Spike Elk questions

[Ocurtis]

So the Rule to be considered a spike elk is no point more than 1" located 4" above where the antler attaches to the elk head. does this mean the attached elk would be considered a legal spike?

[Woodchuck]

True spike unit, no. Spike unit, click, BOOM!

[Ocurtis]

True spike unit, no. Spike unit, click, BOOM!

ok thanks, thats what I figured!

[Stein]

Here is the WAC:

True Spike Bull Antler Restrictions: Neither antler of bull elk taken can have branching originating more than four inches above where the antlers attach to the skull. Under the true-spike restriction, taking an elk that has two points on one side or antler points within one inch of the definitions regarding length of point, or point of origination, is an infraction under RCW 77.15.160. All other types of violations of the true-spike restriction are subject to current penalties and assessments under RCW 77.15.410 and 77.15.420.

Looks like a true spike to me unless I'm missing a branch up top due to the angle or my eyesight.

[Ocurtis]

Here is the WAC:

True Spike Bull Antler Restrictions: Neither antler of bull elk taken can have branching originating more than four inches above where the antlers attach to the skull. Under the true-spike restriction, taking an elk that has two points on one side or antler points within one inch of the definitions regarding length of point, or point of origination, is an infraction under RCW 77.15.160. All other types of violations of the true-spike restriction are subject to current penalties and assessments under RCW 77.15.410 and 77.15.420.

Looks like a true spike to me unless I'm missing a branch up top due to the angle or my eyesight.

for True spike, the rule is  "... taking an elk that has two points on one side or antler points within one inch of the definitions regarding lenght of point, or point of origination, is an infraction."

to me, this is clear as mud and enough to make me choose to pass in a true spike unit -

[Woodchuck]

Here is the WAC:

True Spike Bull Antler Restrictions: Neither antler of bull elk taken can have branching originating more than four inches above where the antlers attach to the skull. Under the true-spike restriction, taking an elk that has two points on one side or antler points within one inch of the definitions regarding length of point, or point of origination, is an infraction under RCW 77.15.160. All other types of violations of the true-spike restriction are subject to current penalties and assessments under RCW 77.15.410 and 77.15.420.

Looks like a true spike to me unless I'm missing a branch up top due to the angle or my eyesight.

for True spike, the rule is  "... taking an elk that has two points on one side or antler points within one inch of the definitions regarding lenght of point, or point of origination, is an infraction."

to me, this is clear as mud and enough to make me choose to pass in a true spike unit -

[boneaddict]

I guess this is a good thread even for seasoned veterans.   

To me, this is exactly how I interpret it True spike unit, no. Spike unit, click, BOOM!

[ganghis]

I guess my reading of that is since the brow tines originate within 4 inches of the skull plate that it's still a true spike.  And that you'd need a second 1 inch or greater tine 4 inches or more up it's main to make it illegal (typically at the top of the antler). Is that not the case? 

[Ocurtis]

I guess my reading of that is since the brow tines originate within 4 inches of the skull plate that it's still a true spike.  And that you'd need a second 1 inch or greater tine 4 inches or more up it's main to make it illegal (typically at the top of the antler). Is that not the case?

the way I read it, the origination does not matter for true spike. if there is a second point, regardless of length of point or origination of point, it is no longer considered a true spike.

[Woodchuck]

I guess my reading of that is since the brow tines originate within 4 inches of the skull plate that it's still a true spike.  And that you'd need a second 1 inch or greater tine 4 inches or more up it's main to make it illegal (typically at the top of the antler). Is that not the case?

You may be right, but the wording of the true spike reg is so convoluted, there's no way I take that chance.

[Bob33]

I wouldn’t consider it a true spike.

True Spike Bull Antler Restrictions: Neither antler of bull elk taken can have branching originating more than four inches above where the antlers attach to the skull. Under the true-spike restriction, taking an elk that has two points on one side or antler points within one inch of the definitions regarding length of point, or point of origination, is an infraction under RCW 77.15.160.

Part (A) is true: “Neither antler can have branching originating more than four inches above where the antlers attached to the skull.”

Part (B) is a problem, because the elk has two points on each side when the eye guards are counted: “Under the true-spike restriction, taking an elk that has two points on one side or antler points within one inch of the definitions regarding length of point, or point of origination, is an infraction under RCW 77.15.160.

[NOCK NOCK]

Every questionable one I’ve seen, have showed pics to a warden. Reply’s have always been the same. “Looks close enough to be legal”, I have no problem with it”

A couple answers have been, “ just don’t be posting pics all over the inter web”

For me, spike/boom.  True. No

[huntnfmly]

By definition true spike boom
The branch of points is at the hairline that’s legal in both scenarios

[Stein]

I wouldn’t consider it a true spike.

True Spike Bull Antler Restrictions: Neither antler of bull elk taken can have branching originating more than four inches above where the antlers attach to the skull. Under the true-spike restriction, taking an elk that has two points on one side or antler points within one inch of the definitions regarding length of point, or point of origination, is an infraction under RCW 77.15.160.

Part (A) is true: “Neither antler can have branching originating more than four inches above where the antlers attached to the skull.”

Part (B) is a problem, because the elk has two points on each side when the eye guards are counted: “Under the true-spike restriction, taking an elk that has two points on one side or antler points within one inch of the definitions regarding length of point, or point of origination, is an infraction under RCW 77.15.160.

Part A defines a point as something beyond 4" from where it originates. Thus, the one in the pic is a 1x1, the eye guard is not relevant.  If you counted every point, part A would be unnecessary.  I read it as the points that count are the main beam point (assuming main beam is longer than 4") and any point that originates from a branch more than 4" up the main beam.

The only other explanation is that the antler branches but doesn't have a second point.  I don't think that is possible.

[CarbonHunter]

Not only is it a spike bull but I think it qualifies as a brow tine bull as well.

[Ocurtis]

It would be awesome if this could be asked to WDFW

[Gentrys]

As stated before on other threads over the years, it shouldn't be so hard to figure out if a bull in the field is legal or not.  Come on WDFW, simplify the rules.

[blindluck]

It looks clear to me that as long as points are less than 4” from where it attaches to the skull it’s a legal true spike. If points are higher then 4” above attachment it’s illegal

[HillHound]

As stated before on other threads over the years, it shouldn't be so hard to figure out if a bull in the field is legal or not.  Come on WDFW, simplify the rules.

The true spike rule should almost be considered entrapment. It’s so hard to tell sometimes, I have had to let Many legal  elk walk when I Am only 90% sure. And what is the point? We aren’t saving big bulls to breed because the natives are killing them anyways. And even if we wanted to save the big bulls for the natives why does it have to be true spike? Are we going to decimate the herds in these areas if we shoot all the two by ones? I see it  just like all the other convoluted rules that are made just for an opportunity to fine people who make an honest mistake and keep the coffers full. I would love for somebody in the know to enlighten me how I am off basis and in fact true spike only hunting and natives slaughtering big bulls is by far the best management program out there otherwise this is just a money grab. If the rules are to clear you don’t have anybody accidentally breaking them and you can’t keep your paychecks coming

[MAVsled]

True spike, NO.

General spike only, Yes.

I shot one like this, spikes weren't as tall as the elk pictured.
Just a normal eastern WA spike bull, but eye guards on each antler, each eg-point measuring 2 & 3 inches.

Was field checked by a WDFW game warden.
I was alarmed as he measured from the BASE of the skull, below the hairy nub, then up to where the eyeguard started.
3 & 3/4"....whew!

[Dan-o]

Interesting thread.

I'd shoot that bull in a true spike unit.
I don't see any points originating more than 4" from the base.

[blindluck]