Etiquette Question - Unoccupied Backcountry Camp

[joedawjes]

While hunting a Wilderness area, I came across a well-established hunter's camp. The camp was unoccupied. It had a green accordion sleeping pad, tarps, pots/pans, a shovel, water jugs, and an American Buffalo Silver Dollar nailed to a tree. The camp remained unoccupied for the remainder of the trip, and I didn't move my setup to the new location.

I plan to return to the area and use the hunter's camp because it's probably the best campsite in the drainage. I've identified 3 total campsites in the drainage (including the hunter's camp). In my opinion, it's fair game to use the camp so as long as I (1) don't drink their water (2) take their belongings (3) dismantle any of their setup. Basically, leave no trace within the camp...even though its existence goes against the leave no trace principle.

If the camp's founder(s) walked up while I was staying there, I would probably move. I don't think that I'm obliged to move, but I think that adding a land dispute to the mix would ruin both of our hunts because we would already be in each other's zone. I'd rather have a conversation about which areas we plan to hunt so that we're not stepping on each other's toes.

If you set up camp in a backcountry camp and the founder(s) arrive after you, what's the proper etiquette? Also, if you set up this camp, feel free to PM me. I'm happy to share my hunt plans and see if we can avoid this situation altogether.

[Woodchuck]

I would not want to be seen near that camp. You never know how someone might react to someone in and amongst their stuff. You never know who may have also called in the camp and then makes another call to notify LEO that that camp is now occupied and now is a good time to go nab the offender. 

[fishngamereaper]

How about find your own spot

[knob221]

I experienced a similar situation this year. Someone had established a tent site and left behind some small items: small folding chair, tarp, and a hand saw. They had a game camera set on a tree pointing right at the tent site for some odd reason. I also found a torn up and scattered contractor bag that I have suspicion they tried to cache food in a small tree. There were claw marks going up the tree from this year (based on the wounds being sapped over but not healed yet) and black hairs on the tree trunk. So, I think a bear ate their food cache.

This sort of gear cache is not only unethical (my opinion), but it is also illegal on most public lands, certainly the area I was in. I'm not sure whether they really cached food or not, but if so I would call that wanton disregard.

I set up in that tent spot and turned the game camera away just so that they wouldnt get 10k photos of me at camp. I turned the camera back to its original position when I left, because I have no qualms with game cameras that are eventually retrieved. I used all of the items they left behind because they left it on public land. It is litter; useful, but litter. We packed out the torn up trash bag because that space/weight is negligible and we packed out the tarp because we got deer blood on it . The only thing I feel bad about was that I didnt pack out the chair and saw, but our packs were already tight on space and pushing 100 lbs after we killed a buck out of "their camp".

Had they shown up (never did) I would have tried to have a respectful conversation with them, but that may have been hard for me if you cant tell. If they wanted to set up camp next to me, thats fine, but its not their spot because they littered there.

You may consider looking into the regs for this topic where you are hunting. If it is illegal, I would feel empowered to camp there, use their stuff, then pack it out. Gear caching is  unethical to me unless you're just making multiple trips within a short period of time. 

[full choke]

How about find your own spot

Or, how about don't leave your trash (unoccupied campsite) on a mountain when you are not there?

[fishngamereaper]

How about find your own spot

Or, how about don't leave your trash (unoccupied campsite) on a mountain when you are not there?

It's an assumption it's unoccupied.
I often run base camps and spike camps
Sometimes don't see base camp for 3-5 days. Sometimes I only see it in the middle of the night to re supply hiking with headlamp so I don't spend quality hunting time re supplying...

Who's to say my camp is unoccupied and what's the appropriate time to deem it unoccupied.

Abandoned with junk is one thing...but legitimate camp supplies... I'd be a little annoyed to find someone in it.
I've had my camp completely moved in the taneum....and one destroyed in Idaho Backcountry by an outfitter....
Sometimes a guy just wants to be left alone..

[huntnnw]

How about find your own spot

Or, how about don't leave your trash (unoccupied campsite) on a mountain when you are not there?

Must not get out west much . There are camps setup up all over the west weeks sometimes before seasons start. Hell I’m headed out Friday to pack camp in and setup and I’ll leave and return a week later . I’ll tell you right now if I show and someone is using my stuff better hope you can run. If you wanna set up your camp in same area go for it and that’s a risk we all take. If I show up in a area and there’s a camp I’m moving on. Last thing I wanna do is hunt around others , no thanks.

[vandeman17]

I can say that I would never actually use someone else's gear but if its obvious that nobody has been there, I wouldn't have a problem camping near it with my own stuff. If they ended up coming in, I would hopefully have a conversation with them about plans and go from there. 

[full choke]

How about find your own spot

Or, how about don't leave your trash (unoccupied campsite) on a mountain when you are not there?

Must not get out west much . There are camps setup up all over the west weeks sometimes before seasons start. Hell I’m headed out Friday to pack camp in and setup and I’ll leave and return a week later . I’ll tell you right now if I show and someone is using my stuff better hope you can run. If you wanna set up your camp in same area go for it and that’s a risk we all take. If I show up in a area and there’s a camp I’m moving on. Last thing I wanna do is hunt around others , no thanks.

Never said a word about using someone's stuff. But don't for one minute tell me about setting up a camp weeks before actual use means you have any claim whatsoever to the ground it sits on.

[knob221]

Yeah I guess it depends on the context.

I would look into the regulations for where you're hunting. The situation I described above was miles and miles in, off trail in an unestablished campsite, and had clearly been unoccupied for weeks at least. Again, as I mentioned, such gear caching is illegal in that area.

Other situations described by folks seem more legitimate, and after rereading the OP, perhaps your situation falls into a situation like that. Still, I wouldn't shy away from camping next to that spot if that is where you really truly want to hunt so long as you have a respectful conversation with them and try to reach a mutual agreement.

[LDennis24]

Could be out burying the teeth and hair from the last person that upset them...  but really, some people don't think before they act, I would not even set foot near it. Stupid people act before thinking and you could be dead because they thought you were stealing and they are dumb and are willing to kill you over a Jetboil or Coleman stove. It's a crazy world out there!

[Buckhunter24]

How about find your own spot

  the fellow who set up the camp might be outside the wilderness guidelines, but find a spot for your own tent.

[bradslam]

Could be out burying the teeth and hair from the last person that upset them...  but really, some people don't think before they act, I would not even set foot near it. Stupid people act before thinking and you could be dead because they thought you were stealing and they are dumb and are willing to kill you over a Jetboil or Coleman stove. It's a crazy world out there!

I get that some people don't react rationally, but the original poster didn't say anything about using any of their stuff. Basically just camping at the site using his own equipment. This was in a wilderness area so there shouldn't be a bunch of crap left behind, but some people unfortunately do so.

[huntnfmly]

How about find your own spot

Or, how about don't leave your trash (unoccupied campsite) on a mountain when you are not there?

^^^^^^ This

How about find your own spot

Or, how about don't leave your trash (unoccupied campsite) on a mountain when you are not there?

Must not get out west much . There are camps setup up all over the west weeks sometimes before seasons start. Hell I’m headed out Friday to pack camp in and setup and I’ll leave and return a week later . I’ll tell you right now if I show and someone is using my stuff better hope you can run. If you wanna set up your camp in same area go for it and that’s a risk we all take. If I show up in a area and there’s a camp I’m moving on. Last thing I wanna do is hunt around others , no thanks.

^^^^
Ahh you are one of those people that consider it your spot because you abandoned your stuff there a week early and are entitled to the hunting area
Guess what wrong and I believe it’s illegal
There are other threads about ghost camps

[lewy]

Id feel pretty weird staying in that camp

[LDennis24]

Could be out burying the teeth and hair from the last person that upset them...  but really, some people don't think before they act, I would not even set foot near it. Stupid people act before thinking and you could be dead because they thought you were stealing and they are dumb and are willing to kill you over a Jetboil or Coleman stove. It's a crazy world out there!

I get that some people don't react rationally, but the original poster didn't say anything about using any of their stuff. Basically just camping at the site using his own equipment. This was in a wilderness area so there shouldn't be a bunch of crap left behind, but some people unfortunately do so.

Yeah thanks, I read the OP before posting. I didn't say he intended on using it. I said THEY might think he intended on using it and freak out. For those calling it abandoned, how long did you sit and watch the equipment before determining it was abandoned? What does a roll up sleeping pad look like after 24 hrs or sitting four days in the woods? How about 8 days? 14 days? Maybe they just left it that morning and the bear showed up and tore everything apart and it just looks abandoned? How do you know? Is someone else not allowed to leave camp for 10 hours while it's daylight and hunt or scout and return after dark? I'm getting the feeling some folks build their gear up by visiting "abandoned " campsites. 

[pickardjw]

If all the crap is in the same place weeks/months later on a return trip I say fair game to tidy it up in a pile off to the side and camp there.

It would depend on how critical the camp site is. If it's only a little more convenient than the others, I wouldn't mess with it. If it's a thousand times better than the others, I'd chance it. Unless just being there made the hair on my neck stand up.

What is it, 14 days max on NF land? If you're leaving camp up any longer than that to save a spot, YTA.

[PacificNWhunter]

One of the places I've hunted has an established camp tucked in the trees with some gear up in the branches. I ended up hunting close by and camping in a different location. I ended up meeting the people who hunted up there the next year and they were pretty cool about me being there, they have been going in there for 20 years. Personally I'm looking for solitude so I moved on to another spot.

[joedawjes]

Thanks for the responses, everyone. It seems like people are pretty split.

I keep noticing that some people say "my spot" which is understandable but incorrect in my opinion. By the letter of the law, no individual owns the land. So, it can't be one individual's spot. It's everybody's spot. However, I understand that people get possessive over land that they don't own. We have a long track record of human behavior as evidence.

I think that it's first some first serve, but I'm willing to cede the spot if somebody comes in super pissed off. Personally, I don't care too much that the camp exists in an area where established sites are illegal.

To be clear, this camp is WAY off trail and one drainage away from being one of the most remote spots in the area. It's also a very tidy camp. So, I'm thinking that 1 or 2 groups uses it consistently. I wouldn't use their items. I would just pitch my tent. I realize that staying there is a risk, but it's a risk I'm willing to take because I think it's a small percentage of people who resort to violence without a conversation. I think that I'd be able to de-escalate a tense situation with my words.

[pianoman9701]

It's one thing if it's a cheap tent and a lawn chair meant to save a spot. It's another altogether if it's a true camp with equipment. Leave it alone and start your own. Could be a base camp. Might be a camp taking several trips to develop. If you were inhabiting my camp when I got back, I'd have some questions for you. They might be less than polite.

[MADMAX]

Don’t worry
If we continue to fight amongst ourselves
We wont have any hunting
Direct your effort in a different direction like the upcoming commission meetings
Just an opinion 

[pianoman9701]

Don’t worry
If we continue to fight amongst ourselves
We wont have any hunting
Direct your effort in a different direction like the upcoming commission meetings
Just an opinion 

Different opinions are what he asked for. That doesn't mean we're fighting among ourselves. And, most of us can do more than one thing at a time. We can have differing opinions on specific topics and direct our efforts in the commission hearings.

[MADMAX]

I hope your right
👍

[2MANY]

This is bazaar.