STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS

[boneaddict]

As much as I agree with you with the oh so many factors…..

This is what I am spelling out.

If you have a corral with a bull and 2 cows in it.    You kill one of the cows, what does that do to next years production.

Now if your last cow dies of a disease, lightning strike,  or a coyote eats it’s calf, where are you on production.   

If you have a bull and 10 cows, eating one, not such a big deal

If you have a pen with a bull and 15 cows, you better eat one so they don’t starve or get diseased.   

What I am hearing from some is that we are entitled to eat that cow as it’s perfectly legal to do so.  the ranch is being run by some dimwit back in Olympia, who probably has never set foot on a farm, but is advising that yes, that last cow looks tasty. Let’s eat her!   

I’m afraid so buckfvr

[LongBomb]

  I think so many ppl on here missed the point. If you think the population is where it should be then do it. Dont complain theres no deer and shoot a doe.

[KFhunter]

As much as I agree with you with the oh so many factors…..

This is what I am spelling out.

If you have a corral with a bull and 2 cows in it.    You kill one of the cows, what does that do to next years production.

Now if your last cow dies of a disease, lightning strike,  or a coyote eats it’s calf, where are you on production.   

If you have a bull and 10 cows, eating one, not such a big deal

If you have a pen with a bull and 15 cows, you better eat one so they don’t starve or get diseased.   

What I am hearing from some is that we are entitled to eat that cow as it’s perfectly legal to do so.  the ranch is being run by some dimwit back in Olympia, who probably has never set foot on a farm, but is advising that yes, that last cow looks tasty. Let’s eat her!   

I’m afraid so buckfvr

Or 60 does, which is what I used to see in my hayfield.

I've seen up to 100

Now about 5, and two small bucks. 

When it was 60+ ya some doe culling would have been good, but now?  Not so much.....

[jrebel]

To be so egotistical to think I am talking about him specifically is laughable......well unless he has a guilty conscious.  One that sits so high on the pedestal to think his way of hunting is the only way to hunt and then partaking in actions that lesson the chance for others to partake in legal hunting is wrong.  Again....prove me wrong.

Let’s see, I went from being a terrorist to egotistical to now being high on a pedestal.  And no I don’t have a guilty conscious, nor do I have the time or energy to even debate such dribble.  You started strong with your points about predators but somehow went down a rabbit hole enough I’m not even going to read the big post.   I’m pretty much a straight shooter so i,’m not very good at recognizing word games, insinuations etc.   

For us simple minded folk you could say “I think it’s wrong to buy tags just to rip them up.” If that’s your point.   

Meanwhile look for the thread “From high on my pedestal”.  I’ll post in a bit of a 180 class wa buck from this mornings light.

Edit….. probably 170

Let me be more clear then so you get my point. 

1. You started this rant..."STOP KILLING BABY MAKERS". 

2. You by your own omission state you put in for and by tag for the sole purpose of destroying them....and have been doing it for years.  (this takes away opportunity from other and it is a "legal" opportunity."
 
3. You state you are not ripping any one person....but otherwise just ranting on your own post, which in turn would suggest you are ranting about all who shoot does.
 
4. You then post (I'll just cut and paste this one): These are your own words
I am the righteous one I guess.
I hunt with a longbow, when I do hunt, since I chose not to even kill a buck for the last few years, but I figure that’s asking a lot for most hunters, so I will stick with not shooting does.
I do hike in 10 to 14 miles on average
I don’t own a cell phone
I don’t bait
I don’t own a trail camera.

Oh crap, I do own and use binos.   I guess I have some improving to do.

There are alot of things contributing. My point here. Stop shooting the baby makers.

Sounds like a pedestal to me......if you don't hunt the way I do......your a baby killer or at a minimum contributing to the declining deer numbers

5.  Now you say that I explicitly called you a terrorist....which is 100% false.  I get it, in this day in age, when you don't agree with a viewpoint of another, you throw our inflammatory accusations to again peg yourself higher on the pedestal.  You clearly are a more righteous hunter than anyone I have ever hunted with......   I simply made a correlation of what the antis are doing and what you and a couple others have posted you have and / or continue to do. 

6.  Based on number 4 above, I do believe your ego (as it pertains to hunting and your righteousness beliefs on how hunters should hunt) is insulting.  Take that for what it is, you started this mess.  I don't believe anyone that uses legal means to harvest does, bucks, trophies, etc.....is any lesser of a hunter than I am.  I celebrate their success regardless of whether or not I share their hunting traditions or methods. 


Funny how you can rant and feel the way you feel, but the minute it meets opposition.....you discredit anyone else's statements or arguments. 

If you re-read my initial post, I believe what you say has some merit.  I just don't feel it is as black and white as you want it to be. 

I'll bow out at this point....

[Skyvalhunter]

I agree with Doug on this one. Just because you can shoot a doe or buy a second deer tag(doe) that doesn't make it right. If shooting a mature doe with a yearling chances are that yearling won't make it thru the next winter. It's time to start thinking about the deer population in places where the population is hurting. All the time I hear about hunters saying all I saw the whole time was 2 does the whole hunt. Seeing only that many does is pathetic. Just because you can shoot a does doesn't mean you should or it's right.

[Bowhunter3]

It’s tough to argue when op can’t read and analyze anything that’s said. If it doesn’t work for her
cause, then she laughs. I think I saw it said earlier how many youngsters watch this forum. Imagine all the up and comers turned off cause the CENSORED FOR YOU GUYS can’t understand deer populations in different parts of the state. Gonna be a good doe harvest coming up

[Bowhunter3]

I agree with Doug on this one. Just because you can shoot a doe or buy a second deer tag(doe) that doesn't make it right. If shooting a mature doe with a yearling chances are that yearling won't make it thru the next winter. It's time to start thinking about the deer population in places where the population is hurting. All the time I hear about hunters saying all I saw the whole time was 2 does the whole hunt. Seeing only that many does is pathetic. Just because you can shoot a does doesn't mean you should or it's right.

Bear/yote/cougar/ wolf Count so far? Any state?

[Bowhunter3]

I agree with Doug on this one. Just because you can shoot a doe or buy a second deer tag(doe) that doesn't make it right. If shooting a mature doe with a yearling chances are that yearling won't make it thru the next winter. It's time to start thinking about the deer population in places where the population is hurting. All the time I hear about hunters saying all I saw the whole time was 2 does the whole hunt. Seeing only that many does is pathetic. Just because you can shoot a does doesn't mean you should or it's right.

Methow resident correct?

[Skyvalhunter]

Property on both sides of the state.

[Bowhunter3]

Property on both sides of the state.

You could say no. A lot  of us have property but I’m a resident of where I live. And just like you, I don’t live there.

[KFhunter]

Folks still seem focused on symptoms instead of root causes.  Lower than desirable deer abundance is a symptom...and hunters killing does is not the root cause.  I get it...some would prefer to not have any hunters harvest does even if it is legal...but in the end that does not in any meaningful way address the root causes of low deer numbers in the state.

Addressing winter range/habitat and social tolerance are root causes of lower game abundance - as are predators.  Rather than alienate legal hunters with a short term band-aid approach...I'd suggest beating down the door of commercial ag groups, producers, and developers...thats where the hell raising needs to happen...and of course the wdfw commission when it comes to predators

Habitat is not an issue in many areas of herd decline, quite contrary.  The big fires a few years back has had excellent regrowth and logging has been greatly expanded on national forests cutting out big swaths of land not so favorable to ungulates, but now providing much more winter forage and varied habitat. 

We've had a decade plus of mild winters with very little winter kill, but that has been tempered with esd blue tongue losses mostly at lower elevations.   

These challenges are fairly static, herds ebb and wane, and spring back.

Except now due to depredation and predator loads the population explosions that could occur, do not. 
Everything is there for a population explosion, if predators were better controlled. 

[Skyvalhunter]

I am not saying shooting of doe's is the only reason but it doesn't help the population.

[Bowhunter3]

I agree with Doug on this one. Just because you can shoot a doe or buy a second deer tag(doe) that doesn't make it right. If shooting a mature doe with a yearling chances are that yearling won't make it thru the next winter. It's time to start thinking about the deer population in places where the population is hurting. All the time I hear about hunters saying all I saw the whole time was 2 does the whole hunt. Seeing only that many does is pathetic. Just because you can shoot a does doesn't mean you should or it's right.

Bear/yote/cougar/ wolf Count so far? Any state?

Still waiting for this one. Quick to answer my latter question though

[idahohuntr]

As much as I agree with you with the oh so many factors…..

This is what I am spelling out.

If you have a corral with a bull and 2 cows in it.    You kill one of the cows, what does that do to next years production.

Now if your last cow dies of a disease, lightning strike,  or a coyote eats it’s calf, where are you on production.   

If you have a bull and 10 cows, eating one, not such a big deal

If you have a pen with a bull and 15 cows, you better eat one so they don’t starve or get diseased.   

What I am hearing from some is that we are entitled to eat that cow as it’s perfectly legal to do so.  the ranch is being run by some dimwit back in Olympia, who probably has never set foot on a farm, but is advising that yes, that last cow looks tasty. Let’s eat her!   

I’m afraid so buckfvr

Your example is largely predicated on the notion that antlerless hunter harvest is a major factor in how many there are in the 'pen'.  I assure you - the ~2,600 does harvested (in all GMU's across the entire state) by hunters has no meaningful impact on the lower than desirable (for hunters) deer abundance across much of the state.

I'm all for your pen/cow/bull example...but getting worked up over the least significant factor affecting how many are in your 'pen' is not effective management.

That said - every little tiny fraction can help...but I think its more useful to target the bigger things that are less likely to alienate other hunters.

[KFhunter]

It’s tough to argue when op can’t read and analyze anything that’s said. If it doesn’t work for her
cause, then she laughs. I think I saw it said earlier how many youngsters watch this forum. Imagine all the up and comers turned off cause the CENSORED FOR YOU GUYS can’t understand deer populations in different parts of the state. Gonna be a good doe harvest coming up

Bone can handle his own discussion and I wouldn't intervene in that, that said, I won't tolerate name calling, belittling or intentionally trolling this discussion.