Preference points

[vandeman17]

All I can say is be careful what you wish for. When we ask for our seasons to be shortened, when we ask for our system to go to controlled tags only where they get to decide what the quota is (see current quality elk tag #'s), when we ask for our opportunities to be lessened because we're willing to fall on the sword for the thing we love, and then it has no effect because they still refuse to manage our resource in a responsible manner then what?

In a normally functioning western hunting state all of these things would be a no-brainer. In WA, I'm not so sure anymore. The ability to go buy your license at the store and have a deer camp with your family and friends every year just might be the last good thing about this state. When we voluntarily give that up only to realize it didn't make a bit of difference and now we've gone full-on California style, it may be too late to get any of it back...  

I agree that I don't like the idea of going to draw only except for MAYBE in a few units that could really benefit from a few years of minimal harvest. I still like the idea of getting rid of points and also limiting a person to applying for either deer/elk or OIL each year.

[Bob33]

I’ve seen two rather significant changes in my lifetime that have influenced this. The first is a change in hunter expectations. Growing up we were very happy to kill any deer or elk. “Cow” and “Doe” tags were gifts that we cherished and valued. I’m sure it happened but I don’t recall anyone talking about mule deer inches or the length of a G-4.  Now it seems that a greater number of hunters are interested in trophy sized animals rather than simply a hunt experience and meat.

The second change has been mentioned frequently and that’s the internet, and especially the number of organizations like Huntin’ Fool that have benefitted from hunter demand for trophy animals and facilitated application processes in multiple states.

Another change in Washington has been the loss of upland bird and small game hunting opportunities. We hunted a lot of pheasants and chukar growing up; those opportunities are greatly diminished now. I can recall hunting rabbits (hares) on San Juan island as a youth; it was great fun and memorable. Band tailed pigeons are another specie we hunted as a youth that is no longer really viable. Big game has supplanted many of those opportunities which has increased hunter demand for permits.

Add in predation, reduced public land opportunities, and increased restrictions and fees for private land access and we have a tough road ahead.

[pickardjw]

As far as going full permit only and dropping the regular season, keep that on the east side please, we are fine on the west.

I'm not sure what. East side season your referring too.
You don't want my two cents.
Things that need to go!
Multiseason tags gone statewide.
All doe/ cow tags-OTC/permit gone statewide.
Including moose cow tags.
Choose which side of state you hunt deer.
GMU with the lowest harvest rates for deer/elk, permit hunt only/ or APR applied.
1 black bear can only be harvested per year,East side of the mountains.

Maybe I'll write our "NEW" Commission and ask for these.
Since your so worried about the West.
What's the worst they could say is no.
Our new Commission is all about polical view,and "conservation".
What ever that definition of conservation is today.
Oh ya my list is a lot longer of things to ask for.
That just the tip of the berg.

Why only one black bear east of the cascades?

[Mfowl]

  I was wondering this as well. Don't we want to knock back the population on fawn killers?

[hunter399]

As far as going full permit only and dropping the regular season, keep that on the east side please, we are fine on the west.

I'm not sure what. East side season your referring too.
You don't want my two cents.
Things that need to go!
Multiseason tags gone statewide.
All doe/ cow tags-OTC/permit gone statewide.
Including moose cow tags.
Choose which side of state you hunt deer.
GMU with the lowest harvest rates for deer/elk, permit hunt only/ or APR applied.
1 black bear can only be harvested per year,East side of the mountains.

Maybe I'll write our "NEW" Commission and ask for these.
Since your so worried about the West.
What's the worst they could say is no.
Our new Commission is all about polical view,and "conservation".
What ever that definition of conservation is today.
Oh ya my list is a lot longer of things to ask for.
That just the tip of the berg.

Why only one black bear east of the cascades?

Oh you know just cause it's the East side.
Don't judge me now,I did buy a second tag myself last year.
Its just that's not my side of the state mentality.

[andrew_in_idaho]

You can't increase everyone's odds by changing the application system only.  It's a zero sum game there, if my odds go up someone's odds have to go down.

ID odds are better because they have more tags, or more specifically, less people applying for a given tag than WA.

Yes you can. In Idaho you must choose either sheep or goat or moose or deer, elk and antelope. On top of that decision you really only have 1 choice. So instead of each person applying in 4 ram hunts, 4 goat hunts, 4 bull moose hunts, 4 cow moose hunts, 12 deer hunts and 12 elk hunts you have a person at most applying for 1 deer, 1 elk and 1 antelope hunt. Most people don’t even apply for sheep, goat or moose and I realistically as a resident have better odds of drawing a sheep tag each year than any of the top 10 mule deer or elk hunts and any rifle antelope hunt


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[MtnMuley]

Another change in Washington has been the loss of upland bird and small game hunting opportunities. We hunted a lot of pheasants and chukar growing up; those opportunities are greatly diminished now.

Where has been the loss of these opportunities? Some of the best chukar and small game hunting that I've ever seen here is happening here right now.

[Bob33]

Another change in Washington has been the loss of upland bird and small game hunting opportunities. We hunted a lot of pheasants and chukar growing up; those opportunities are greatly diminished now.

Where has been the loss of these opportunities? Some of the best chukar and small game hunting that I've ever seen here is happening here right now.

That's good to hear. We used to hunt upload birds (primarily pheasants) near Kittitas and also Quincy and usually filled our limits. I haven't seen birds there is many years. Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places.

[MtnMuley]

Another change in Washington has been the loss of upland bird and small game hunting opportunities. We hunted a lot of pheasants and chukar growing up; those opportunities are greatly diminished now.

Where has been the loss of these opportunities? Some of the best chukar and small game hunting that I've ever seen here is happening here right now.

That's good to hear. We used to hunt upload birds (primarily pheasants) near Kittitas and also Quincy and usually filled our limits. I haven't seen birds there is many years. Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places.

I will agree that pheasants are down in most all areas I know. I blame that on habitat loss. Removing lots of old fences in the Palouse country that would grab those tumble weeds for cover.

[time2hunt]

The pheasant hunting in kittitas country went down hill once they closed the States ran bird game farm 20 plus years ago. As for chukar the quilimine is one of the top in the nation when you start researching chukar hunting 


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[Stein]

You can't increase everyone's odds by changing the application system only.  It's a zero sum game there, if my odds go up someone's odds have to go down.

ID odds are better because they have more tags, or more specifically, less people applying for a given tag than WA.

Yes you can. In Idaho you must choose either sheep or goat or moose or deer, elk and antelope. On top of that decision you really only have 1 choice. So instead of each person applying in 4 ram hunts, 4 goat hunts, 4 bull moose hunts, 4 cow moose hunts, 12 deer hunts and 12 elk hunts you have a person at most applying for 1 deer, 1 elk and 1 antelope hunt. Most people don’t even apply for sheep, goat or moose and I realistically as a resident have better odds of drawing a sheep tag each year than any of the top 10 mule deer or elk hunts and any rifle antelope hunt


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You didn't increase their overall odds, you just moved them.  In ID, you have to make the choice as you mentioned, so the odds of drawing are zero for all the other categories since you can't apply.

10 tags, 100 guys, odds are odds no matter how you design the system.  Overall, the odds of drawing a tag are going to be 10%.  If you don't increase tags or decrease guys, you are simply moving odds around.

[buglebrush]

You can't increase everyone's odds by changing the application system only.  It's a zero sum game there, if my odds go up someone's odds have to go down.

ID odds are better because they have more tags, or more specifically, less people applying for a given tag than WA.

Yes you can. In Idaho you must choose either sheep or goat or moose or deer, elk and antelope. On top of that decision you really only have 1 choice. So instead of each person applying in 4 ram hunts, 4 goat hunts, 4 bull moose hunts, 4 cow moose hunts, 12 deer hunts and 12 elk hunts you have a person at most applying for 1 deer, 1 elk and 1 antelope hunt. Most people don’t even apply for sheep, goat or moose and I realistically as a resident have better odds of drawing a sheep tag each year than any of the top 10 mule deer or elk hunts and any rifle antelope hunt


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You didn't increase their overall odds, you just moved them.  In ID, you have to make the choice as you mentioned, so the odds of drawing are zero for all the other categories since you can't apply.

10 tags, 100 guys, odds are odds no matter how you design the system.  Overall, the odds of drawing a tag are going to be 10%.  If you don't increase tags or decrease guys, you are simply moving odds around.

 This is categorically untrue.   Seriously that's not how the math works!    If three guys apply with a 10% chance of drawing,  the odds of one of them drawing isn't 30%.  It's the amount of applications not applicants that determines the odds. 

[huntnnw]

odds even worse if there is 3 guys on 1 application.. as the draw goes and you get to 2 tags left that application is booted as there is not 3 tags left

[buglebrush]

If 10 guys apply with each having 10% odds, the probability that one of them draws a tag is 65.132% not 100%.  It gets exponentially worse as you increase the number of applications.  A system like Idaho would be an enormous boost to draw odds. 

[bobcat]

If you increase odds for one person the odds decrease for another. You can't change the odds without changing the number of people applying for permits, or changing the number of permits.