The ridiculousness of the Methow Valley and Mule deer

[LDennis24]

I only got involved in this thread because I don't understand how suddenly everyone seems to be against wintering areas for wildlife, when if you jump on a thread about shed hunting everyone screams about anybody going into the area at all because the animals will be stressed by human presence. What is with that?

[huntnphool]

I only got involved in this thread because I don't understand how suddenly everyone seems to be against wintering areas for wildlife, when if you jump on a thread about shed hunting everyone screams about anybody going into the area at all because the animals will be stressed by human presence. What is with that?

 Don’t get it twisted, nobody said they were against wintering areas for wildlife.

[timberfaller]

Interesting debate!  Quick thought, and I think the former "locals" posting here will back me up.  Since the deer number have gotten so low, winter comes along,  a lot of deer wind up being "town deer"(most likely the bigger percentage of the herd), if they aren't on "Deer Hill".  WHO shows up when this occurs???  Any guess's??

If you think cats are afraid of humans,  don't live in the Methow,  you'll be in for a big surprise!!  Jingles sent a picture just the other day, "guess whats in my backyard?"  Now if you know Jingles and where he lives, I've made my point!   Us "former locals" can give numerous accounts of "ally cats"

Valley living hint 1:  If you have a open barn, look before you enter during winter months!  Especially if you have "pets".

Number 2: IF you have kids waiting to catch the school bus, KEEP a close eye on them and for movement around them.  Especially near town!

[Kascade_Killer]

The Kalispell tribe's Cougar Bio, Bart George, was on The Broadside podcast this week and talks quite a bit about how cats in our state, other than those removed for depredation, have very little negative interaction with humans since the outlawing of hound hunting. This has resulted in generations of cats who do not associate humans with threat. So it would seem to me leaving the area open to humans or not, the herds will still be impacted by cats. Wolves seem to have a bigger buffer between them and humans from what I can tell.

Would recommend the listen: https://elliottoutdoorgear.podbean.com/

Can vouch to this 2014 we shot a cougar on a bluff in the cascades at less then
15ft after it stalked us in the buck brush then stood up on its hind legs swiped its paws (sub 5ft) and growled. I wish I was lying… at 14 years old there were definitely poop stains in my shorts.

Will never forget it.

[bigmacc]

Interesting debate!  Quick thought, and I think the former "locals" posting here will back me up.  Since the deer number have gotten so low, winter comes along,  a lot of deer wind up being "town deer"(most likely the bigger percentage of the herd), if they aren't on "Deer Hill".  WHO shows up when this occurs???  Any guess's??

If you think cats are afraid of humans,  don't live in the Methow,  you'll be in for a big surprise!!  Jingles sent a picture just the other day, "guess whats in my backyard?"  Now if you know Jingles and where he lives, I've made my point!   Us "former locals" can give numerous accounts of "ally cats"

Valley living hint 1:  If you have a open barn, look before you enter during winter months!  Especially if you have "pets".

Number 2: IF you have kids waiting to catch the school bus, KEEP a close eye on them and for movement around them.  Especially near town!

👍Yep, me and ole W.F killed one under his house one year and he killed one in the old barn about 4 years later. When he and his wife were running Macs old ranch up in the north valley back in the 70,s into the 90,s. Seen one one year perched on a log up by the cemetery in Winthrop in someone’s driveway back in the mid 80,s. Heck I remember them finding a bunch of cached deer and dogs under the bridge in town! If I remember right they got that cat also. for sure. Yep, cats are scary, one of the only animals we got in the valley that will hunt a human as well as deer…… we’ll, it used to be the only one…:bash:

[bigmacc]

I only got involved in this thread because I don't understand how suddenly everyone seems to be against wintering areas for wildlife, when if you jump on a thread about shed hunting everyone screams about anybody going into the area at all because the animals will be stressed by human presence. What is with that?

I can only speak for myself but I’m for a closer of wintering grounds during harsh winters. Like I said, those couple months in the dead of winter during certain years can be hell on the herd. I also think there needs to be a more diversified approach (for lack of a better word) if they(WDFW) are serious about wanting to improve deer numbers. Shutting down doe permits for awhile is a start and as said, a more aggressive approach at predator management. I would bet if all 3 were implemented, no doe harvest for 5 years, cut cougar and bear numbers by 30-40 percent and create a “sanctuary area” during December and January during harsh winters. For me anyway, I think we’d see a significant increase in herd numbers in 5-8 years. All user groups would have to give a little. The winter recreationalists would loose some access, hunters would loose their doe tags and predators would be thinned.

I didn’t mention wolves being thinned because I doubt that they are going to do anything about wolf populations in the valley, yet. Could that be used as a compromise from hunters? Who knows but for now I’d sure take a healthy reduction in cats and bears as that compromise. Bottom line, a healthy herd with growing numbers is good for everyone, hunters AND their beloved wolf………. I don’t want to loose our hunting in this valley and I want the herd to grow and be healthy for future generations to hunt, I have better ideas but WDFW doesn’t want to hear them, trust me🤣😆🤣

[wolfbait]

I only got involved in this thread because I don't understand how suddenly everyone seems to be against wintering areas for wildlife, when if you jump on a thread about shed hunting everyone screams about anybody going into the area at all because the animals will be stressed by human presence. What is with that?

I can only speak for myself but I’m for a closer of wintering grounds during harsh winters. Like I said, those couple months in the dead of winter during certain years can be hell on the herd. I also think there needs to be a more diversified approach (for lack of a better word) if they(WDFW) are serious about wanting to improve deer numbers. Shutting down doe permits for awhile is a start and as said, a more aggressive approach at predator management. I would bet if all 3 were implemented, no doe harvest for 5 years, cut cougar and bear numbers by 30-40 percent and create a “sanctuary area” during December and January during harsh winters. For me anyway, I think we’d see a significant increase in herd numbers in 5-8 years. All user groups would have to give a little. The winter recreationalists would loose some access, hunters would loose their doe tags and predators would be thinned.

I didn’t mention wolves being thinned because I doubt that they are going to do anything about wolf populations in the valley, yet. Could that be used as a compromise from hunters? Who knows but for now I’d sure take a healthy reduction in cats and bears as that compromise. Bottom line, a healthy herd with growing numbers is good for everyone, hunters AND their beloved wolf………. I don’t want to loose our hunting in this valley and I want the herd to grow and be healthy for future generations to hunt, I have better ideas but WDFW doesn’t want to hear them, trust me🤣😆🤣

That closure would be Twisp, Winthrop and the river bottoms-2008 we fed over a hundred head with our broncs, last winter we had 23 at the most and those 23 bounced back and forth from town when the wolves come through. On a good saddle horse I can ride to town cross country in 15 minutes.

Remember what the wolves did to the Lolo elk herd, or the Yellowstone.

What the article that start this thread along with WDFW did was throw out the emotional hook. They gave the illusion that they actually gave a dam about the deer, but their actions of the present and past prove them liars. They made the closure about helping the deer, it's a joke on those who already know the score, and for those who know nothing, it gives them hope.

It creates a great discussion on how to save the deer herds, but nothing will change for the deer, they will still be run through the predator slaughter house, and WDFW will continue to issue doe permits and have their usual deer season till there are no deer left to hunt.

My question would be, what's the next closure and the BS reasoning behind it? How much of a closure will they need to save the grizzly bears?

We were watching some home movies the other night of the 50's and 60's and the huge deer herds. The Methow will never see deer like that agin, those days disappeared with the Game Department.

[timberfaller]

  for bigmacc and wolfbait!

Speak no sooner and ka-boom!  Seen this today, came up on my phone!  Hint: they don't care about YOUR input!

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/should-grizzlies-return-to-was-north-cascades-the-feds-want-your-input/

[huntnphool]

I only got involved in this thread because I don't understand how suddenly everyone seems to be against wintering areas for wildlife, when if you jump on a thread about shed hunting everyone screams about anybody going into the area at all because the animals will be stressed by human presence. What is with that?

I can only speak for myself but I’m for a closer of wintering grounds during harsh winters. Like I said, those couple months in the dead of winter during certain years can be hell on the herd. I also think there needs to be a more diversified approach (for lack of a better word) if they(WDFW) are serious about wanting to improve deer numbers. Shutting down doe permits for awhile is a start and as said, a more aggressive approach at predator management. I would bet if all 3 were implemented, no doe harvest for 5 years, cut cougar and bear numbers by 30-40 percent and create a “sanctuary area” during December and January during harsh winters. For me anyway, I think we’d see a significant increase in herd numbers in 5-8 years. All user groups would have to give a little. The winter recreationalists would loose some access, hunters would loose their doe tags and predators would be thinned.

I didn’t mention wolves being thinned because I doubt that they are going to do anything about wolf populations in the valley, yet. Could that be used as a compromise from hunters? Who knows but for now I’d sure take a healthy reduction in cats and bears as that compromise. Bottom line, a healthy herd with growing numbers is good for everyone, hunters AND their beloved wolf………. I don’t want to loose our hunting in this valley and I want the herd to grow and be healthy for future generations to hunt, I have better ideas but WDFW doesn’t want to hear them, trust me🤣😆🤣

That closure would be Twisp, Winthrop and the river bottoms-2008 we fed over a hundred head with our broncs, last winter we had 23 at the most and those 23 bounced back and forth from town when the wolves come through. On a good saddle horse I can ride to town cross country in 15 minutes.

Remember what the wolves did to the Lolo elk herd, or the Yellowstone.

What the article that start this thread along with WDFW did was throw out the emotional hook. They gave the illusion that they actually gave a dam about the deer, but their actions of the present and past prove them liars. They made the closure about helping the deer, it's a joke on those who already know the score, and for those who know nothing, it gives them hope.

It creates a great discussion on how to save the deer herds, but nothing will change for the deer, they will still be run through the predator slaughter house, and WDFW will continue to issue doe permits and have their usual deer season till there are no deer left to hunt.

My question would be, what's the next closure and the BS reasoning behind it? How much of a closure will they need to save the grizzly bears?

We were watching some home movies the other night of the 50's and 60's and the huge deer herds. The Methow will never see deer like that agin, those days disappeared with the Game Department.

 And the creation of the Wildlife Dept!

[elksnout]

I have zero knowledge of the area other than what I’ve read on HW thru the years. But just for perspective I just got home from an antelope hunt out of Dubois, WY. Hunted almost exclusively on state game department land of grasses and sagebrush. That area is considered winter range for deer and elk. Posted signs everywhere for no human entrance between Dec 16th thru June 20th. Anyway, thought I’d share.


elksnout

[wolfbait]

for bigmacc and wolfbait!

Speak no sooner and ka-boom!  Seen this today, came up on my phone!  Hint: they don't care about YOUR input!

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/should-grizzlies-return-to-was-north-cascades-the-feds-want-your-input/

Bears like wolves head for home when they are relocated, you could confirm this if you ask WDFW about their grizzly bear releases up the Chewuch. If they were honest with you, they would tell you that the last griz they had radio contact with was back in British Columbia.

[MADMAX]

for bigmacc and wolfbait!

Speak no sooner and ka-boom!  Seen this today, came up on my phone!  Hint: they don't care about YOUR input!

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/should-grizzlies-return-to-was-north-cascades-the-feds-want-your-input/

I hope everyone submits their concerns or support

Bear spray stock would be a good investment for your portfolio 😳

[Scruffy]

for bigmacc and wolfbait!

Speak no sooner and ka-boom!  Seen this today, came up on my phone!  Hint: they don't care about YOUR input!

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/should-grizzlies-return-to-was-north-cascades-the-feds-want-your-input/

They had meetings in Darrington about grizzly reintroduction around 2014 I think it was.  They wanted to place them in the Glacier Peak area in the wilderness.  Most of town was there and about ran the Bio's out of town.  Now it seems they want to "ask" again and will keep asking until they get the answer they want.  Please click the link and leave your comment.  This is the last thing any deer population needs is another predator.

[Skyvalhunter]

The tree hugger groups are relentless in their desire to have Grizzlies there. If only our hunting groups had as much persistence.

[boneaddict]

That was already a flash in the pan.  They tried to ban horses from the Pasayten in the name of grizz bear recovery.  I don't remember the years exactly but it was an Al Gore project.  The back country horseman succeeded in their opposition of it.   I'm sure they will try again.   Grizz bears are already in the Valley, and if the country can hold them it is. 
Just another agenda piece, its never been about mule deer