The ridiculousness of the Methow Valley and Mule deer

[mcrawfordaf]

That's because they have the largest year impact on the deer population.

Prove it!

That's not hard to do at all, look at the Lolo elk herd or the Yellowstone after the illegal introduction of wolves. Do you think the wolves only eat elk?

Totally diff ecosystems…. Even so, that does not prove the reason todrop of herd quantity.
Go ahead and keep on drinking the wolf-aid,   Pretty sure you are kegs worth into it so far.

PS, I’m not say wolves/preds do not play a part……just not as big
Of a role as most claim…… they are an easy blame tool

Of 52 Mule Deer mortalities studied in the Okanogan during the Predator Prey Project - 22 were predation... 

[NOCK NOCK]

@wolfbait.
I’ll answer your question by throwing the same basic ? Back to you.

Do you think that wolves only eat ungulates?

[NOCK NOCK]

That's because they have the largest year impact on the deer population.

Prove it!

That's not hard to do at all, look at the Lolo elk herd or the Yellowstone after the illegal introduction of wolves. Do you think the wolves only eat elk?

Totally diff ecosystems…. Even so, that does not prove the reason todrop of herd quantity.
Go ahead and keep on drinking the wolf-aid,   Pretty sure you are kegs worth into it so far.

PS, I’m not say wolves/preds do not play a part……just not as big
Of a role as most claim…… they are an easy blame tool

Of 52 Mule Deer mortalities studied in the Okanogan during the Predator Prey Project - 22 were predation... 

Not sure if you argree/disagree with my post?
But it proves my point. Lets do some math.....

So 42% of the study animals were killed by predators, that leaves 58% killed/died by other means. Not the "sky is falling" numbers some would like you to believe.

Why is blackjack a predominant game at gambling casinos?  Simple, the odds are in the favor of the house.
The basic odds of winning a hand of blackjack as a player are guess what? 42%

Guess we all need to be playing BJ to get rich. It's working for the predators.

[MtnMuley]

Why do you even keep on babbling NOCK? If you don't think predators play a very significant part in the herd health of the Methow Valley ungulates were discussing, then it shows you're absolutely clueless. Have you even spent any time in the hills up here?

[2MANY]

Who's there?

[NOCK NOCK]

Why do you even keep on babbling NOCK? If you don't think predators play a very significant part in the herd health of the Methow Valley ungulates were discussing, then it shows you're absolutely clueless. Have you even spent any time in the hills up here?

 Yep clueless, that's me you nailed it. SMH

At least I don't call folks names.  Grow up!

[bigmacc]

Why do you even keep on babbling NOCK? If you don't think predators play a very significant part in the herd health of the Methow Valley ungulates were discussing, then it shows you're absolutely clueless. Have you even spent any time in the hills up here?

On your side Mtn Muley.  Some have no clue of this turf. I would imagine he is very educated on his turf but the Methow is being turned into a predator pit.  Nock, my door is open, I will bring in at least 1 retired Game Department employee that will shoot you down as far as your “predator “ statement, number one in all our books! If you’d like, I’ll bring in more, we can have a drink👍 and then I’ll bring in more.  With respect, you’re way off base! Predators are pounding our herds!!!!

[NOCK NOCK]

Here's some more for ya.. MMM

2022 harvest in district 6 was 2000ish deer......not included in the aforementioned mortality study. 
What happens when those kills are computed into the total mortality?

HUMANS are far and away more threatening to ungulates than predators. Legal kills, poaching, vehicle strikes, habitat encroachment. 

Uneducated clueless babbling is over.   

[NOCK NOCK]

Why do you even keep on babbling NOCK? If you don't think predators play a very significant part in the herd health of the Methow Valley ungulates were discussing, then it shows you're absolutely clueless. Have you even spent any time in the hills up here?

On your side Mtn Muley.  Some have no clue of this turf. I would imagine he is very educated on his turf but the Methow is being turned into a predator pit.  Nock, my door is open, I will bring in at least 1 retired Game Department employee that will shoot you down as far as your “predator “ statement, number one in all our books! If you’d like, I’ll bring in more, we can have a drink👍 and then I’ll bring in more.  With respect, you’re way off base! Predators are pounding our herds!!!!

Anytime! 

Never said preds are not hurting the population......they simply are not the #1 reason for the decline. 
Massive fires have opened up the country for better visibility, Average rifle shooter can knock em down at greater distances now a days, multi season allows way to much pressure, homes going up right and left in prime habitat, lack of logging = loss of better feed, increased human population = more vehicle strikes, etc. etc. I can go round and round with any WDFW employee....heck I believe you are one to call out their worthless management? (the current staff) not old timers. Things are different these days from when they were employed.

Reminds me of an old Hustler cartoon. 2 old guys sitting in a house with the walls covered in trophys. The caption is, "Yep used to be alot of deer in these parts"   
I have killed deer in your neck of the woods, and I know you and your family have killed far more than I have up there............WE are both a big part of the problem.

[2MANY]

Wew.
At least global warming isn't the cause.

[bigmacc]

Why do you even keep on babbling NOCK? If you don't think predators play a very significant part in the herd health of the Methow Valley ungulates were discussing, then it shows you're absolutely clueless. Have you even spent any time in the hills up here?

On your side Mtn Muley.  Some have no clue of this turf. I would imagine he is very educated on his turf but the Methow is being turned into a predator pit.  Nock, my door is open, I will bring in at least 1 retired Game Department employee that will shoot you down as far as your “predator “ statement, number one in all our books! If you’d like, I’ll bring in more, we can have a drink👍 and then I’ll bring in more.  With respect, you’re way off base! Predators are pounding our herds!!!!

Anytime! 

Never said preds are not hurting the population......they simply are not the #1 reason for the decline.

Reminds me of an old Hustler cartoon. 2 old guys sitting in a house with the walls covered in trophys. The caption is, "Yep used to be alot of deer in these parts"   
I have killed deer in your neck of the woods, and I know you and your family have killed far more than I have up there............WE are both a big part of the problem.

Agree to disagree. Predators will eventually be the demise of hunting in the state of Washington. I will make a gentleman’s bet at any time. Encroachment, human intrusion and whatever else folks want to “throw at the wall and see if it sticks” is absurd. I will March back to the 20,s 30,s and how ever far you want to go back. I’ve been there for some, heard stories of others, met pioneers that have told stories and shared pictures. When predators were kept in check, deer flourished (at least in the Methow), don’t know much about your turf. I know my great grandparents would travel on horseback over into the “Chelan side” from time to time. Grandpa had an old fella out of Brewster he would pack with. They killed many bucks around Domke. Killed many up 25 mile, in fact 1 of the biggest bucks grandpa shot was up there.

Bottom line, it ain’t people. It’s 4 legged predators. We’ve got journals going back to 1917, I can tell you this. Over 50 years there was a couple bears and a couple cougars spotted. Hardly any cached kills or remnants. You don’t even want to know what we’re finding now. Predators, yep, number one 👎

Forgot, let’s throw in wolves and I’m sure you’re hearing about Grizzy introduction?

I’ll take decades of fire, I’ll take bad winters, ill take encroachments of all “sizes”, you start letting predators get out of control AND then adding more in a state that no longer has a “game Department”, like I said, I’ll make a gentleman’s bet right now that predators will destroy our hunting, and it ain’t gonna be by accident!

[Mtnwalker]

That's because they have the largest year impact on the deer population.

Prove it!

That's not hard to do at all, look at the Lolo elk herd or the Yellowstone after the illegal introduction of wolves. Do you think the wolves only eat elk?

Totally diff ecosystems…. Even so, that does not prove the reason todrop of herd quantity.
Go ahead and keep on drinking the wolf-aid,   Pretty sure you are kegs worth into it so far.

PS, I’m not say wolves/preds do not play a part……just not as big
Of a role as most claim…… they are an easy blame tool

Of 52 Mule Deer mortalities studied in the Okanogan during the Predator Prey Project - 22 were predation... 

Not sure if you argree/disagree with my post?
But it proves my point. Lets do some math.....

So 42% of the study animals were killed by predators, that leaves 58% killed/died by other means. Not the "sky is falling" numbers some would like you to believe.

Why is blackjack a predominant game at gambling casinos?  Simple, the odds are in the favor of the house.
The basic odds of winning a hand of blackjack as a player are guess what? 42%

Guess we all need to be playing BJ to get rich. It's working for the predators.

22 were confirmed by predator type, with another 9 “unknown but likely predation” so more like 59%

Also these were adult collared deer. I’d imagine the number skews way up when you start looking at mortality cause of current year’s fawn and calf crop

[Humptulips]

What was the baseline of animals studied?

[wolfbait]

@wolfbait.
I’ll answer your question by throwing the same basic ? Back to you.

Do you think that wolves only eat ungulates?

NO, they eat about anything they want, including people.

 The wolves is what put everything over the edge, without the wolves, and with hound hunting of cougars and bears our deer herds would be in far greater shape. The Game Department proved that year after year.

Who was in charge of your study?

[NOCK NOCK]

What was the baseline of animals studied?

From WDFW 

Total ungulates collared since the study began include:

Species   Adult   Juvenile
Mule deer*   149      0
White-tailed deer   131   97
Elk   63   20