Removing the Snake River dams

[Dan-o]

****Trout. Mushy ass trout.

Objectively not correct.  If you really believe this, you're asking not to be taken seriously.  You don't have another HuntWa handle and an axe to grind over certain import trucks, do you?

 

[jeffro]

Great info Jeffro - can you share the source?

https://portoflewiston.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Snake-River-Dams-The-Facts-PNWA.pdf

1 Pacific Northwest Waterways Association, 2017
2 Waterborne Commerce of the U.S., 2014
3 Waterborne Commerce of the U.S., 2014
4 Texas Transportation Institute, Texas A&M University, for the U.S. Maritime Administration, 2008 5 Study by economist Eric Fruits, PhD., 2013
6 Pacific Northwest Waterways Association, 2017 7 U.S. Department of Agriculture, 2016
8 Waterborne Commerce of the U.S., 2014
9 Waterborne Commerce of the U.S., 2014
10 U.S. Wheat Associates, 2016
11 U.S. Wheat Associates, 2016
12 Idaho Wheat Commission, 2007
13 Bonneville Power Administration, 2009
14 Northwest Power and Conservation Council, Sixth Northwest Conservation and Electric Power Plan, 2010
15 Bonneville Power Administration, 2016
16 Bonneville Power Administration, 2016
17 (US Army Corps of Engineers and Bonneville Power Adminsitration, 2014)
18 (Bonneville Power Administration, 2010) and (US Army Corps of Engineers and Bonneville Power Administration, 2014)
19 (Bonneville Power Administration, 2010) and (US Army Corps of Engineers and Bonneville Power Administration, 2014)
20 (US Army Corps of Engineers and Bonneville Power Administration, 2014)
21 (US Army Corps of Engineers and Bonneville Power Administration, 2014)

[jeffro]

And yes I have relatives and people I love deeply affected by this proposal.
Did You know?
Orcas eat seal lions, grey whales, dog fish, cod even great white sharks and every species of salmon, not just the mystical native chinook?

[Jake Dogfish]

Removal of any of the Snake river dams would have massive benefits to the environment and the economy.  It will never happen in our lifetime though. Lots of money is being spent by dam huggers to scare people in to getting the word out and protect the status quo.
We can’t even get the gillnets out, dams are just a pipe dream.

[jeffro]

Removal of any of the Snake river dams would have massive benefits to the environment and the economy.  It will never happen in our lifetime though. Lots of money is being spent by dam huggers to scare people in to getting the word out and protect the status quo.
We can’t even get the gillnets out, dams are just a pipe dream.

What part of the economy?
Wind turbine manufacturing and install?
Solar panel manufacturing and install?
Trucking, and the big oil to fuel it?
Railroad? That’s a joke!
How will it affect inflation….
25-30% increase in YOUR power bill
That’ll really stoke up our economy

[Timberstalker]

****Trout. Mushy ass trout.

Objectively not correct.  If you really believe this, you're asking not to be taken seriously.  You don't have another HuntWa handle and an axe to grind over certain import trucks, do you?

I absolutely know they are “salmon.”

I have no axe to grind on the salmon. It’s the fact that there’s a consideration to take these dams out, and deal with the implications.

How about we deal with the predators first and see where that gets us.

Let’s kill some seals, terns, cormorants, gulls.

Let’s take some gill nets out of the water.

That’s a cheap and less crazy approach.

[Boss .300 winmag]

Removal of any of the Snake river dams would have massive benefits to the environment and the economy.  It will never happen in our lifetime though. Lots of money is being spent by dam huggers to scare people in to getting the word out and protect the status quo.
We can’t even get the gillnets out, dams are just a pipe dream.

Benefits to the economy, you really have guzzled the kook-aid.🤣

[Igor]

Removal of any of the Snake river dams would have massive benefits to the environment and the economy.  It will never happen in our lifetime though. Lots of money is being spent by dam huggers to scare people in to getting the word out and protect the status quo.
We can’t even get the gillnets out, dams are just a pipe dream.

Benefits to the economy, you really have guzzled the kook-aid.🤣

[Skillet]

****Trout. Mushy ass trout.

Objectively not correct.  If you really believe this, you're asking not to be taken seriously.  You don't have another HuntWa handle and an axe to grind over certain import trucks, do you?

I absolutely know they are “salmon.”

I have no axe to grind on the salmon. It’s the fact that there’s a consideration to take these dams out, and deal with the implications.

How about we deal with the predators first and see where that gets us.

Let’s kill some seals, terns, cormorants, gulls.

Let’s take some gill nets out of the water.

That’s a cheap and less crazy approach.

Then why did you make a deliberate point to state they were not salmon?  It is a rhetorical question, of course, but one that needs asking since that is the hill you chose to defend on the battle map.  When somebody goes out of their way to make hyperbolic statements like that, it signals major weakness in their base argument - or fear of losing the argument on its merits.

Your actual proposed solutions are great, but may not be enough as stand-alone efforts in the time frame you propose.  I support them 100% as a part of a bigger effort to "get more fish back on the gravel."

Of course, I have a vested interest in seeing more salmon in the ocean, so that I may make money catching and selling them.  However, I won't support removing the lower Snake River dams at any cost - if that were to actually happen, I believe it would need to be fully justified in both economic and social benefit terms.  That is extraordinarily difficult to achieve, as the economists generally "know the price of everything, but the value of nothing."  An economic impact statement saying that the wild salmon population increase justifies the loss of lower Snake River irrigation and commerce would be pretty hard to take for the family farms and people of Lewiston/Clarkston.  I'm certain that they wouldn't say "We lost our livliehood, but it's OK since Skillet and the rest of the fleet in Alaska gets to catch another 50 kings each in a few years."

Don't get me wrong - I want those extra 50 kings.  In a good price year, that's about $5K more to the bottom line with virtually no more expense or time expended. But I don't want it if it means wrecking another family's livelihood. It's a double-edged sword, though -  there could be a time where my not getting those extra kings means my livelihood is wrecked just so Johnny Plowboy doesn't have to switch to Busch Lite from Keystone Light for his winter shenanigans... I have many ideas about increasing fish in the ocean that aren't championed by the vested "wild fish" interests - but I've yet to see a wild king taste different than a hatchery king, or get paid more for wild vs. hatchery. 

The point I'm making is that there are a lot of factors involved, from a lot of different perspectives.  Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they're evil, or seeking to destroy your way of life, or even wrong - they are just placing a higher value on a different outcome than you are.  There's nothing wrong with that - self interest is what our country was created for, and the rationale that our free-market, capitalistic economy is built on.  So I encourage everybody - on both sides of this, and any other politically charged issue - to stop with the dehumanization and/or name calling of those that disagree with you and just listen to what they have to say.  You might be surprised to learn that they just don't know the facts until they are presented to them - like Jeffro took the time to present to us here.  Some folks just won't listen to you, of course.  But don't be that guy that won't listen - you might learn something, and you might actually change your mind on a point or two.  I certainly don't believe everything I believed as a teenager, or as a 30 year old, or even last year. Being human means learning, growing, adapting. It's the process we all go through - unless you're the weird 20 year old that is still nursing from mama's teat. 

There's a whole 'nother thread for you, though... 

[Timberstalker]

Skillet:

You’re the salmon master. Don’t get offended that I called them trout.

I have about as much worry in my argument as I do thinking I’ll draw an OIL in Washington.

It just pisses me off to see the main stream news push for the removal of these dams.

Back to the Busch Light for me. Have a great night.

[Skillet]

Skillet:

You’re the salmon master. Don’t get offended that I called them trout.

I have about as much worry in my argument as I do thinking I’ll draw an OIL in Washington.

It just pisses me off to see the main stream news push for the removal of these dams.

Back to the Busch Light for me. Have a great night.

Take a lot more than that to offend me, just making the observation.  It's all good, I know what you mean about media bias on this issue.  It's bad.  Cuts all ways tho - to hear some outlets tell it, every king salmon I catch up here kills a precious Orca in the San Juans... Nobody is safe from Southern Resident Killer Whale political efforts.

And to be clear, I am not really a salmon master.  I just get to kill them for money!  Even being a journeyman, it's a good life

[Timberstalker]