscle, ribs, no problem. And it'd keep you from getting scratched up and gnawed on!

[buckfvr]

I don't think the 4" barrel for handgun hunting would apply if it was used for protection. And I would agree that the 9mm with
 ammo would work fine.

Sure it doesnt apply but why not have the tag and the legal weapon ?  Hes had his once in a lifetime close cat encounter, buying a gun now is a real long shot that it will happen again.   

[Oldguy]

I don't think the 4" barrel for handgun hunting would apply if it was used for protection. And I would agree that the 9mm with
 ammo would work fine.

Sure it doesnt apply but why not have the tag and the legal weapon ?  Hes had his once in a lifetime close cat encounter, buying a gun now is a real long shot that it will happen again.   

[Cougartail]

Can you carry a modern firearm during muzzleloading seasons?

[KFhunter]

Agree.

For protection run what you brung, always. A 9mm would smoke a cat, wolf or yotes.  I happen to know they can smoke a bear too, especially a small 150lb blackie, but most everyone including myself thinks its a bit light for bear protection.

If you want to tag and keep the animal then all hunting rules apply. Maybe they'll give you an exception and let you tag it, dunno.

If the cat was killed in self defense, then it gets surrendered to WDFW and tossed in the dump.

[KFhunter]

Can you carry a modern firearm during muzzleloading seasons?

You can *always carry a modern handgun for self defense while engaging in an outdoor activity.  It doesn't fall under the hunting umbrella of laws, until you "hunt" with it. If you "hunt" with it, then it needs to comply with hunting restrictions on handguns, if you tag a self defense killed animal, then you hunted it.  If you killed it under self defense, then it gets surrendered to WDFW and ends up in a dump.

*Other than felons etc, which couldn't muzzleloader hunt anyways.

[kselkhunter]

As mentioned 9mm is fine for a cat.  I always have a cat and bear tag in my pocket, so pack my 357mag with 5" barrel during archery season so can keep the animal.

That's rare to see a cat in daylight like that.  I frequently see them at night when hiking back to backcoutnry camp during archery elk season in our favorite spot.  Usually just the young ones, never see mature ones.  The young ones are very curious and like to follow us at night as we make our way back to camp from our evening hunt.  But they never advance inside 20 yards, and run off when we yell or chase them.  Can't legally shoot them in the dark unless it's self defense, and we always talk to them and dare them to show their face during daylight hours....they never do.  Lots of non-hunting backpackers up there, so not going to shoot a cat at night unless it's legally warranted or we'll end up with more trouble than it's worth.  But one of these days I hope to fill my cougar tag up there in daylight hours.

[KFhunter]

I put my TRL1 HL 1000 lumen weapon light on a cat in the dark, it stared at it ahwile, then I advanced on it, the cat spun around and ran into a stump 

[Rob]

Since we now know that a 9mm bullet will remove a human lung, I think it would do a find job on a thin skinned predator like a cat.

[Okanagan]

Ditto to several that a 9mm is plenty for a cougar, especially with an expanding bullet... if the operator can hit with it. 

When I was a kid old time hound men often used a .22 pistol to kill treed cougars.  Of course, that is usually at a non-moving target with plenty of time to aim. 

[Bob33]

Can you carry a modern firearm during muzzleloading seasons?

You can *always carry a modern handgun for self defense while engaging in an outdoor activity.  It doesn't fall under the hunting umbrella of laws, until you "hunt" with it. If you "hunt" with it, then it needs to comply with hunting restrictions on handguns, if you tag a self defense killed animal, then you hunted it.  If you killed it under self defense, then it gets surrendered to WDFW and ends up in a dump.

*Other than felons etc, which couldn't muzzleloader hunt anyways.

Remember that using a modern firearm to hunt big game during a muzzleloader season is not legal.

[bornhunter]

As mentioned 9mm is fine for a cat.  I always have a cat and bear tag in my pocket, so pack my 357mag with 5" barrel during archery season so can keep the animal.

That's rare to see a cat in daylight like that.  I frequently see them at night when hiking back to backcoutnry camp during archery elk season in our favorite spot.  Usually just the young ones, never see mature ones.  The young ones are very curious and like to follow us at night as we make our way back to camp from our evening hunt.  But they never advance inside 20 yards, and run off when we yell or chase them.  Can't legally shoot them in the dark unless it's self defense, and we always talk to them and dare them to show their face during daylight hours....they never do.  Lots of non-hunting backpackers up there, so not going to shoot a cat at night unless it's legally warranted or we'll end up with more trouble than it's worth.  But one of these days I hope to fill my cougar tag up there in daylight hours.

I was told if you are archery hunting and come across a cougar and you have a cougar tag you cant take the cat with a handgun but must take it with your bow. True? 

[Bob33]

As mentioned 9mm is fine for a cat.  I always have a cat and bear tag in my pocket, so pack my 357mag with 5" barrel during archery season so can keep the animal.

That's rare to see a cat in daylight like that.  I frequently see them at night when hiking back to backcoutnry camp during archery elk season in our favorite spot.  Usually just the young ones, never see mature ones.  The young ones are very curious and like to follow us at night as we make our way back to camp from our evening hunt.  But they never advance inside 20 yards, and run off when we yell or chase them.  Can't legally shoot them in the dark unless it's self defense, and we always talk to them and dare them to show their face during daylight hours....they never do.  Lots of non-hunting backpackers up there, so not going to shoot a cat at night unless it's legally warranted or we'll end up with more trouble than it's worth.  But one of these days I hope to fill my cougar tag up there in daylight hours.

I was told if you are archery hunting and come across a cougar and you have a cougar tag you cant take the cat with a handgun but must take it with your bow. True?

This is the muzzleloader WAC: https://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-414-060

"In addition to the above requirements, it is unlawful to participate (hunt) in a muzzleloading hunting season using a firearm that does not meet the following specifications for a muzzleloader. However, a modern handgun may be carried for personal protection. Modern handguns cannot be used to hunt big game or dispatch wounded big game during a big game hunting season for muzzleloading firearms.:

This the archery WAC: https://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-414-070

"It is unlawful for any person to carry or have in his possession any firearm while archery hunting in the field during an archery season specified for that area, except for modern handguns carried for personal protection. Modern handguns cannot be used to hunt big game or dispatch wounded big game during an archery big game hunting season."

I suppose an enforcement officer could interpret it differently, but to me it would be illegal to use a handgun to kill a big game animal for a reason other than self defense during an archery or muzzleloader season.

[Platensek-po]

As mentioned 9mm is fine for a cat.  I always have a cat and bear tag in my pocket, so pack my 357mag with 5" barrel during archery season so can keep the animal.

That's rare to see a cat in daylight like that.  I frequently see them at night when hiking back to backcoutnry camp during archery elk season in our favorite spot.  Usually just the young ones, never see mature ones.  The young ones are very curious and like to follow us at night as we make our way back to camp from our evening hunt.  But they never advance inside 20 yards, and run off when we yell or chase them.  Can't legally shoot them in the dark unless it's self defense, and we always talk to them and dare them to show their face during daylight hours....they never do.  Lots of non-hunting backpackers up there, so not going to shoot a cat at night unless it's legally warranted or we'll end up with more trouble than it's worth.  But one of these days I hope to fill my cougar tag up there in daylight hours.

I was told if you are archery hunting and come across a cougar and you have a cougar tag you cant take the cat with a handgun but must take it with your bow. True?

Not true. You most definitely can.

[kselkhunter]

As mentioned 9mm is fine for a cat.  I always have a cat and bear tag in my pocket, so pack my 357mag with 5" barrel during archery season so can keep the animal.

That's rare to see a cat in daylight like that.  I frequently see them at night when hiking back to backcoutnry camp during archery elk season in our favorite spot.  Usually just the young ones, never see mature ones.  The young ones are very curious and like to follow us at night as we make our way back to camp from our evening hunt.  But they never advance inside 20 yards, and run off when we yell or chase them.  Can't legally shoot them in the dark unless it's self defense, and we always talk to them and dare them to show their face during daylight hours....they never do.  Lots of non-hunting backpackers up there, so not going to shoot a cat at night unless it's legally warranted or we'll end up with more trouble than it's worth.  But one of these days I hope to fill my cougar tag up there in daylight hours.

I was told if you are archery hunting and come across a cougar and you have a cougar tag you cant take the cat with a handgun but must take it with your bow. True?

The spot I am referring to in my post is in Oregon, and yes I can harvest the cougar during legal daylight hours with my revolver as my revolver meets the state's minimum handgun caliber size regulations.   I can harvest the cat with any legal weapon: archery, muzzleloader, handgun, rifle, or shotgun as long as the weapon meets the state's requirement.  OR regulations allow for harvesting bear and cougar during archery season with a handgun (or any legal weapon).  For WA state, Bob33 posted the relevant information above.

[Platensek-po]

As mentioned 9mm is fine for a cat.  I always have a cat and bear tag in my pocket, so pack my 357mag with 5" barrel during archery season so can keep the animal.

That's rare to see a cat in daylight like that.  I frequently see them at night when hiking back to backcoutnry camp during archery elk season in our favorite spot.  Usually just the young ones, never see mature ones.  The young ones are very curious and like to follow us at night as we make our way back to camp from our evening hunt.  But they never advance inside 20 yards, and run off when we yell or chase them.  Can't legally shoot them in the dark unless it's self defense, and we always talk to them and dare them to show their face during daylight hours....they never do.  Lots of non-hunting backpackers up there, so not going to shoot a cat at night unless it's legally warranted or we'll end up with more trouble than it's worth.  But one of these days I hope to fill my cougar tag up there in daylight hours.

I was told if you are archery hunting and come across a cougar and you have a cougar tag you cant take the cat with a handgun but must take it with your bow. True?

This is the muzzleloader WAC: https://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-414-060

"In addition to the above requirements, it is unlawful to participate (hunt) in a muzzleloading hunting season using a firearm that does not meet the following specifications for a muzzleloader. However, a modern handgun may be carried for personal protection. Modern handguns cannot be used to hunt big game or dispatch wounded big game during a big game hunting season for muzzleloading firearms.:

This the archery WAC: https://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-414-070

"It is unlawful for any person to carry or have in his possession any firearm while archery hunting in the field during an archery season specified for that area, except for modern handguns carried for personal protection. Modern handguns cannot be used to hunt big game or dispatch wounded big game during an archery big game hunting season."

I suppose an enforcement officer could interpret it differently, but to me it would be illegal to use a handgun to kill a big game animal for a reason other than self defense during an archery or muzzleloader season.

But there is no muzzleloader season for cougar. That only applies to animals that have a muzzleloader season. You most definitely can hunt bears with a modern firearm during archery or muzzleloader seasons. You cannot hunt with a modern firearm if you are hunting a muzzleloader season, as in you have a muzzleloader tag for elk and it’s during the season you cannot hunt elk with anything other than a muzzleloader or archery. You definitely could target bear or cougar during that time and use a modern firearm. I wouldn’t mix both at the same time though.

[simondude]

If it can tear a human lung from out of the body I would think it should be fine for a cat.

[KFhunter]

Can you carry a modern firearm during muzzleloading seasons?

You can *always carry a modern handgun for self defense while engaging in an outdoor activity.  It doesn't fall under the hunting umbrella of laws, until you "hunt" with it. If you "hunt" with it, then it needs to comply with hunting restrictions on handguns, if you tag a self defense killed animal, then you hunted it.  If you killed it under self defense, then it gets surrendered to WDFW and ends up in a dump.

*Other than felons etc, which couldn't muzzleloader hunt anyways.

Remember that using a modern firearm to hunt big game during a muzzleloader season is not legal.

Self defense is, so its up to the officer if they'll let you tag it, if otherwise legal,  I think you have a good chance of bringing it home

A "hunted" cougar is better than a "self defense" cougar for WDFW in the media

[duckmen1]

Just listen to Biden on the subject. The cougars lungs would fly out of its body if hit with a 9mm. Must be an amazing round. 

[bornhunter]

As mentioned 9mm is fine for a cat.  I always have a cat and bear tag in my pocket, so pack my 357mag with 5" barrel during archery season so can keep the animal.

That's rare to see a cat in daylight like that.  I frequently see them at night when hiking back to backcoutnry camp during archery elk season in our favorite spot.  Usually just the young ones, never see mature ones.  The young ones are very curious and like to follow us at night as we make our way back to camp from our evening hunt.  But they never advance inside 20 yards, and run off when we yell or chase them.  Can't legally shoot them in the dark unless it's self defense, and we always talk to them and dare them to show their face during daylight hours....they never do.  Lots of non-hunting backpackers up there, so not going to shoot a cat at night unless it's legally warranted or we'll end up with more trouble than it's worth.  But one of these days I hope to fill my cougar tag up there in daylight hours.

I was told if you are archery hunting and come across a cougar and you have a cougar tag you cant take the cat with a handgun but must take it with your bow. True?

This is the muzzleloader WAC: https://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-414-060

"In addition to the above requirements, it is unlawful to participate (hunt) in a muzzleloading hunting season using a firearm that does not meet the following specifications for a muzzleloader. However, a modern handgun may be carried for personal protection. Modern handguns cannot be used to hunt big game or dispatch wounded big game during a big game hunting season for muzzleloading firearms.:

This the archery WAC: https://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-414-070

"It is unlawful for any person to carry or have in his possession any firearm while archery hunting in the field during an archery season specified for that area, except for modern handguns carried for personal protection. Modern handguns cannot be used to hunt big game or dispatch wounded big game during an archery big game hunting season."

I suppose an enforcement officer could interpret it differently, but to me it would be illegal to use a handgun to kill a big game animal for a reason other than self defense during an archery or muzzleloader season.

That is the way I took it. I had my 44 with me and had an easy 15 yard shot but I took my cat with my bow because of the language in the regs. The cat was treed up so I actually had time to look at the regs before shooting. The bio in Olympia agreed but he didnt seem to well versed on the regs.

[KFhunter]

imo - any dangerous animal at 15 yards,  that knows you're there, is a self defense situation

[Guy]

A friend of mine had just left her horses and other animals for the evening and was walking back to her house when she encountered a mountain lion on her property, between her barn and her home. She shot it with her 9mm Glock, wounding it, then followed it a short way and shot it again, killing it.

She'd practiced with me two or three times a few months ago. Obviously those lessons took hold. She did real well.

WDFW and the local Sheriff's deputies responded. All was well. It was ruled a legal shoot.

Regards, Guy

[carpsniperg2]

At close range any 9mm will be more than enough to kill a lion. Plenty of people have killed black bears with them and also a few grizz I have read about over the years.

The 9mm is not a powerhouse but its very effective at close range. I have butchered beef with a 9mm to test bullets and have killed them stone dead with a close range melon shot.

[kenjo]

If you decide to carry a 9mm for self defense against 2 or 4 legged predators, the same rules apply: Carry the bullet that would be most effective against the attacker, and practice, practice, practice. Loading your pistol with a magic silver bullet won't do any good if you can't make an effective hit while the adrenalin is flowing and your hands are shaking. Carry the pistol where it will be quickly accessible and be able to draw and fire an accurate shot quickly enough to stop the threat. On the bright side, the chances of having another close encounter with a cougar is slim.

[dreadi]

I once shot an elk with a Glock 19 and Winchester JHP. The bullet did not penetrate the hide. I fleshed the hide the next day and found the bullet in the hide. It was not the right bullet for a kill shot and I later changed to carrying 10MM.


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[JimmyHoffa]

I once shot an elk with a Glock 19 and Winchester JHP. The bullet did not penetrate the hide. I fleshed the hide the next day and found the bullet in the hide. It was not the right bullet for a kill shot and I later changed to carrying 10MM.


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Yeah, the bullet design can be critical.  A buddy had to shoot a blacktail a number of times with his FNAR in .308 Win due to bullets not really delivering.  They would penetrate the hide, but not go through the shoulder and the ones that went in behind the shoulder barely made it to the opposite side rib cage.  When he grabbed a few boxes of ammo it was the CXP1 stuff for varmints and didn't notice.

[pickardjw]

https://www.americanhunter.org/content/alaska-outfitter-defends-fishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/

[andrew_in_idaho]

I shot my mountain lion with a .17, pretty sure a 9mm will kill it


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[buckfvr]

imo - any dangerous animal at 15 yards,  that knows you're there, is a self defense situation

Should they decide, they can close that distance so fast as to be a blink of the eye.  I wont tolerate an aggressive predator, if it doesnt vamoose as soon as it encounters me at in the neighborhood of 15yds and is still fronting me, I have to  assume  further hesitation on my behalf would lead to an attack.     

[AdnaHunter]

It’ll blow the lung right out

[jackelope]

[OneHoleGun]

9mm will work great. I had to put 2 it a cat some years back with my 45 and he didn't like it at all. 2 through tje shoulder and he was still fighting. Pretty tuff buggers. Just shoot to kill not scare and you'll be fine.

[HighlandLofts]

It's your life you are writing about. Don't cheap out, buy a gun for the job at hand.
Will 9mm work?
Yest it will.
I know a guy who temple shot a deer in his garden and dropped it like a hot potato.
 Is it advisable, he'll no, but it did kill the deer.
That's like the story of the guy killing a grizzly with a 9mm pistol, he got lucky.

I worked with a guy who use to be a gang banger until he got shot nine times with a 9mm pistol and lived. That ended his gang banger days.
Buy what you want, but personally I bought a Glock 20 in 10mm for woods carry.
It is only money, you can scrape it up over time.

[MADMAX]

+1 on the G20
Love it
Chest rig and Trujis
Practice on paper plates on stumps in clear cuts
Run and gun

[Cougartail]

It's your life you are writing about. Don't cheap out, buy a gun for the job at hand.
Will 9mm work?
Yest it will.
I know a guy who temple shot a deer in his garden and dropped it like a hot potato.
 Is it advisable, he'll no, but it did kill the deer.
That's like the story of the guy killing a grizzly with a 9mm pistol, he got lucky.

I worked with a guy who use to be a gang banger until he got shot nine times with a 9mm pistol and lived. That ended his gang banger days.
Buy what you want, but personally I bought a Glock 20 in 10mm for woods carry.
It is only money, you can scrape it up over time.

lol.. That guy who you say "got lucky" forgot more about killing large brown bears taking a dump this morning than the combined knowledge of everyone on this website. (Including me!)

He is world renowned and has 4 decades of living in the bush.

I carry the XD-M 10mm with a TLR-6 light/lazer.