It’s a beautiful thing…

[2MANY]

I have a slow walking mountain horse that I occasionally have to pedal.
No bike.

[guardian]

Whats the problem everyone seems to have with the pedal assist bikes? My wife and i are in our senior years now and would like to just ride on the closed roads. Why would anyone want to give up recreation opportunities on pubic land that we all pay taxes on. I dont get it. I agree with bbarnes who are these people and why not have a honest conversation about this. Seems like discrimination against persons with disabilities that just want to go for a ride in the woods.

[fireweed]

Don't "official" signs need some type of RCW, WAC, etc reference?  I've known the USFS and wdfw to subvert the open public process on rules by falling back to the rules that says you have to obey signs.  WDFW does it all the time for camping: state law says camping is ok on WDFW land, but there is a rule you must follow "signs" so employees just go around with a staple gun and a stack of "don't do this' signs.  Could be the issue here.

[CP]

The Forest Service defines a "motor vehicle"  as:

Any vehicle which is self-propelled, other than:

(1) A vehicle operated on rails; and

(2) Any wheelchair or mobility device, including one that is battery-powered, that is designed solely for use by a mobility-impaired person for locomotion, and that is suitable for use in an indoor pedestrian area.

ref 36 CFR § 212.1

So, we have different definitions and laws for Federal, State, County, some cities ...   SNAFU -

[Platensek-po]

Whats the problem everyone seems to have with the pedal assist bikes? My wife and i are in our senior years now and would like to just ride on the closed roads. Why would anyone want to give up recreation opportunities on pubic land that we all pay taxes on. I dont get it. I agree with bbarnes who are these people and why not have a honest conversation about this. Seems like discrimination against persons with disabilities that just want to go for a ride in the woods.

What discrimination are you talking about? Do you have a disability that means you have to have a mobility scooter? If not then no discrimination. There are trails and roads where you can take motorized vehicles and some where you can’t. I don’t understand what’s so hard to understand about this?? Should every public land allow motorcycles and quads everywhere? Should we allow electric bikes everywhere? I don’t think so. You have the same right to access those public lands as anyone else. Just not with a motorized vehicle also like everyone else. These discussions are ridiculous. Just cause you paid a small fortune for an electric bike doesn’t mean you should get to take it everywhere.

[CP]

Similar to the WATV *censored* storm.  No WATVs on forest service roads!!

[bbarnes]

I read the law in the state of Washington it says anything under 750 watch there’s a class 12 or three bicycle is not considered motorized I also read the law about disable to access on state lands in the state of Washington that was written by Annette Cleveland the senator people need to inform themselves about what the law says if we’re going to go back to primitive everybody should go get a piece of wouldn’t go back to their primitive archery now we’ve got guns that shoot over 1000 yards optics that look for miles cell phone game game cameras artificial sense tree stands the list goes on and on and on what I see as other people trying to keep other people out of the woods so they have the advantage and nobody else can harvest the wildlife it’s called selfishness there’s a lot of older people that just like going out and enjoying the forest nothings hurting the gravel roads they’re designed for log trucks and logging equipment ladder people on the side are starting to sound like the people that are running this country a bunch of crybabies

[Platensek-po]

I read the law in the state of Washington it says anything under 750 watch there’s a class 12 or three bicycle is not considered motorized I also read the law about disable to access on state lands in the state of Washington that was written by Annette Cleveland the senator people need to inform themselves about what the law says if we’re going to go back to primitive everybody should go get a piece of wouldn’t go back to their primitive archery now we’ve got guns that shoot over 1000 yards optics that look for miles cell phone game game cameras artificial sense tree stands the list goes on and on and on what I see as other people trying to keep other people out of the woods so they have the advantage and nobody else can harvest the wildlife it’s called selfishness there’s a lot of older people that just like going out and enjoying the forest nothings hurting the gravel roads they’re designed for log trucks and logging equipment ladder people on the side are starting to sound like the people that are running this country a bunch of crybabies

Who is trying to keep you out of the woods?? Can you only access the woods on a ebike??? There are places designated for motorized vehicles and places designated non motorized. I don’t see what the problem is with that? You sound like a crybaby asking to allow your motorized vehicle in lands that don’t allow motorized access. Why should evoked be given special treatment? Why do you need special access?? I agree that technology is advancing. It’s apparently advancing so much that a motor isn’t considered a motor anymore.

[guardian]

I'm not sure how old some of these folks are that oppose pedal assist bikes, but it has nothing to do with the cost of the bikes. It has everything to do with still be able to get out enjoying the outdoors. We put our time in hiking miles riding horses riding peddle bikes behind closed gates for years probably longer than some of these folks on here have been alive. We're not young guns anymore. Thats one of the problems with society now days. We need to look out for each other, stay united instead of this selfishness. It seems there's no compromise anymore. Really a sad deal.

[HighGrouseHunt]

I tend to agree that it's about selfishness, but in the other direction. There have been places that people could get away from motorized travel for a very long time, and folks had the opportunity to put in the miles on foot / horseback etc that you mentioned without feeling like they were competing against someone with a motor. The problem now, is that the very people who spent their entire hunting career putting in those miles on foot are out here saying "the motor on my bike actually isn't a motor because of xxx". Its like they wanted to be able to access these non-motorized areas when they were actually non-motorized, but now that they are older they still want to access them... just with a motor. To me that is having your cake and eating it too.

Just to be clear, where I live, motorized vehicles are allowed pretty much everywhere, and I would take an E-bike over an ATV or Dirt bike buzzing up one of those roads any day of the week. Have at it.  But when I hump miles into clearly designated non-motorized area to get away from the crowds and some dude comes gliding up on his E-bike; it chaps my a**.

I have also yet to see one of these "old timers" way in there. It is usually some completely healthy guy who just knows that if he uses an E-bike, he will have an advantage over all of the suckers who thought a motor still counted as a motor. 

[Platensek-po]

I'm not sure how old some of these folks are that oppose pedal assist bikes, but it has nothing to do with the cost of the bikes. It has everything to do with still be able to get out enjoying the outdoors. We put our time in hiking miles riding horses riding peddle bikes behind closed gates for years probably longer than some of these folks on here have been alive. We're not young guns anymore. Thats one of the problems with society now days. We need to look out for each other, stay united instead of this selfishness. It seems there's no compromise anymore. Really a sad deal.

Because there are already areas that Allow you motorized access. Why do you need a motor to access non motorized areas?? I don’t get it. I agree that an electric motor is better than a atv but it still has a motor. No selfishness here I’m happy to share with whoever. I just don’t see why we should make special exceptions for an electric motor over a gas one. Non-motorized seems very explanatory. Why should your motorized vehicle be allowed in a non motorized area?

[guardian]

High grouse agreed been there many times. Walked in miles to have dirt bikes zip on by me. But like you said you dont see any old timers like us ripping by you. So with that being said would you agree with maybe having a little compromise for folks of older age to access these areas with a pedal assist bike? Yes i agree we go to the woods and ride these areas as well as you to get away from people noise phones. 

[Platensek-po]

High grouse agreed been there many times. Walked in miles to have dirt bikes zip on by me. But like you said you dont see any old timers like us ripping by you. So with that being said would you agree with maybe having a little compromise for folks of older age to access these areas with a pedal assist bike? Yes i agree we go to the woods and ride these areas as well as you to get away from people noise phones.

I guess my question would be why not just a pedal bike then? Why does it have to have a motor to assist? If you can pedal then pedal. This whole topic feels like people asking for special exceptions to a very clear rule. There are places in the woods you can take your bike right?

[HighGrouseHunt]

Gaurdian, I completely understand where you are coming from, and  I might consider a compromise like that if I thought it would actually work. Instead, I envision some bloated inefficient bureaucracy that is in charge of deciding if you are indeed "old enough" to get your E-bike permit. Whenever someone was denied, there would inevitably be accusations of discrimination and threats of litigation etc. If it ended up being some sort of doctors note sort of situation, then I can easily imagine the doctors out there writing notes to everyone who asks (I had a roommate in college who miraculously ended up with a medical marijiuna prescription signed by a real doctor too). 

I might be a simpleton, but I tend to lean toward the simplest, most obvious, and least loop-holey way to address these issues. Does it have a motor that provides any sort of assistance? It does? Great! Then its motorized. You get access to all of the motorized areas, and you can still access those non-motorized areas too. You just have to leave the bike at the boundary. 

I don't mean to sound like I don't care that people can't get back as far as they use to. I honestly just wonder why the younger generation shouldn't be afforded the same opportunities as those old timers from the Pre E-bike era to put some distance between themselves and the crowds. (The population of Washington is larger now than it ever was, so those crowds are even bigger than they used to be).

I am fully aware of the benefits of getting deep into places with no-motorized access. I think most E-bike proponents on here are too, less pressured game more solitude etc. But I worry that cracking the door will quickly erode those benefits as it turns into an arms race. Soon everyone will have an E-bike to access those non-motorized Shangri-las, and they won't be so special anymore.

It seems like there is this continual march forward that no-one notices. In the 70s and 80s it seems like not that many people had ATVs or Snowmobiles, and most hunting was done on foot. Hunters eventually started incorporating those motorized vehicles into their hunts so they could get farther from the others. Then came trail cameras, laser range finders, cell-cameras, drones, night-vision scopes, OnX, E-bikes. All of these things putting more pressure on the same landscape that used to just have a handful of boot hunters out there tromping around with their 30-06 and 3-9 leupold scope. Of course its getting harder to get away, we keep making it easier for everyone else.

[Dysfunctional Vet]

Do these e bikes never break? I’d be concerned about being old or physically limited to the point you can’t walk into an area. Then cruise back behind a gate for miles just to have my e bike take dump. Then what? Sounds sketchy