Quality Deer 460 -- What am I seeing?

[logola512c]

I got a last-minute notification a couple weeks ago that I was the alternate for the 460 quality deer tag, and it was now available, so I jumped on it.  I've been out the last couple days in the Snoqualmie tree farm and I've seen six different sets of does, and none of them had bucks trailing or with them.  At least 3 of the sets were does with last year's fawns that hadn't been kicked out yet.  Does that mean the rut is not yet started?  Is it done?  Neither?  Seems weird that there's these does without bucks.  I always thought that when the does came into heat, they booted their previous fawns away.  True?  Not true?  More complicated than that?  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks 

[buckcanyonlodge]

At least with the mule deer I have observed the rut is more complicated...They do leave their fawns when a buck is after them....or the buck chases the fawn ( I have seen that happen) but they never "kick them out". They are bonded for life and stay with the home herd as much as possible...except when breeding.. Maybe blacktail are different???/

[Tbar]

I got a last-minute notification a couple weeks ago that I was the alternate for the 460 quality deer tag, and it was now available, so I jumped on it.  I've been out the last couple days in the Snoqualmie tree farm and I've seen six different sets of does, and none of them had bucks trailing or with them.  At least 3 of the sets were does with last year's fawns that hadn't been kicked out yet.  Does that mean the rut is not yet started?  Is it done?  Neither?  Seems weird that there's these does without bucks.  I always thought that when the does came into heat, they booted their previous fawns away.  True?  Not true?  More complicated than that?  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks

Stick with it, it'll pay off.  When you see does stay on them and look, look, look.  I have killed a lot of bucks by watching does long after I think they are alone.  Just start picking apart these surroundings, it won't always work but bt bucks are amazing at waiting out danger.  Good luck!

[Ironhead]

The peak rut in the tree farm used to be a few days either side of the 12th. Just cruise the roads and glass the cuts, even the small ones. There are plenty of Blacktail bucks in the tree farm.

[b0bbyg]

Local blacktails around house will have a buck chasing a doe with last year's fawns in the area trying to figure out what is going on.

2 days it was buck, doe and fawns all together with the buck chasing momma.  Then today buck was gone.

[Lucky1]

I don’t think the rut is over. I think the rut “peaks” around the late buck season. I have seen rut activity in late December. Stay optimistic!

[JakeLand]

Don’t hunt the tree farm it sucks , better areas then there in the 460

[jackelope]

Don’t hunt the tree farm it sucks , better areas then there in the 460

This is what I’m thinking too.

[logola512c]

Hey folks, thanks for all the responses.  I'm not a big fan of the tree farm but it's been good to me for bears over the last 5 or 6 years.  That's what I usually spend my time on.   The quality deer tag is a weird kind of pressure.  For deer (especially in the tree farm), my mantra is always shoot the first legal animal I see (which is usually not many), but I've passed on a couple spikes already this year because that just seems wrong for a quality tag. None of the spikes were with does. Had a 60-second stare down with a cougar about 10 yards out my passenger window today.  No good way to get out, load the rifle, and whack him, though... Interesting comments about better spots outside the tree farm in 460.  I always thought they'd be over-run with hikers, bikers, shroomers, and tweekers. Figured the tree farm was just the closest huntable area...

[IFunk]

Nothing for me unfortunately.  I have this permit too.  The difference is I would have shot the spike.     I just missed a monster last year in the unit on October 26th or so 10 minutes before shooting hours ended.  Would have been my first deer.  I hunted all day thursday and all day yesterday putting in a bunch of miles with the wind in my face and didn't see anything.  My cams show less activity than ever.  It's been odd.  I don't have a permit for the farm, but don't know that I want to purchase it this late in the game.  Are there a lot of road hunters there?  That's not really my jam.   I've been hunting the rec areas down south, but will be at it again in the morning and want to go elsewhere.  460 is so big that it's hard to know where to begin this late in the game. 

[jason stevens]

Look around Duvall cherry valley area.

[Blacktail Sniper]

Hey folks, thanks for all the responses.  I'm not a big fan of the tree farm but it's been good to me for bears over the last 5 or 6 years.  That's what I usually spend my time on.   The quality deer tag is a weird kind of pressure.  For deer (especially in the tree farm), my mantra is always shoot the first legal animal I see (which is usually not many), but I've passed on a couple spikes already this year because that just seems wrong for a quality tag. None of the spikes were with does. Had a 60-second stare down with a cougar about 10 yards out my passenger window today.  No good way to get out, load the rifle, and whack him, though... Interesting comments about better spots outside the tree farm in 460.  I always thought they'd be over-run with hikers, bikers, shroomers, and tweekers. Figured the tree farm was just the closest huntable area...

Bullets break glass and I am pretty sure, with a story like that you could have gotten some contributions from members for a new one...   

[pd]

Hey folks, thanks for all the responses.  I'm not a big fan of the tree farm but it's been good to me for bears over the last 5 or 6 years.  That's what I usually spend my time on.   The quality deer tag is a weird kind of pressure.  For deer (especially in the tree farm), my mantra is always shoot the first legal animal I see (which is usually not many), but I've passed on a couple spikes already this year because that just seems wrong for a quality tag. None of the spikes were with does. Had a 60-second stare down with a cougar about 10 yards out my passenger window today.  No good way to get out, load the rifle, and whack him, though... Interesting comments about better spots outside the tree farm in 460.  I always thought they'd be over-run with hikers, bikers, shroomers, and tweekers. Figured the tree farm was just the closest huntable area...

Continuing to riff on this comment.  If the OP had shot the puma through the window glass, and reported it here, I would absolutely have contributed to the repair fund.  After the required hazing, of course.

Bullets break glass and I am pretty sure, with a story like that you could have gotten some contributions from members for a new one...   

[jackelope]

Look around Duvall cherry valley area.

There’s almost no public deer huntable land in the immediate Cherry Valley area.

[dilleytech]

I think there are bucks around but they are likely in the thick stuff with their hot does. The does you are seeing aren’t attracting bucks yet.

[logola512c]

Nothing for me unfortunately.  I have this permit too.  The difference is I would have shot the spike.     I just missed a monster last year in the unit on October 26th or so 10 minutes before shooting hours ended.  Would have been my first deer.  I hunted all day thursday and all day yesterday putting in a bunch of miles with the wind in my face and didn't see anything.  My cams show less activity than ever.  It's been odd.  I don't have a permit for the farm, but don't know that I want to purchase it this late in the game.  Are there a lot of road hunters there?  That's not really my jam.   I've been hunting the rec areas down south, but will be at it again in the morning and want to go elsewhere.  460 is so big that it's hard to know where to begin this late in the game.

I think they sell 700 keys to the gate, and I think about 400 of those are rifle deer hunters, so it's pretty chaotic during rifle deer season.  I'd say the tree farm is about 90% road hunting during rifle deer season.  Even on little spur roads that dead end into clear cuts.  I've parked my truck at the beginning of those roads to let people know that I am hunting on foot only to see people driving their trucks right through the middle of the cut anyway.  There are a few escapement areas where recreational vehicles aren't allowed.  The other challenge is that since it's a working forest property, the clear cuts also get sprayed with herbicide (bad for the deer's food and they sometimes do it during deer season), and they also spray the biosolids (i.e., re-purposed/composted human sewage) into the clear cuts also.  There were several cuts over the last few years where I'd been tracking bucks only to have them sprayed right before or during deer season.  But...that seems like small price to pay to still have access to the timber company lands since they are after all private property now.  Good luck with your tag.  I saw another ten buckless does yesterday...

[logola512c]

Hey folks, thanks for all the responses.  I'm not a big fan of the tree farm but it's been good to me for bears over the last 5 or 6 years.  That's what I usually spend my time on.   The quality deer tag is a weird kind of pressure.  For deer (especially in the tree farm), my mantra is always shoot the first legal animal I see (which is usually not many), but I've passed on a couple spikes already this year because that just seems wrong for a quality tag. None of the spikes were with does. Had a 60-second stare down with a cougar about 10 yards out my passenger window today.  No good way to get out, load the rifle, and whack him, though... Interesting comments about better spots outside the tree farm in 460.  I always thought they'd be over-run with hikers, bikers, shroomers, and tweekers. Figured the tree farm was just the closest huntable area...

Continuing to riff on this comment.  If the OP had shot the puma through the window glass, and reported it here, I would absolutely have contributed to the repair fund.  After the required hazing, of course.

Bullets break glass and I am pretty sure, with a story like that you could have gotten some contributions from members for a new one...   

I've replayed a lot of scenarios in my head.  Driver's side could have played out differently as well.  I'd happily eat quality deer tag soup if I could do it while petting cougar fur...  I did jump out, load, and chased the cat about a hundred yards into the timber.  Heard it running for a bit, and then nothing.  That was about the point where I started getting the tingly hairs and started to rethink the wisdom of my strategy and backed out.  Came back about 2 or 3 hours later and set up nearby with a predator call but nothing...

As as a side note, a few days before this cougar sighting, about 30 minutes after dark, I drove up on three cougar kittens scurrying to get off the mainline.  I didn't see the momma that night, but the one the other day didn't have kittens.  So no shortage of cougars in there right now either... I have to admit the kittens were pretty darn cute, but they'll be stone cold deer killers soon enough.

[bigtex]

Nothing for me unfortunately.  I have this permit too.  The difference is I would have shot the spike.     I just missed a monster last year in the unit on October 26th or so 10 minutes before shooting hours ended.  Would have been my first deer.  I hunted all day thursday and all day yesterday putting in a bunch of miles with the wind in my face and didn't see anything.  My cams show less activity than ever.  It's been odd.  I don't have a permit for the farm, but don't know that I want to purchase it this late in the game.  Are there a lot of road hunters there?  That's not really my jam.   I've been hunting the rec areas down south, but will be at it again in the morning and want to go elsewhere.  460 is so big that it's hard to know where to begin this late in the game.

I think they sell 700 keys to the gate, and I think about 400 of those are rifle deer hunters, so it's pretty chaotic during rifle deer season.  I'd say the tree farm is about 90% road hunting during rifle deer season.  Even on little spur roads that dead end into clear cuts.  I've parked my truck at the beginning of those roads to let people know that I am hunting on foot only to see people driving their trucks right through the middle of the cut anyway.  There are a few escapement areas where recreational vehicles aren't allowed.  The other challenge is that since it's a working forest property, the clear cuts also get sprayed with herbicide (bad for the deer's food and they sometimes do it during deer season), and they also spray the biosolids (i.e., re-purposed/composted human sewage) into the clear cuts also.  There were several cuts over the last few years where I'd been tracking bucks only to have them sprayed right before or during deer season.  But...that seems like small price to pay to still have access to the timber company lands since they are after all private property now.  Good luck with your tag.  I saw another ten buckless does yesterday...

Those numbers are quite a bit off. I've talked to some "people in the know" and they've said most permits actually go to those simply looking for firewood and not deer hunters. There's also been an increase in anglers and mountain bike riders buying permits.

Sure it's busiest during rifle deer season but that's the same everywhere, definitely wouldn't call it chaotic. Those of us old enough to remember when the gates were open and permits weren't needed could tell you what "chaotic" looked like.

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[logola512c]

Nothing for me unfortunately.  I have this permit too.  The difference is I would have shot the spike.     I just missed a monster last year in the unit on October 26th or so 10 minutes before shooting hours ended.  Would have been my first deer.  I hunted all day thursday and all day yesterday putting in a bunch of miles with the wind in my face and didn't see anything.  My cams show less activity than ever.  It's been odd.  I don't have a permit for the farm, but don't know that I want to purchase it this late in the game.  Are there a lot of road hunters there?  That's not really my jam.   I've been hunting the rec areas down south, but will be at it again in the morning and want to go elsewhere.  460 is so big that it's hard to know where to begin this late in the game.

I think they sell 700 keys to the gate, and I think about 400 of those are rifle deer hunters, so it's pretty chaotic during rifle deer season.  I'd say the tree farm is about 90% road hunting during rifle deer season.  Even on little spur roads that dead end into clear cuts.  I've parked my truck at the beginning of those roads to let people know that I am hunting on foot only to see people driving their trucks right through the middle of the cut anyway.  There are a few escapement areas where recreational vehicles aren't allowed.  The other challenge is that since it's a working forest property, the clear cuts also get sprayed with herbicide (bad for the deer's food and they sometimes do it during deer season), and they also spray the biosolids (i.e., re-purposed/composted human sewage) into the clear cuts also.  There were several cuts over the last few years where I'd been tracking bucks only to have them sprayed right before or during deer season.  But...that seems like small price to pay to still have access to the timber company lands since they are after all private property now.  Good luck with your tag.  I saw another ten buckless does yesterday...

Those numbers are quite a bit off. I've talked to some "people in the know" and they've said most permits actually go to those simply looking for firewood and not deer hunters. There's also been an increase in anglers and mountain bike riders buying permits.

Sure it's busiest during rifle deer season but that's the same everywhere, definitely wouldn't call it chaotic. Those of us old enough to remember when the gates were open and permits weren't needed could tell you what "chaotic" looked like.

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That's good to know.  Maybe it's just all the road hunters cruising the same roads that make it seem like there are hundreds of dudes in there for deer season.  Outside of deer season, I see a lot fewer trucks. 

[matchu865]

I hunted the tree farm this year about 5 days, with a bunch more scouting. Didn't see a single deer during legal shooting hours when the season was open, and very little deer sign in the prominent hours. I had one camera catch a spike and a pretty nice 3x2, but overall all cameras had very little activity over the year. I employed a variety of tactics from still hunting dark timber, to glassing cuts. I also did a decent amount of hiking in and up to various areas & elevations. Also saw fewer bears than 3 years ago. Pressure on the gate 11 (east) side didn't seem to be too bad in the places I was going, but maybe the lack of deer was the reason why.

I did see a lot more deer and bears 3 years ago when I had the permit, but I was primarily spending time on the parcel that was sold to the tribe, so I unfortunately I lost those spots.

Comparatively, I saw a lot more deer in a highly pressured area on the east side, but about a mile and 1000ft elevation off the road. My buddy even shot a nice 4x4 during modern that I spotted a couple of weeks before during bow season. To give a sense of what I mean by highly pressured, we had 11 vehicles drive by our hike in spot while we were packing it up the truck.

I drew a Washtuncna antlerless tag, so I'm going to try and focus the rest of my season there instead of the tree farm. If anyone has any pointers I'd gladly take them.

[fly-by]

The peak rut in the tree farm used to be a few days either side of the 12th. Just cruise the roads and glass the cuts, even the small ones. There are plenty of Blacktail bucks in the tree farm.

Agree with this.  I live right off the property and saw a 3pt buck tending a doe yesterday.  First rutting behavior I've seen.  Nothing during rifle season this year. I think you are more likely to see activity during the early part of muzzleloader on the tree farm.

[fly-by]

[/quote]

As as a side note, a few days before this cougar sighting, about 30 minutes after dark, I drove up on three cougar kittens scurrying to get off the mainline.  I didn't see the momma that night, but the one the other day didn't have kittens.  So no shortage of cougars in there right now either... I have to admit the kittens were pretty darn cute, but they'll be stone cold deer killers soon enough.
[/quote]

That's a lot of cat sightings for one season.  I saw a pair northeast of the culvert yard on Sunday.  Saw something at the side of the road about 100 yards out and assumed they were bobcats.  When they turned and left and I saw long tails.  I think the young ones sometimes freeze when they hear a vehicle and mom was probably close by.  I ran up to the spot where they jumped into the woods but they were long gone.

[Jrtishchuk]

Last year 14-20 got a lot of action on cameras out on national forest in 460.  Biggest buck from this camera.


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[logola512c]

The peak rut in the tree farm used to be a few days either side of the 12th. Just cruise the roads and glass the cuts, even the small ones. There are plenty of Blacktail bucks in the tree farm.

Agree with this.  I live right off the property and saw a 3pt buck tending a doe yesterday.  First rutting behavior I've seen.  Nothing during rifle season this year. I think you are more likely to see activity during the early part of muzzleloader on the tree farm.

Well.  Flamed out on the quality tag.  Hunted in there 9 days, and I only saw one more buck -- a nice 3/4 pointer that I couldn't get a good shot on.  Irony is that on at least half of those days, I saw deer on the private property going in or coming out.  Saw three separate bucks in those sightings.  One was a cool 4 point (5 if he had eye guards) but one of his tines was pointed in a weird direction -- he was cool and didn't care about cars/trucks at all.  Had another cougar sighting in there was well.  Talked to a gate guard for a while one day, and he said the biologist estimates there are 400 cougars in there.  I believe it.  Lot of deer killers running around in there.  Wish I'd spent more time trying to fill my second bear tag. 

[logola512c]

The peak rut in the tree farm used to be a few days either side of the 12th. Just cruise the roads and glass the cuts, even the small ones. There are plenty of Blacktail bucks in the tree farm.

Agree with this.  I live right off the property and saw a 3pt buck tending a doe yesterday.  First rutting behavior I've seen.  Nothing during rifle season this year. I think you are more likely to see activity during the early part of muzzleloader on the tree farm.

Well.  Flamed out on the quality tag.  Hunted in there 9 days, and I only saw one more buck -- a nice 3/4 pointer that I couldn't get a good shot on.  Irony is that on at least half of those days, I saw deer on the private property going in or coming out.  Saw three separate bucks in those sightings.  One was a cool 4 point (5 if he had eye guards) but one of his tines was pointed in a weird direction -- he was cool and didn't care about cars/trucks at all.  Had another cougar sighting in there was well.  Talked to a gate guard for a while one day, and he said the biologist estimates there are 400 cougars in there.  I believe it.  Lot of deer killers running around in there.  Wish I'd spent more time trying to fill my second bear tag.

I have a multi-season tag also.  Might go back in there for late muzzie or archery, but at this point I'm just about broken on 460 deer.  That was an all around terrible experience.