Trappers be aware

[KFhunter]

Well said LDennis24

As in all things, balanced management

Just like days past management being skewed heavily to benefit people, crops and livestock isn't the answer, vs today management is heading towards being heavily skewed away from people, crops and livestock usage. 

We need a middle, not extremes.

[idaho guy]

 I’m glad at least there was a court date and a fine. This is a really discouraging thread in ways. The trapper was clearly harassed and his traps intentionally messed with. Idaho that’s up to 1500 fine and 6 months in jail. Not sure what the bunny huggers would have actually received if this occurred in Idaho. The lack of support for the trapper is what I find disappointing in this case. He was LEGAL and the bunny huggers actions were ILLEGAL. Many jumped on the trapper for not moving his traps or for even trapping on public land. Cowering to antis will accomplish nothing and just embolden them to take away more of our lifestyle. I totally agree with portraying hunting and trapping in a positive way to the uneducated. Locally, someone put out a bobcat cubby with a conibear on 1 section of state surrounded by homes a few years ago.  Of course he killed a dog and created a black eye for local trappers. That situation was idiotic and I 100 percent blamed the trapper. He could have still trapped bobcat on that tiny piece of state with a set that couldn’t have killed any dogs. But it’s a place that did not need to be trapped with a lethal trap since every homeowner seems to walk their dogs there daily. I understand the need to be responsible trappers and get pissed when someone does an idiotic set. This trapper was legally trapping with cage traps. Worse thing that can happen is he offends a bunny hugger! sounds like a win win lol. He certainly wasn’t going to kill any pets. Cowering down to these people will just embolden them to take more away from you. Responsible trapping yes. Hiding in the shadows because someone doesn’t like trapping NO WAY. I hope your state trapping organization can help push this into civil court or something. These bunny huggers need a lesson which would be from real consequences. They would be the first ones preaching tolerance if it was some transgender issue etc. But when it comes to the tradition of trapping no tolerance. It’s all B.S and at some point you have to legally punch back. You have to be tolerant of their viewpoint but they don’t have to be tolerant of what others think and do? Punch back and stick together 👍 merry Christmas!

[timberfaller]

Since the debate has gone to beavers, a very famous scientist, Jacque Cousteau and his son did a documentary on a place taken over by beavers sometime back in the 70's.  The did a lengthy study on them, the conclusion was, leave beavers unmanaged and they literally will eat themselves out of house and home and kill each other.  The place will look like a dead forest with a pond of water and no life in it.  They even reported towards the end of the ponds life cycle, the remaining beavers became cannibals of their own kind.   Mother nature is the most cruel of letting life run its cycle!

Management has always been the answer, not feeling/emotions!!

[Humptulips]

Things really went OT during the day I was gone. I guess I will continue the trend.
The issues as I see it with beaver. Fur trappers or as they are calling us "recreational trappers" took 716 beaver last year. During the fur boom of the 70s and 80s we were trapping a high of near 10,000 beaver in a year. The average year had to be around 6000 so one might ask how does that effect beaver populations? It doesn't, 6000 was sustainable but 700 is not?
At that comment period on seasons, 3 years ago it seemed evident that the beaver relocators were being very unsuccessful and they tried to use trappers as their scapegoat. I mean the beaver they turned loose are gone so it must be those damn trappers. They get their relocation beaver from complaints and here are the numbers. In 4 years, they did 44 beaver introductions. Only 16 were a success. Last year there were about 1100 problem beaver removed in the State, so about 4400 problem beaver as opposed to 44 relocation permits. Does anyone think they can find places for 4400 beaver and if they do who foots the bill for moving them. I know, they plan on convincing people with complaints to live with the beaver. At the cost to remove problem beaver they already have to think they need the beaver gone pretty badly.
The whole thing looks like a grift to me. One tribe received a $240,000 grant for four beaver relocation projects. Pretty good work if you can get it but I doubt there is money floating around to finance moving the other 4000+ beavers.

That is if they even could find places for them. Beavers have been filling all available habitat since at least 62 when the Statewide beaver season was reinstated. If there is a suitable place for beaver in this State they are already there. Suitable also means a place where they can escape from predators. I have no doubt cougar are the number 1 killer of beaver now. I know on my line which I have trapped since the late 60s 90% of the beaver are gone and it all happened after 2000 when cougar populations were climbing, and trapper harvest had bottomed to a 40 year low. (I didn't trap a beaver in WA for 6 years at that time and no one else trapped that area either.) Just look where the beaver are harvested now. In the most populated counties where the sheer numbers of people keep the cougar at bay.
As trappers we know they make great habitat and would love to see more to benefit other furbearers but it does little good to drop them in a place they are doomed to be cougar poop.
If they would do something about cougar numbers, the beaver population would explode.

Hehehe, practicing for my next meeting in January, I guess.

[lewy]

Keep up the good fight Bruce, it must be frustrating dealing with people so ignorant! Not to mention that they are pushing an agenda and ignoring the facts!

[LDennis24]

Yeah I brought up the beaver scenario because it was easy to discuss how beavers will literally destroy their little riparian habitat faster than they can plant it. They have no idea. So why not have trapping as a way to regulate the population growth and limit beaver conflicts? They will be the first ones to request a relocation when a beaver comes into their yard and starts mowing down the landscaping too. It's complete ignorance.

[Elkaholic daWg]

Since the debate has gone to beavers, a very famous scientist, Jacque Cousteau and his son did a documentary on a place taken over by beavers sometime back in the 70's.  The did a lengthy study on them, the conclusion was, leave beavers unmanaged and they literally will eat themselves out of house and home and kill each other.  The place will look like a dead forest with a pond of water and no life in it.  They even reported towards the end of the ponds life cycle, the remaining beavers became cannibals of their own kind.   Mother nature is the most cruel of letting life run its cycle!

Management has always been the answer, not feeling/emotions!!

See a lot of that on the touchy/feely side. Have them on my property Great Points idaho guy!

[Special T]

Ive had some pretty mixed feelings following this discussion. I have taken something different away from it that most (I assume). A general trend from the WDFW seems to be changing its mission and land use to mirror the Wa Parks department. Dog walkers, mountain bikers, hikers and cross country skiers should take precedence over Department land purchased with sportsmen dollars for conservation and hunting purposes. While a lot of discussion on here has been made about the Prudence of this trappers choice of location, we should list a series of other restrictions and infringements that are talking place. Some of them might restrict opportunities from sportsmen because of the need to use more discretion.

1 Plenty of conflict has occurred at the Stillwater unit in the Snoqualmie valley over dog walkers interrupting and unleashed dogs running the hunting fields during the season.
2 No shooting ordnances instituted in Thurston county (and elsewhere) 300 yards, 500 yards in Kitsap county to prevent duck hunters from hunting. Safety is stated but really its noise. They tried to completely ban Duck hunting in Drayton Harbor near Blaine but failed
3 The legal private land hunting that took place on the Johnson's farm adjacent to Hwy20 for elk in Skagit county. We no longer have an open archery season on the valley floor as a result.

[Elkaholic daWg]

I'm curious how does this conversation move forward without using the effected parties names?

I know a guy, who knows a guy who's cousin's cousin knows a guy?

When I posted this, I will say once again that I had talked with the owner of the forum and assured him the effected parties were not posting thru my screen name. Once again, he agreed that this was information that was needed to let the trapping parties know.

People suggested that he move his line. If you are hunting an area and seeing sign do you move to pike's market to hunt? If you have people who are offended by your choice of pursuits?


I will forward to any mod the videos of the person who would post this in the thread.

You don't see the stuff that was posted and deleted, I do.

The case itself is important to get out, it has.  She got a slap on the wrist, Jingles got a perma-ban again for things he posted.  He made a promise to Dale to get back on the forum after his first perma-ban,  he didn't keep his word and that's that. I could drag all that out for the internet jury, but we keep mod things in-house and I have no desire to dig up skeletons.

The guys telling him to move his line are WSTA members and prominent trappers who are doing a lot of work for trappers, these are the guys we should all be listening too. 

I too don't think its a coincidence that trapping will be high on the comissions agenda after this case, it got on their radar, one of their own got pinched.

As for the bigoted terms it's against forum rules, pretty simple.  Everyone agreed to those rules when they signed on to HW. 

Leave off the bigoted terms, discuss the case, its simple 

 Where I do not support bigotry in any form. WE should remember if we play the game on their terms WE will lose. Whereas we agree to keep it a "family" discussion if you keep it up there will eventually be no "Family" to discuss since once again 'They" won. They have already done a great job of dividing us here and if you don't see it   May need an "adults only" section Thanks Ridgeratt!

[KFhunter]

If we did a HW poll I bet it would land 50/50

Do it, it's legal, screw them!

Don't do it, it gives the anti's ammunition and its in bad taste


There's no win here, I see both sides, I agree with pionts made on both sides. 

Honestly Elkaholic Dawg, it might land heavily on the "Don't do it!" side, I feel like the "Do it!"  side is.... more vocal 

[Elkaholic daWg]

 As for polls....the only one that will count is when the commies file their initiatives against us all. Trappers, Hunters. ORVers. This isn't' the only forum we've shared..  Do we need a BCR?

[KFhunter]

BCR died, jus sayin 

[Elkaholic daWg]

BCR died, jus sayin 

SW..Still there!

[jackelope]

If we did a HW poll I bet it would land 50/50

Do it, it's legal, screw them!

Don't do it, it gives the anti's ammunition and its in bad taste


There's no win here, I see both sides, I agree with pionts made on both sides. 

Honestly Elkaholic Dawg, it might land heavily on the "Don't do it!" side, I feel like the "Do it!"  side is.... more vocal 

I've personally never been the guy that likes to ruffle feathers in these types of situations. I would definitely be leaning to the "don't do it" side but I totally see the "do it because we can" side also. Just not the guy to cause conflict in situations like this. There is a fine line in this scenario.

[jackelope]

Ive had some pretty mixed feelings following this discussion. I have taken something different away from it that most (I assume). A general trend from the WDFW seems to be changing its mission and land use to mirror the Wa Parks department. Dog walkers, mountain bikers, hikers and cross country skiers should take precedence over Department land purchased with sportsmen dollars for conservation and hunting purposes. While a lot of discussion on here has been made about the Prudence of this trappers choice of location, we should list a series of other restrictions and infringements that are talking place. Some of them might restrict opportunities from sportsmen because of the need to use more discretion.

1 Plenty of conflict has occurred at the Stillwater unit in the Snoqualmie valley over dog walkers interrupting and unleashed dogs running the hunting fields during the season.
2 No shooting ordnances instituted in Thurston county (and elsewhere) 300 yards, 500 yards in Kitsap county to prevent duck hunters from hunting. Safety is stated but really its noise. They tried to completely ban Duck hunting in Drayton Harbor near Blaine but failed
3 The legal private land hunting that took place on the Johnson's farm adjacent to Hwy20 for elk in Skagit county. We no longer have an open archery season on the valley floor as a result.

Stillwater is an interesting one. There's basically a walking/bike trail running right down the entire border of the property. Those things don't happen as much at Cherry Valley or Crescent Lake and they're just a few  miles away. Same type of areas. Just no walking trail right alongside them.
CV did have the dog in the conibear incident a few years ago.