Poult Watch

[Machias]

Saw two hens this morning with a HUGE difference in poult age.  One hen had 2 poults about the size of Rhode Island red rooster and the other had 2 about the size of quail.

[bearpaw]

yelp....one thing we discussed was taking some oat hay for turkeys that are causing problems and putting it out nearby to try and pull the birds away from the haystacks, but in the end everyone agreed it is only a temporary fix, every few days we would have to basically feed the birds to keep them away from the haystacks.

The NWTF bio has suggested planting trees that bear acorns, I think oak trees. He seems to think it will take a few years to establish the trees but that its a better long term answer to other winter feeding. Do you have any thoughts on that?

[bearpaw]

yelp...I get a few fall hunters but not too many, most people book hunts in the fall for bigger game.

You had asked my opinion on hunting the nuisance sites. I think it's a good thing, get the landowner some money to ease his losses and get him to thinking those turkeys are a positive thing for his ranch. As soon as a couple birds are killed on the first couple days, the rest get wary or break up. Many move way back up the mountain onto public land. If no one is shooting in the barnyards those birds would stay on private a lot longer before moving to public ground. Best thing for the public hunters is for the private barnyards to get shot in on the opening morning. That moves birds....

Without the farmers supporting turkeys we wouldn't have many birds after a long hard winter. Most of the places I lease don't have big issues about the wildlife anymore, they view wildlife as an economic asset now. They used to worry about the deer eating some alfalfa in the summer or the turkeys tearing up the haystack or pooping on the hay in the winter. But most of them figure those deer and turkeys are worth having around now. Many throw a little hay or grain to the birds in a seperate area to help them out through the winter now.

You don't have to worry about all the ground getting leased up, some landowners like to let public hunters have a place to hunt, some save it for family and friends, and some don't want any hunting. I even think the "no hunting" places are great for hunters, I view them as game rearing areas that provide additional game to surrounding areas. 

I wasn't concerned about the birds until we had two years in a row with bad winters and wet hatches. Hopefully this hatch is more successful and the winter will be gentler.

By the way...thanks for the past recommendations....I appreciate that.

[Wacenturion]

yelp....one thing we discussed was taking some oat hay for turkeys that are causing problems and putting it out nearby to try and pull the birds away from the haystacks, but in the end everyone agreed it is only a temporary fix, every few days we would have to basically feed the birds to keep them away from the haystacks.

The NWTF bio has suggested planting trees that bear acorns, I think oak trees. He seems to think it will take a few years to establish the trees but that its a better long term answer to other winter feeding. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Do I have any thoughts....yeah.....I have one.......that's such a typical NWTF text book response.  "All it takes is a forest of acorns" huh?  That won't do s**t in the long run as far as our NE nuisance problems are concerned.  But I bet they, the NWTF, can probably start an "Acorn in the Outdoors" program and collect fees and sell tee shirts.  

Sorry to be so sacastic, but that just ruined my morning cup of coffee.  That bit of management direction is almost as good as when the NWTF suggested Rio's in Whatcom county last year.

[Machias]

      

[Wacenturion]

     

Not jacked.....just answering Bearpaw's question regarding the recommendation put forth by the NWTF biologist.  Looking back at his question, maybe he wasn't looking for my input as he directed it to Yelp.  My bad.   

[turkeydancer]

My fall experience is that they initially scatter, but back just as thick at the barns within a couple days.   

[bearpaw]

Wacenturion....I still haven't figured out why you are so bitter, but lets just set that aside. I questioned the acorn theory myself, will acorns produce the same way here as back east? Will they really produce food that the birds can get at in the winter? Our birds seem to really do well on pine nuts, problem is when the pine nuts are under two feet of snow they are hard to get. So why would it be any different with acorns? Obviously I am not completely sold on the acorn idea. Do you have any ideas that might work better that we could consider?

[Wacenturion]

First one has to understand the basic biology of oaks.  Here is a chart that shows that generally oaks have to be 20 years old or older before they produce enough acorns to be significant as a food source.  Also, what oak do you plant?  Most are non native.  Oaks are also intolerant of shade....you know like that shade from fast growing ponderosa pine and other conifers....  Not saying oaks are bad...just where they occur is for a reason, as in Klickitat county....Oregon white oak.  
The assumption by the biologist that oaks would solve the problem or even make any difference is absurb.  It would take forever and require huge plantings that would be unrealistic in scope, let alone type of oaks, soils, keeping conifers at bay to avoid shade, manpower, etc.  Sounds good, but generally I call this recommendation, conservation fuzzy talk.  Agree....they, the acorns would also be under snow.

 

[yelp]

I think if I was to spend NWTF's money to help with the nuisance issue.  I would fund an educational campaign about feeding turkeys and about winter diets of turkeys with some tips on what landowners (cattleman) can do to avoid problems.  I would also use NWTF volunteers and start a database and document the actual problems landowners have not the perceived problems.

 I would have NWTF fund hay replacement and/or pay landowners to leave some crops for wintering wildlife.  There will always be large flocks wintering in cattle operations.  NWTF could fund trap/transfer efforts.  We could take those turkeys that are trapped and move to other sites.  Pine nuts do get covered but so does everything else.  I think it would take to long for Oak trees to be established and effective.  On a larger landscape I think prescribed burning and seeding partnered with private landowners, USFS and private timber companies may have some benefits to turkeys.  

Remember wild turkey diets are mostly comprised of insects and having healthy poults going into winter is also important.  Outside of artificial feeding it is hard to come up with an approach to assist with nuisance issues.  I do believe that the term 'Nuisance' is over used nowadays.  I have watched flocks of wild turkeys sustain a winter diet of natural foods and make it until the Spring with no heavy mortalities.  I think some use it as an excuse to push certain agendas.    

Sorry to Hijack the Poult Thread...LOL

[bearpaw]

Machias....I am still learning about this whole forum concept, sorry about the extra conversation, I should have started a seperate thread with my questions.

[turkeydancer]

Just wanted to point out that there is no such thing as "nuisance" turkeys, just sometimes we may have "excess" turkeys in some locations.   

[carvermoe]

I saw 13 sat with three hens

[Machias]

Machias....I am still learning about this whole forum concept, sorry about the extra conversation, I should have started a seperate thread with my questions.

No need, I was only joking.   

[yelp]

Saw some poults yesterday..size of grouse..