Argali tent - First outing review

[Stein]

Anyone have the 4p tipi?  I'm looking for one, specifically sil-poly and have been looking at this one.  I need one with a nest for summer, stove jack optional but might use it.

The double doors are a plus, don't see to many downsides to theirs except the nest is square and you lose real estate when using it.

[phildobaggins]

Following, my buddy Cody just told me he was thinking about one of these this morning. Very interested in feedback!

[OltHunter]

I don't believe it's made in the USA.

[Wolfdog2314]

I bought the Rincon 2 person. To use mostly for a one person with stove. I have the Seek Outside Cimarron for two people with a stove. I wanted something a bit smaller and lighter for the solo cold hunts.

I have not set it up yet tho. I’ve talked with Brad, Argali owner, before on the phone about his knives and he is a stand up guy.

The 4 person is intriguing too. If I like the Rincon enough I may swap my Cimarron for the 4 person Absaroka.

[pickardjw]

Following as well. The sil-nylon sag has killed a bit of my enthusiasm for my Cimarron. Along with Seek's not-so-pro-2A stance. Got a Durston x-mid 1P and Argali Owyhee 1P ordered, might upgrade the Cimarron after I figure out which of those I prefer.

[Stein]

Yeah, sag, water weight and slow dry pretty much turn me off of nylon tents unless it's summer time and I'm not moving every night and don't care much.  In addition to that, urethane coating is on my "never again" list.

With those two, unless you go to $1,000 DCF tents, there unfortunately aren't many options.

[pickardjw]

What's the deal with the urethane coatings?

[Stein]

They don't last.  After several years it starts flaking off and then the tent leaks unbelievably bad.  REI tents had that problem and I think they switched but haven't looked recently.  I have a tent that I got completely soaked in last year and am trying to fix it, but it's hard to recoat the fabric unless you get the old coating off which is difficult to say the least.  I'll probably just toss it in the dumpster.

If you look through some of the REI forums, there are tons and tons of people complaining about having a tent in great condition that is now worthless because the fly leaks horribly and they don't sell replacements or offer any sort of repair service, warranty or any avenue to get it resolved.  It's the same with other manufacturers too, I just happened to learn about it through issues with my REI tent.

It's fine for a cheapie tent that's only going to last a year or two, but if you spend good money on an otherwise quality tent and are hoping to get many years out of it, well it didn't work for me and a bunch of other people.

[OltHunter]

@Stein is the silicon coating seek uses now part of what you describe above? Not sure if urethane and silicon fall in the same bucket. Hadn't thought or heard about that before.

Tent Fabric
Sage Green 30 Denier Nylon 6.6 Ripstop
3000 mm hydrostatic head
33% more abrasion resistant than nylon 6
Ripstop woven, Silicone coated

[Stein]

No, silicone is different and what most use silicone on polyester or nylon.  Argali uses polyester, most others use nylon.  There is a huge internet debate on what is better.

Urethane or polyurethane are different, but I'm not a chemical engineer.  I did take one year of college chemistry 25 years ago though.

[Stein]

Well, I just ordered it, figure I could always sell it for a few bucks less if I don't like it.

I have three weekend truck camping trips, two weekend backpacking trips and a week in July scheduled so I should have a pretty good idea what I think of it before September gets here.

[highside74]

Argali and the new Peax are very interesting. I'm leaning toward the peaks. Go hunt just did a YouTube and 4 man tipi shelters. I think both of these tents were in it.

[OltHunter]

If only they both weren't sewn in China.

[Stein]

Argali and the new Peax are very interesting. I'm leaning toward the peaks. Go hunt just did a YouTube and 4 man tipi shelters. I think both of these tents were in it.

Yeah, I had been thinking about trying a tipi and that video is what reminded me to not wait until late August.

[vandeman17]

I bought the Rincon 2 person. To use mostly for a one person with stove. I have the Seek Outside Cimarron for two people with a stove. I wanted something a bit smaller and lighter for the solo cold hunts.

I have not set it up yet tho. I’ve talked with Brad, Argali owner, before on the phone about his knives and he is a stand up guy.

The 4 person is intriguing too. If I like the Rincon enough I may swap my Cimarron for the 4 person Absaroka.

I chatted back and forth with Brad a year or two ago when I was looking at tents. He was very open and honest about the pros and cons of his equipment which I totally respect. I didn't end up buying a tent but they were on my short list

[Stein]

For sure every tent is a compromise.

[Stein]

Tent arrived today, so you can't fault their shipping speed.

First impressions are positive.  Scale weight was 0.3 oz heavier than listed, so right on there.  Build quality is excellent, flawless stitching and zero lose threads or any other imperfections.  I'll get a closer look when I seal it but I did poke around a fair bit.

The main zippers are the best I have used, no snagging and easily open and close even while under tension.

Stakes are fine, nothing new there and not really my favorite style but not worth replacing.  Stuff sack is easy to use, not too small.

Setup was easy, but like all non free standing tents, you're at the mercy of finding good anchor points.  Pole socket was well protected, so no fear of using tips of trekking poles, a stick or whatever.  I have no plans to buy and pack around a carbon pole.

Height is good, can't quite stand at 6'4" but would have no problem getting dressed inside for two people at the same time.

Double doors are awesome, way handy for multiple people.  Vent is well designed and nice they included a little pole thing to prop it up and velcro to keep it all tight if you want more warmth.  Stove jack is well designed, nice feature to be able to remove it.

Fabric is nice, doesn't make noise when flapping in the wind like some fabrics do.  Minimal flapping when the doors are closed and it's rigged fairly taught.

Overall size seems spot on, again at 6'4" I had plenty of room but wasn't swimming in space.  Two people during archery season would find this a palace.  With stove, I'll have to see but likely fine as well.

No major issues from initial look, if I was to nit pick, the stove jack could serve double duty as a second vent for summer use, it's there and a simple upgrade could be done that doesn't cost much in construction or weight.  I've never been in a tent that had too much ventilation.

There are internal loops for hanging stuff I assume but they are up so high that you couldn't hang much up there as they are only a foot apart or so, a second set lower down would be nice, particularly when you have the stove/gear on one side and sleeping on the other and don't need the open height on the gear side.  I might have to sew some in.

No guy out lines or stakes are provided.  Most tents are like this, probably more for published weight than cost.  I get it, but at least offer a kit, the only thing they sell is 6 extra stakes when you probably want 4 extra.  Minor stuff, but none the less.  I'm not sure how much would be gained room wise since when I pulled on the side, the corners shrunk in, could be no free lunch there.  I'll see when I rig up some guylines.  Guy outs are provided on all four corners and four sides, so 8 to choose from.

Color is OK, would prefer green or brown, but grey is fine, again nit picking here.

Like all other tents, unrealistic expectations of sleeping the claimed number.  Two is good, three would be tight, four is nogonna happen.  I get they "have" to do that to be competitive, but come on, can't we figure out a legit way to advertise?

Seam sealing directions are mysterious, they tell you several times to only seal the inside but not why.  Literally every tent I have sealed was from the outside.  They way they show you in the video is incredibly sloppy, way better ways to do it.  My guess is their sealing job looks so bad they don't want it showing on the outside.  I'll seal the outside and maybe the inside if I have the motivation.  They do include the sealant and it's top notch, most require you to buy it.

If anyone is interested, I'll follow up with actual use experience when I get it out.

[Wolfdog2314]

Thanks for the detailed review! Now that it’s nice out, I’ll have to get my 2P Rincon setup and seamsealed in the yard.

I seamsealed my Cimarron from the outside. Interesting that this one calls for it from the inside.

[Stein]

Watch their video, around the stove jack you can see silicone dripping down, he smears a ton on with his finger.  It's kind of surprising, they went through the effort of filming a video and there are probably 5,000 videos on YouTube showing a better way to do it since most of the ultra lightweight backpacking tents require it.

[Wolfdog2314]

Watch their video, around the stove jack you can see silicone dripping down, he smears a ton on with his finger.  It's kind of surprising, they went through the effort of filming a video and there are probably 5,000 videos on YouTube showing a better way to do it since most of the ultra lightweight backpacking tents require it.

Yah I just watched it. It’s definitely a messy process haha. He said in the video that “there’s many reasons to seamseal from the inside, trust me” but didn’t reveal them. In the comments section he did say that the reason to seal from the inside is because the sealant is out of the elements/sun. Which makes sense I guess.

[Stein]

I know people hike the AT and PCT and put in over 100 nights in the sun and don't have a problem and the interwebs says silicone doesn't degrade with exposure to UV.

I'll probably do both inside and outside and put some strips across the floor of the nest to avoid the pad sliding around.

I use the mineral spirits, paper towel method, works great for me.

[Stein]

Outside sealed.  Man, there are a lot of seams on this thing.  I'll go inside it tomorrow and hit the top and velcro.  There's no way you can get everything from one side and after getting wet in a tent more times than I care to remember, I'm a bit obsessive about seam sealing.

[Stein]

Finished sealing a few places on the inside.  I heard back and they said because if you do it on the outside it attracts dirt but that you can do it on either side.  So, no big mystery I guess.  I've never had dirt stick to seams, seems like not much sticks to silicone.   

[pickardjw]

Huh, I liked the UV explanation better than that weak sauce!

[Stein]

Yeah, trust me!

[Stein]

I went out last weekend, two nights in near constant rain and overall I'm happy with it.  The silpoly performed as hoped, no sag, no water absorption and completely different than silnylon.  Packing up wet, I simply shook it and put it in a plastic bag to keep my other gear dry.  It was wet, but wasn't the wet, heavy sloppy mess nylon would have been.  That alone is worth the purchase.

We got a ton of rain and zero problems with anything.  The nest has taped seams, so no sealing drama.  I didn't have to re-tension any of the guyouts or touch it at all due to sagging like with nylon tents.  Very nice.

The main zipper is pretty good. I got snagged a few times which I think is unavoidable with a flap, but much better than others like Big Agnes.

Venting was good, I pitched low due to temps and rain and had very minimal condensation, almost none.  No water got in the vent or through the stove jack opening.  My bag and gear didn't touch condensation as the nest is well designed to provide the double wall protection.  I did wipe the doors before getting out just to see how much condensation there was, but it wasn't necessary.

The area between the nest and fly is big enough to store boots, maybe a pack in good weather, but I wouldn't put it there if raining.

Now the cons:

1.  The nest doesn't have a peg loop where the three zippers come together.  This is a big miss in my opinion as you can't open the nest with one hand unless you step on the bottom with your boot to hold it.  If you don't, pulling on the zipper simply pulls the nest up.  I will sew one in.

2.  The doors attach to the stake with a cord loop which is tied too small to use any stake other than those provided.  This is a big miss as well.  The way it is, every time you want to get in the tent you have to wrestle the loop over the stake even using the factory stakes.  Factory stakes (and most aftermarket) have notches at the top to keep the loop from coming off.  It also keeps the door loop from coming off every time you try to get in or out.

Getting out of the tent isn't fun as you have to reach under and try to wrestle it out.  If you only get out in the morning and get in at night it's fine, but if you get in and out frequently you will not like it.

One way to make it work is leave one side disconnected all the time, but that means all the stress is now on the zipper which I think might be a problem during windy conditions.  The loops on all stake points suffer as well, I'll retie them all or add cord so I can easily use Groundhog or other stakes.

I'll convert to z-packs style.  https://zpacks.com/products/double-hook-apparatus-1

3.  The nest only has one zipper.  I knew this going in, but would have gladly carried the few ounces and paid another $10 to have two zippers.  Even if you didn't need it for egress, it would have allowed you to easily access the mini vestibule and store one guy's boots and whatever on each side.

You only have easy access to one of the four "vestibule" areas.  You can stuff things under the other three sides but you need to do it from the outside which wouldn't work for boots.  Since it's staked down, only two of the four areas are practical to use, the other two could only fit small items under the fly without unstaking it.

4.  The provided stakes suck.  I sunk them all the way in and three pulled out the first time I pitched it in "real world" conditions.  I'll be replacing them with MSR Groundhogs.  (On a related note, the Amazon Grounghog Chinese knockoffs suck as well, bent the first one the first time I used it, shown in pic below).

5.  The zipper flap velcro is pretty obnoxious when trying to open it all up with one hand.  I wonder if it's really necessary.

6.  The main door tie backs are bad for both the fly and nest.  This problem has been long solved with velcro or an elastic loop that is quick and easy.  Argali chose static line and a cord lock that is not fun on a good day and very frustrating with cold hands.  I don't use them often and will use it even less often the way they did it.

7.  The nest attaches to the fly with mini carabiners.  These are very secure, but are hard to operate with cold hands and impossible with gloves.  A simple hook might work, maybe it comes off during assembly and the carabiner is needed.
 
8.  The nest doesn't have gear loops at the top.  If they were important enough to include in the fly, why wouldn't they be important to include in the nest?  If you pitch with trekking poles as I did, you can hook a light to the poles, but if you use the carbon pole or tie the top to a tree and go pole-less, you're out of luck.

9.  Finally, the stuff sacks could be bigger to allow easier stuffing as well as allow them to conform better to voids in your pack.  They are above average, stuffing is no problem, but I'm picky.  Honestly, I don't use stuff sacks except for storage so this is an extremely minor critique.  Others have noted that if you want to leave the nest and fly attached, you can't use a stuff sack as it won't fit into either of the two sacks.

Overall, no show stoppers.  Although I had 9 points above, the only two I care much about are the first two and I can easily fix.  The other ones seem to be things that in my opinion should have been worked into the design.  I'm one guy with opinions and experience with probably 30 tents, so they may not be important to others.

I have yet to own or use a tent I didn't find problems with, this one has far fewer than any others.  Overall I would give it an A-, easily upgraded to a solid A.  Some of the issues are personal preference, but things like opening the door are clear problems that should have been discovered during field testing and easily addressed.

I'll get much more use this year, so things like durability, pitching in different conditions and withstanding wind will be tested.

Pic is after 2 days of rain, nice & tight.  Some may recognize the camping area.  The bent stake is the Chinese Groundhog knockoff, NOT the Argali provided stakes which haven't bent but did pull out fairly easily in soft forest soil.

[Wolfdog2314]

Thanks for the solid review. Looking forward to getting mine out!

[Elkfever]

Great initial review, curious to read any updates since 2023? 

[Stein]

Same story, really happy with the tent.  I used it last fall for archery season floorless and it's a great tent for two guys with the stove, maybe 3 without.  I also used it on the Bogachiel under torrential rain and it was flawless.

My only wish is that they used waterproof zippers instead of flaps like Durston does.  They always get stuck right when you have your hands full.

I did rip it, but it's my fault and would have happened to any tent lighweight.  I bought a piece of silpoly off the interweb and sewed it back together, only about 6" and it's good as new.

I have the nest, but probably wouldn't have bought that as I use a Durston during the summer as I'm almost always solo and their tents are much better IMO than the 1P Argali tent.

I can't see myself every buying a silnylon tent again, for me poly is so much better in the rain it isn't even close.