Did We Get Penalized so Hikers & campers could enjoy Labor Day weekend?

[Dave Workman]

For the 2nd year in a row, Grouse hunting season's opener here in WA is set back to Sept. 15. The claim is that this will improve survival of hens and younger birds.

However, some have suggested this setback was to allow campers, hikers and others -- maybe including bowhunters(?) -- to have the Labor Day weekend without any shots fired.

What about that?  How about a three-day HOLIDAY weekend to benefit grouse hunters? Would have to be in early fall, before start of rifle deer season. 

[hunter399]

 I did road hunt a bit on Monday evening.(not for grouse)
With all the labor day traffic,only seen two.
One fly off the bank and across.,and another that ran off in the tall grass.

But yes I do miss the opening September 1 .
Is the bag limit still 4/day.
Not sure why they can't just do 3/day and open on time.

I believe your most likely right about it being a recreational thing.
Not about grouse numbers.

[mboyle0828]

Buddy and I were bear hunting yesterday. Pushed a dozen grouse as we were hiking. Normally we would have had a limit of grouse. Bummer

[Caseknife]

Yeah, kind of agree that there were ulterior motives, not just to protect females and young birds.  Got set up with a Sig P322 with Romeo Zero and silencer, just can't shoot any grouse yet.  Thought this was the 3rd year of this bs.

[Dave Workman]

Is the bag limit still 4/day.
Not sure why they can't just do 3/day and open on time.

Same bag limit, only three may be the same species.  It's all in the REGULATIONS PAMPHLET    Haven't you picked up the regs and read them, yet?

[HntnFsh]

Yep, Monday we passed up on about 10 stupid blues. That sucked!

[Bucks2Ducks]

I was hoping they would at least leave it the 1st for youth... Makes it hard for me to get the kids out with it now coinciding w/ archery elk. I never thought bout the labor day crowds, but that definitely sounds like something WDFW would do

[C-Money]

I miss the 9/1 grouse opener. Always really looked forward to it.

[hunter399]

Is the bag limit still 4/day.
Not sure why they can't just do 3/day and open on time.

Same bag limit, only three may be the same species.  It's all in the REGULATIONS PAMPHLET    Haven't you picked up the regs and read them, yet?

Ya it's 4/day if not the same species.
Yes I just downloaded the small game regulations like 9/1.
You are correct.....
By why not just say 3/day regardless of species.
Open it on 9/1.

[Dave Workman]

Is the bag limit still 4/day.
Not sure why they can't just do 3/day and open on time.

Same bag limit, only three may be the same species.  It's all in the REGULATIONS PAMPHLET    Haven't you picked up the regs and read them, yet?

Ya it's 4/day if not the same species.
Yes I just downloaded the small game regulations like 9/1.
You are correct.....
By why not just say 3/day regardless of species.
Open it on 9/1.

Because THAT IS NOT the goal. The goal, according to one theory, anyway, is to keep bird hunters out of the woods so they don't alarm the Labor Day weekend day hikers, campers, picknickers trail bike riders, ad infinitum... And the Department also says it is to prevent or reduce the early season harvest of hens, which I can sort of understand, but because of the department's track record on other management decisions, not so much. 
Mule deer for example. The 3-point minimum was supposed to only last for a certain time period, IIRC. How'd that work out?
Elk management: Nobody has ever been able to explain why there's a 3-point minimum on the westside and spike only on the east side (without a permit). It has never made sense.
Spring bear hunting nixed...Why, really?

Give this a read and it might explain some things: 
http://www.thegunmag.com/national-sportsmens-group-zeroes-in-on-was-politicized-game-management/

[blackdog]

Have you asked for an interview on those questions.

[hunter399]

Is the bag limit still 4/day.
Not sure why they can't just do 3/day and open on time.

Same bag limit, only three may be the same species.  It's all in the REGULATIONS PAMPHLET    Haven't you picked up the regs and read them, yet?

Ya it's 4/day if not the same species.
Yes I just downloaded the small game regulations like 9/1.
You are correct.....
By why not just say 3/day regardless of species.
Open it on 9/1.

Because THAT IS NOT the goal. The goal, according to one theory, anyway, is to keep bird hunters out of the woods so they don't alarm the Labor Day weekend day hikers, campers, picknickers trail bike riders, ad infinitum... And the Department also says it is to prevent or reduce the early season harvest of hens, which I can sort of understand, but because of the department's track record on other management decisions, not so much. 
Mule deer for example. The 3-point minimum was supposed to only last for a certain time period, IIRC. How'd that work out?
Elk management: Nobody has ever been able to explain why there's a 3-point minimum on the westside and spike only on the east side (without a permit). It has never made sense.
Spring bear hunting nixed...Why, really?

Give this a read and it might explain some things: 
http://www.thegunmag.com/national-sportsmens-group-zeroes-in-on-was-politicized-game-management/

So basically they want to reduce harvest of hens.(9/1-9/15)
If you lower the bag limit and open on 9/1 doesn't that achieve the goal that WDFW want to accomplish.

I understand what you are saying that grouse numbers or breeding hens is an excuse to keep us from hunting grouse on September 1.
And outdoor recreation during labor Day is the real reason-your opinion.

I'm trying to say this in a nice way.....

If we aren't willing to compromise on a bag limit. Then there is no use in complaining about the 9/15 opening.
Cause grouse numbers are the excuse WDFW is using.

Now I'll tell ya my opinion...

Bag limit for grouse was always 3/day for as long as I can remember. Then they changed it to 4/day mixed bag.
Which most people can't even tell the difference between grouse species. So everyone just shoots 4/day.
Now grouse numbers are low, breeding hens or whatever.
Now we are stuck with a 9/15 opening. When the 3/day should of never changed,season opening should of never changed.

More opportunities means less opportunities in the future.

Here is a good article all about it.

https://wdfw.medium.com/start-of-forest-grouse-season-delayed-this-year-bf994692e3eb

I did read your article,I'm fully aware of the crap show commission.
Advocacy issues that are in play.
I also refuse to be involved,or argue about the commission.
My views don't always align with other sportsmen,so I choose to not be a supporter. I also have the advocacy board on ignore.
Commission=losing battle that isn't worth my time.

[Special T]

Funny thing is that overall grouse take happens incidental to big game hunting. Not that many birds are harvest while only hunting birds. Ironically Grouse are just like folks killing cats, only while they are out big game hunting.

[spookgus]

That’s me. I’m not a grouse hunter. When backpacked in for archery I’ll harvest a grouse to add to dinner when possible.

[RobinHoodlum]

Pretty sure this is in fact the 3rd year since they changed it. And, I feel confident in saying we'll never get those first 2 weeks back.

It has nothing to do with other user groups. The justification was population #s, but the point I belabored at the time was that they didn't have the a robust data set on which to base this state-wide change. Rather, they used sex/age numbers from a few discrete areas (i.e. wing barrels) and hunter harvest reports (harvest trends). There was also a complete failure by DFW to acknowledge the weather related annual oscillations in brood production.

Forest grouse hunting/harvest is indeed incidental for.most, but some.of us with bird dogs used these couple weeks to get out and tune up the dogs, harvest some.birds, and maybe scout for big game,.pick some shrooms etc... 

kiss it good bye fellas!

[Dave Workman]

Pretty sure this is in fact the 3rd year since they changed it. And, I feel confident in saying we'll never get those first 2 weeks back.

It has nothing to do with other user groups. The justification was population #s, but the point I belabored at the time was that they didn't have the a robust data set on which to base this state-wide change. Rather, they used sex/age numbers from a few discrete areas (i.e. wing barrels) and hunter harvest reports (harvest trends). There was also a complete failure by DFW to acknowledge the weather related annual oscillations in brood production.

Forest grouse hunting/harvest is indeed incidental for.most, but some.of us with bird dogs used these couple weeks to get out and tune up the dogs, harvest some.birds, and maybe scout for big game,.pick some shrooms etc... 

kiss it good bye fellas!

All interesting observations!

THX for weighing in.

[Dave Workman]

Ya it's 4/day if not the same species.
Yes I just downloaded the small game regulations like 9/1.
You are correct.....
By why not just say 3/day regardless of species.
Open it on 9/1.


So basically they want to reduce harvest of hens.(9/1-9/15)
If you lower the bag limit and open on 9/1 doesn't that achieve the goal that WDFW want to accomplish.

I understand what you are saying that grouse numbers or breeding hens is an excuse to keep us from hunting grouse on September 1.
And outdoor recreation during labor Day is the real reason-your opinion.

That is an opinion, not necessarily mine, but it's an interesting opinion.

If we aren't willing to compromise on a bag limit. Then there is no use in complaining about the 9/15 opening.
Cause grouse numbers are the excuse WDFW is using.

Let's talk about that a minute. IIRC, nobody asked hunters to "compromise" on this, it was just adopted as a regs change. It was explained as a way to reduce harvest of hens, as I recall.

Now I'll tell ya my opinion...

Bag limit for grouse was always 3/day for as long as I can remember. Then they changed it to 4/day mixed bag.
Which most people can't even tell the difference between grouse species. So everyone just shoots 4/day.
Now grouse numbers are low, breeding hens or whatever.
Now we are stuck with a 9/15 opening. When the 3/day should of never changed,season opening should of never changed.

More opportunities means less opportunities in the future.

Here is a good article all about it.

https://wdfw.medium.com/start-of-forest-grouse-season-delayed-this-year-bf994692e3eb

I did read your article,I'm fully aware of the crap show commission.
Advocacy issues that are in play.
I also refuse to be involved,or argue about the commission.
My views don't always align with other sportsmen,so I choose to not be a supporter. I also have the advocacy board on ignore.
Commission=losing battle that isn't worth my time.

That's an interesting position.
You may want to read this, or maybe not.
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/op-ed-the-changing-landscape-of-language-in-washington-game-management/?fbclid=IwAR2ZtoFODORIWkSPdcrgNuVAWvHREp1XKYh1ec6hDr4CHcEUCcosk0-QcRg

Thanks for weighing in.

[2MANY]

The elephant in the room is 2many people in the high country and timber company's helicopter spraying the lowlands.

[ducks4days]

Did they make the change in response to a population study?

[Henrydog]

I had a forestry class in college 30 years ago.  The Dr got side tracked and started talking about Grouse.  They have a 7 year population cycle that is boom and bust.  The population increase every year for 6 years and then crashes.  Protection hens does nothing for population growth.

[hunter399]

Ya it's 4/day if not the same species.
Yes I just downloaded the small game regulations like 9/1.
You are correct.....
By why not just say 3/day regardless of species.
Open it on 9/1.


So basically they want to reduce harvest of hens.(9/1-9/15)
If you lower the bag limit and open on 9/1 doesn't that achieve the goal that WDFW want to accomplish.

I understand what you are saying that grouse numbers or breeding hens is an excuse to keep us from hunting grouse on September 1.
And outdoor recreation during labor Day is the real reason-your opinion.

That is an opinion, not necessarily mine, but it's an interesting opinion.

If we aren't willing to compromise on a bag limit. Then there is no use in complaining about the 9/15 opening.
Cause grouse numbers are the excuse WDFW is using.

Let's talk about that a minute. IIRC, nobody asked hunters to "compromise" on this, it was just adopted as a regs change. It was explained as a way to reduce harvest of hens, as I recall.

Now I'll tell ya my opinion...

Bag limit for grouse was always 3/day for as long as I can remember. Then they changed it to 4/day mixed bag.
Which most people can't even tell the difference between grouse species. So everyone just shoots 4/day.
Now grouse numbers are low, breeding hens or whatever.
Now we are stuck with a 9/15 opening. When the 3/day should of never changed,season opening should of never changed.

More opportunities means less opportunities in the future.

Here is a good article all about it.

https://wdfw.medium.com/start-of-forest-grouse-season-delayed-this-year-bf994692e3eb

I did read your article,I'm fully aware of the crap show commission.
Advocacy issues that are in play.
I also refuse to be involved,or argue about the commission.
My views don't always align with other sportsmen,so I choose to not be a supporter. I also have the advocacy board on ignore.
Commission=losing battle that isn't worth my time.

That's an interesting position.
You may want to read this, or maybe not.
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/op-ed-the-changing-landscape-of-language-in-washington-game-management/?fbclid=IwAR2ZtoFODORIWkSPdcrgNuVAWvHREp1XKYh1ec6hDr4CHcEUCcosk0-QcRg

Thanks for weighing in.

Thanks
I do support our hunting privileges in Washington.
I just don't support talking about it on this forum.
I can send emails and comments,ect, on my own without help from others.

[bmc02]

I was hoping they would at least leave it the 1st for youth... Makes it hard for me to get the kids out with it now coinciding w/ archery elk. I never thought bout the labor day crowds, but that definitely sounds like something WDFW would do

totally agree! the 1st should be open for youth. give them first chance at the few roadside dummies whose days are numbered regardless.

[hunter399]

I kinda want to leave this topic on a positive note.
Yes it sucks,I do miss a 9/1 opener.
But I've been pretty active in the woods since 9/1 .
I've seen dozens of grouse since 9/1 . It has made a positive in grouse numbers even though it's just been a few years of setting the season back.
The 9/15 opening this year should be Great. And more of a quality experience if your a grouse nut.
Or if your like me ,just driving around glassing cuts,and dinking around. Should be able to pick up few grouse along the way.

Even though it seems bad or a disappointment.
The overall experience is much better.

Good luck out there....
Get your grouse on!!!   9/15.

[hunter399]

I was hoping they would at least leave it the 1st for youth... Makes it hard for me to get the kids out with it now coinciding w/ archery elk. I never thought bout the labor day crowds, but that definitely sounds like something WDFW would do

totally agree! the 1st should be open for youth. give them first chance at the few roadside dummies whose days are numbered regardless.

Even though my kids are past youth age.
First 15 days for youth sounds like a great idea.
It's ashamed that WDFW couldn't come up with an idea like that.