Public comment for the December meeting can now be signed up for

[Rainier10]

https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings/2023/14-16dec2023-agenda

How are you seeing the vote? The only video I could find was the public comment part from this morning.

During the meeting you can click the zoom link and watch

[Tbar]

https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings/2023/14-16dec2023-agenda

How are you seeing the vote? The only video I could find was the public comment part from this morning.

There may be a lag in posting it online.
I would say they are playing a shell game but it's far more brutal than that.  Only a couple of them even pretend to care, the others are stating their intent and taking what's taken years to balance.  Many of their cards were exposed today and the opposition is a step ahead or several steps. Sad couple of days to say the least. 

[hunter399]

Sorry,I haven't watched meeting.
Had work,busy schedule.

So we are going back to 2018 bear and cougar rules at minimum.
Could be even more cut back.
This correct?
Again sorry,I will watch meeting soon.

That's if they approve a season.
Or even set quota numbers.

[hunter399]

Well if they want to roll back seasons.
Hopefully they have some integrity, accountability.

Here is the 2018 seasons for black bear/cougar.
Honestly if that's what they voted on,and voted yes.
Then I don't see how they can make any changes to season, except for what we did in 2018. At least for the next three years.
They should be held to there vote. If they don't like the 2018 season rules ,then they should read them before voting.
They would have to revote on this petition and vote it out .
Before making any other changes besides 2018 rules.
At this point ,the only thing we can do is hold them to there vote and be accountable for there actions.
My opinion it pretty much a guarantee at this point ,we will have a season,with rules and bag limits same as 2018,which a season with bag limits occurred in 2018.
Unless they revote the petition.
At least one positive.
Makes me wonder what the legal stand point is if they don't change season to exactly 2018 rules and regulations.

Looks like to me.
Northeast A  September 1 opening.
Blues   September 1 opening.
One bear bag limits east.
Two bear bag limits west.
Cougar stays the same season .
With quotas from 2018.

Link to 2018 big game regs.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01984

[hunter399]

Sorry I've been back tracking through there petition.
Which is does not show the official application paperwork. As all other petitions do.
It does not say anything about 2018 rules.
So they have no accountability to roll back to 2018.

I'm still working through it.
But I believe.
It shows a quota chart similar to 2018 for cougar.
But also says they will count all safety removal towards the quota.
Which pretty much means in many areas the quota will be done before the season even opens.
Season will close March 31,no April seasons.

Bear will be September 1 statewide,one bear bag limits.

Not sure if they can even vote on a petition,without showing the official application paperwork. Not sure if that's a loop hole or what.
Honestly we should petition,that there petition be thrown out do to inadequate paperwork.
Just my thoughts.
You can't vote on a petition that doesn't show you officially submitted. Also that official application would show exactly the rules and wac laws that are to be amended.
90 page report,no application for petition.
Seems a little strange.
You can go to WDFW petition page ,click on any petition and see the application page . Except there petition.
Dare ya ,here is a link.
Clink on any petition,I can see there application paper.
Except the one they just voted on.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/petitions

I think this petition was pushed through without an official submission. Just in time for the three year season setting process.
They did not make the submission paper available for public viewing before the vote.
Voting on a petition that had not officially been submitted should not be voted on.

[saylean]

Sorry I've been back tracking through there petition.
Which is does not show the official application paperwork. As all other petitions do.
It does not say anything about 2018 rules.
So they have no accountability to roll back to 2018.

I'm still working through it.
But I believe.
It shows a quota chart similar to 2018 for cougar.
But also says they will count all safety removal towards the quota.
Which pretty much means in many areas the quota will be done before the season even opens.
Season will close March 31,no April seasons.

Bear will be September 1 statewide,one bear bag limits.

Not sure if they can even vote on a petition,without showing the official application paperwork. Not sure if that's a loop hole or what.
Honestly we should petition,that there petition be thrown out do to inadequate paperwork.
Just my thoughts.
You can't vote on a petition that doesn't show you officially submitted. Also that official application would show exactly the rules and wac laws that are to be amended.
90 page report,no application for petition.
Seems a little strange.
You can go to WDFW petition page ,click on any petition and see the application page . Except there petition.
Dare ya ,here is a link.
Clink on any petition,I can see there application paper.
Except the one they just voted on.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/petitions

Interesting find coyotehunter

[bigtex]

Sorry I've been back tracking through there petition.
Which is does not show the official application paperwork. As all other petitions do.
It does not say anything about 2018 rules.
So they have no accountability to roll back to 2018.

I'm still working through it.
But I believe.
It shows a quota chart similar to 2018 for cougar.
But also says they will count all safety removal towards the quota.
Which pretty much means in many areas the quota will be done before the season even opens.
Season will close March 31,no April seasons.

Bear will be September 1 statewide,one bear bag limits.

Not sure if they can even vote on a petition,without showing the official application paperwork. Not sure if that's a loop hole or what.
Honestly we should petition,that there petition be thrown out do to inadequate paperwork.
Just my thoughts.
You can't vote on a petition that doesn't show you officially submitted. Also that official application would show exactly the rules and wac laws that are to be amended.
90 page report,no application for petition.
Seems a little strange.
You can go to WDFW petition page ,click on any petition and see the application page . Except there petition.
Dare ya ,here is a link.
Clink on any petition,I can see there application paper.
Except the one they just voted on.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/petitions

I think this petition was pushed through without an official submission. Just in time for the three year season setting process.
They did not make the submission paper available for public viewing before the vote.
Voting on a petition that had not officially been submitted should not be voted on.

The petition link is on the commission meeting agenda

https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings/2023/14-16dec2023-agenda

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[hunter399]

Sorry I've been back tracking through there petition.
Which is does not show the official application paperwork. As all other petitions do.
It does not say anything about 2018 rules.
So they have no accountability to roll back to 2018.

I'm still working through it.
But I believe.
It shows a quota chart similar to 2018 for cougar.
But also says they will count all safety removal towards the quota.
Which pretty much means in many areas the quota will be done before the season even opens.
Season will close March 31,no April seasons.

Bear will be September 1 statewide,one bear bag limits.

Not sure if they can even vote on a petition,without showing the official application paperwork. Not sure if that's a loop hole or what.
Honestly we should petition,that there petition be thrown out do to inadequate paperwork.
Just my thoughts.
You can't vote on a petition that doesn't show you officially submitted. Also that official application would show exactly the rules and wac laws that are to be amended.
90 page report,no application for petition.
Seems a little strange.
You can go to WDFW petition page ,click on any petition and see the application page . Except there petition.
Dare ya ,here is a link.
Clink on any petition,I can see there application paper.
Except the one they just voted on.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/petitions

Interesting find coyotehunter

Like said ,

Just seems strange to me.

[Rainier10]

Here is the petition

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2023-12/combined-bear-cougar-petition.pdf

[javman]

I watched the recording of yesterday's public input and googled each speaker.
Recording is here: https://tvw.org/video/washington-fish-and-wildlife-commission-2023121005/?eventID=2023121005

I counted 38 speakers. 27 were in support of the petition to change cougar and bear seasons and 11 against. The first 17 speakers were in support. Five have direct positions at Washington Wildlife First, and a sixth appears to be the spouse of one of those.

It would be interesting to know if the other 70-100 people who didn't get to speak were in support or against. The deck sure seemed to be stacked.

Here is a list of all of the speakers who supported the petition, along with any affiliations that they declared or I found online. At the start of each line is the approximate time that they started speaking in the video.

• 40:44 Julia Zelman, Communications Director of Washington Wildlife First
• 42:40 Ann Prezyna, Secretary of Washington Wildlife First, https://wawildlifefirst.org/our-people/ann-prezyna/
• 44:55 Josh Rosenau, Lake Forest Park, Director of Policy & Advocacy for Mountain Lion Foundation, https://mountainlion.org/team/
• 47:10 Ronald Reed, Spokane, Vice President of Washington Wildlife First, https://wawildlifefirst.org/our-people/ron-reed/
• 50:00 Rachel Haymon, Klickitat County, member of Coexisting with Cougars. (She also shows up on the Friends of the White Salmon River website at https://friendsofthewhitesalmon.org/ribbon-of-life-series/)
• 52:15 Patricia Arnold, Klickitat County, Friends of the White Salmon River
• 54:30 David Linn, Grays Harbor, Treasurer of Washington Wildlife First, https://wawildlifefirst.org/our-people/david-linn/
• 56:45 Clair Loebs Davis, President of Washington Wildlife First, https://wawildlifefirst.org/our-people/claire-davis/
• 59:15 John Rosapepe, Pacific Northwest Representative of Endangered Species Coalition, https://www.endangered.org/mission/staff/
• 1:02:15 Rachel Bjork, Board of Directors at Northwest Animal Rights Network, https://narn.org/board/
• 1:04:30 Lorelei Leah McFadden, King County
• 1:05:20 Debra Reed, Spokane, appears to be wife of speaker #4 from Washington Wildlife First per https://wawildlifefirst.org/our-people/ron-reed/
• 1:07:40 Oren Ashlinazi, Lynnwood
• 1:08:10 Lisa Eschenbach, Seattle
• 1:09:20 Ben Wolk, King County
• 1:11:30 Bob McCoy, Chair of the Mountain Lion Foundation, https://mountainlion.org/team/bob-mccoy/
• 1:14:20 Coleman Byrnes, "involved in the local land trust and several salmon enhancement groups, but speaking for himself"
• 1:25:00 Michael Shurgot, Member of Endangered Species Coalition
• 1:26:45 Joy Markgraf, Klickitat County
• 1:37:30 Lucy Larkin, King County
• 1:38:45 Lynn Okita, Pierce County, Board Chair of Western Wildlife Outreach, a nonprofit based in WA, and is a member of the Pacific Wolf Coalition Steering Committee
• 1:42:35 Dr. Susan Kane-Ronning, Co-Chair of WA Sierra Club Committee
• 1:45:10 Martha Hall, Skagit County, one of the two people who "filed the legal action alleging that the department failed to properly notify the public that it was considering approval of the spring bear hunt" according to https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2021/jan/05/field-reports-lawsuit-filed-to-challenge-spring-be/
• 1:47:40 Eric Lagally, King County, "volunteers for several wildlife and environmental non-profits in the Puget Sound Region"
• 1:52:15 Gabrielle Gilbert, Klickitat County
• 1:57:06 Adrienne Dorf, King County, found on Sierra Club "Wildlife Committee" https://www.sierraclub.org/washington/blog/2019/11/striking-balance-proposed-conservation-plan-for-washingtons-wolves
• 2:00:30 Mark Elbroch, Director of the Cougar Program for Panthera, Co-Lead on WA Olympic Cougar Project. Author of The Cougar Conundrum: Sharing the World with a Successful Predator

The list of people who spoke against the petition to change cougar and bear seasons (I think they all introduced themselves as hunters):

• 1:15:40 Will Christison, Arizona, Member of Conservation Coalition of Washington
• 1:18:50 Dane Czarnecki, BHA
• 1:20:40 Mike Herz
• 1:22:50 Ryan Garrett
• 1:30:00 Douglas Boze, President of the American Bear Foundation
• 1:32:40 Jon Dykes
• 1:35:15 Kelsey Ross
• 1:41:00 James Boze
• 1:49:30 Jeff Holbrook
• 1:54:40 Sam Oliver
• 1:58:30 Carl Barner

[blackdog]

This is not over!

[Bullkllr]

I have a big problem believing that speaker list was organically generated.

[Tbar]

I have a big problem believing that speaker list was organically generated.

Not a chance..

[Tbar]

Ragen is now vice as well.

[cem3434]

I think a lot of guys aim is going to get worse when hunting bears and cougars. If the bear or cat doesn't drop where its standing, a lot of hunters are going to chalk it up to a clean miss and look for another one to shoot.