Wolves eating all our deer

[bearpaw]

stumbled onto this news piece.....http://outdoornewsdaily.com/index.php/archives/6950

[boneaddict]

NICE LINK. 

Look deep into his eyes and tell me what emotion you think he feels, LOL

[Kain]

Not sure how bads things have to be before you consider them "devastated" but it has got to be getting close.  Lets not let this happen here.


 Idaho Fish and Game Department wildlife biologist Pete Zager
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/1234/story/573471.html

Zager said researchers don't have all the information they need, but they realize "we've got to get rolling and make decisions based on the information we have."

Here's what researchers know for sure about elk and wolves in Idaho, he said:

-- Elk herds are declining.

-- Wolf packs are growing -- well above original objectives.

-- The number of elk harvested by hunters has been declining, from around 25,000 in the mid-1990s, when wolves were reintroduced to the Northern Rocky Mountains, to roughly 15,000 last year.

-- Elk hunting seasons and quotas have been reduced for 2009, but the impacts of wolves are likely to go unchecked.

-- Wolf management through hunting is scheduled to begin this fall, but likely will be challenged in court by animal protection groups.

-- Wolves have become the most important factor in predation on elk.

However, they're not the only factor.

"Wolves have given cougars a huge favor by taking the spotlight. Cougars are still a significant factor (in elk mortality)."

-- Forest fire suppression also is a factor in elk declines.

-- The effects of wolves on elk vary dramatically in various game management units.

Bottom line: "We still need to be monitoring wolves and elk like crazy," Zager said.

[bearpaw]

Kain thankyou, I don't know if your link qualifies as proof to everyone, but it speaks volumes when researchers and F&G personnel are pointing out the obvious, and all of central Idaho is screaming the very same thing.

wolfbait did you look at kains link.......

[boneaddict]

Now dang it Kain you are just perpetuating hearsay.  Whats this Zager guy and this Geist guy know.

[Kain]

Zager said that at the 8th Annual Deer and Elk Workshop that was held in Spokane.  Hopefully the guys from WDFW were listening.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/wildlife/management/conferences/2009-deer-elk/index.html

[bearpaw]

I apologize for this, but I have to be a smart a$$.

If the electricity to a town is suddently disrupted....a car is found sitting dead next to a broken off electric pole....the front of the car is all smashed in.....but no one will confess to the actual impact....I still think it is pretty safe to assume the car knocked out the electricity to the town.......

That is my scientific explanation for the idaho trilogy.......wolf/elk/idaho.....  

[boneaddict]

I knew I liked living up in Colville.

[Kain]

I apologize for this, but I have to be a smart a$$.

If the electricity to a town is suddently disrupted....a car is found sitting dead next to a broken off electric pole....the front of the car is all smashed in.....but no one will confess to the actual impact....I still think it is pretty safe to assume the car knocked out the electricity to the town.......

That is my scientific explanation for the idaho trilogy.......wolf/elk/idaho.....  

Ahh common sense and logic.  To bad they have no place in our court system.  That is where this will finally be decided. 

[bearpaw]

I looked into my Crystal Redneck Ball and alas I have some redneck predictions....

1. The "G" is getting fed up with "AR's" extreme, unreasonable, uncompromising positions.
2. Wolves will be managed in ID & MT very soon.
3. WA is too fuzzy to tell, there is a haze over western WA that I cannot see through.

 

[wolfbait]

Kain thankyou, I don't know if your link qualifies as proof to everyone, but it speaks volumes when researchers and F&G personnel are pointing out the obvious, and all of central Idaho is screaming the very same thing.

wolfbait did you look at kains link.......

Yep sure did. Idaho has been hit hard from these wolves, same as the other states. But Washington is now just starting to come out of the dark, and begin the battle against these wolves. Each state can be managed differantly through said stated game department, so in reality, each state is a whole new ball game in which the powers that be, can manipulate their course as they see fit at the time. The only way that we can make a differance in the outcome is if we stick together, alone on this wolf issue, we don't stand a chance. Everyone needs to stand-up on this one if you ever want to hunt agin in Washington. The powers that may be could think that Washington will be a push over conpared to what they have had to fight in  other states. I would like to giive them a run for the money and our wildlife. We may have an edge in the facts that have come from the flop of the wolves in other states. We have more info. on what these wolves have done to other states wildlife. The History of the wolves so far and what they have done is not flattering to anyone except the people who have forced this killer on us. we are already behind the starting line, as these wolves were planted in here and other places quite some time ago and have multiplied quite well. Anytime the environmentalists put words out there that include hunting wolves as a big game animal, they are hanging the carrot in front of you, to apeeze you. they will not control these wolves in Wa. that is their plan. As you can see with the cattle grazing permits. Everything will revolve around protecting and promoting the wolves and the wolves will put our wildlife in the animal pit. the talk about the cougars on a killing spree, I find hard to beleive in the fact, that now with the wolves involved these elk are even hard to hunt than before. So if anything the cougars are killing less elk or deer than before. Cougars are nothing like the wolves for running down game, they do not pack-up and hunt, nore do they the lung capacity to run their prey down, the reason that hounds work so well. I have read this same speech form others before, about how they are still studing the affects of the wolves on elk and moose and deer herds, I think it is a delaying action, (we think we see what we think is happening but lets study it more). Have you ever met people who spent their lives going to collage, only to be over qualified for every job? The end results is they do nothing with all that they have learned.

[Kain]

Again I am going to play advocate for the WDFW and others like them.  I think the reason they have to have sooo much "confirmed" evidence on wolf populations is because is has got to hold up in court.  They cannot get away with estimations with these animal rights groups.  They cannot even use photo proof because they will just be told that they have to prove they are not hybrids.  It is ridiculous that things will have to get very bad before they will be able to do anything about it.  I hate "reactive" management plans. 

I still think not enough people are reporting their wolf sightings.  I understand there are reasons some dont want to report.  I just think a paper trail of complaints and sightings would be a huge tool in a "proactive" plan.  Right now they can just say there are not that many wolves and there is no evidence that they are wrong.

 

[wolfbait]

Well you may be right on all of that Kain. But here is an example of someone that actually saw 2 wolves go across the road in front of him just below the new wolf habitat. This guy not only took pictures of the wolves, which were as tame as housecats, but he reported his sightings to the proper people, and they turned it into an, I don't beleive him. People here in the valley, said there ya go. As far as I can see they still want to contend that there is just one little ol wolf pack here with a couple of pups. When in reality more people than I know have seen these wolves in more places to be just 6 er 7 wolves.  I really wish there was only 6 or 7, it would sure make things a hell of alot easier deciding just where to dig one big hole. I probably shouldn'y say things like that, but they brought these wolves into this country illigally, and I know 2 wrongs don't always make a right but I think this time it would.

[WDFW-SUX]

You aint alone wolfbait.

[bearpaw]

Folks there is good progress being made, 2 years ago the ID F&G would not have said half as much as they are saying now.

I agree with kain, F&G must operate on facts and show studies that can substantiate everything to the public and courts.

At the same time I totally agree with wolfbait, we need to spread the word and continue to be proactive about this issue.

There is more good material from more sources in this thread than I have ever seen in one place, let's keep it going for all to read.