WFWD Report on Courgars and Bears

[starkeybomb]

Commissioner: Can you definitively say we are not over-harvesting cougars? I have not heard a clear response to that

Biologist: Yes, we can definitively say we are not, including depredation

Commissioner: Let me change my question...

 

Biologists are having to re-answer questions over and over.  Tim Ragen has never met a pro-hunting answer he likes.  This guy is smart, but his area of expertise in no way relates to predator management.

They are about to talk about bears if you can tune in. 

[starkeybomb]

to be clear, Parker asked the question about over-hunting.

Ragen immediately retorts that the biologist cannot definitively answer the question as he sees things...

[Rainier10]

When is the break supposed to end?

[starkeybomb]

10:40.  presentation has just started.

[Stein]

Commissioner: Can you definitively say we are not over-harvesting cougars? I have not heard a clear response to that

Biologist: Yes, we can definitively say we are not, including depredation

Commissioner: Let me change my question...

 

Biologists are having to re-answer questions over and over.  Tim Ragen has never met a pro-hunting answer he likes.  This guy is smart, but his area of expertise in no way relates to predator management.

They are about to talk about bears if you can tune in.

Don't worry, they'll follow the science right over to another biologist paid by the anti-hunting crowd.

[Mtnwalker]

Hopefully somebody is recording all of these for future documentation

[Firstgenhunter]

Hopefully somebody is recording all of these for future documentation

We are and will have content out soon!

[Special T]

Since its on TVW and Zoom I'm sure a link will be available as are most presentations.

[Firstgenhunter]

These are some takeways we have. We cant push the narrative that "predators are the bad guys" anymore. We are harvesting them at sustainable levels and doing so for food should be the narrative. Soon as other topics like hunting vs conflict enter the discussion the waters become muddied quite quickly to say we don't have the science to meet management objectives. 25% tooth submission rates for bears and 47% non reporting at all. This makes us look bad and we all need to do better.

[idahohuntr]

Some of these (ignorant) commissioners continue to try and make a case that if we don't have perfect information on bear numbers it's possible the populations are actually decreasing...clearly trying to make a case that the sky could be falling and we might not know.  The WDFW staff point to their various metrics and nothing concerning jumps out re: declines. Yet, we have extremely clear data on whats going on with Blue Mountains elk...and the contribution of predators...the hypocrisy, while not at all surprising, is absurd.     

[Special T]

Some of these (ignorant) commissioners continue to try and make a case that if we don't have perfect information on bear numbers it's possible the populations are actually decreasing...clearly trying to make a case that the sky could be falling and we might not know.  The WDFW staff point to their various metrics and nothing concerning jumps out re: declines. Yet, we have extremely clear data on whats going on with Blue Mountains elk...and the contribution of predators...the hypocrisy, while not at all surprising, is absurd.   

 
And yet we know that deer and elk numbers AREdecreasing and in the case of the blues we know it's cougars killing Calfs.

[Special T]

Every time baker asks a question should pay attention. Her questions at about 1155 are very interesting.

Why an increase in Westside bears?
Fuel, 2 bear limit. More people hunting the West side generally and much of the take is incidental to normal hunt seasons...

Except for folks like Drock that don't buy a second tag in bow season and has them was so close he could stab them with the arrow!

 

[GOcougsHunter]

so.. the synopsis of this meeting is that because hunters are theoretically under reporting, the commission cannot make a decision?  I am significantly more confused now than I was at the beginning.  The circular logic behind this is mind numbing.

It would be beneficial, albeit would never happen, to actually describe to the commission "a day in the life of a WA hunter"  Bear harvest and bear hunting in WA State is worlds different than other states where traditional bait/hounds are used.  I carry a tag in my pocket for the off chance I come across a harvest opportunity.  While others are actively pursuing while trying to not run afoul of methods of hunting which could be construed as illegal.  There is no bombproof model applicable to Washington State bear hunting.

[hunter399]

Some of these (ignorant) commissioners continue to try and make a case that if we don't have perfect information on bear numbers it's possible the populations are actually decreasing...clearly trying to make a case that the sky could be falling and we might not know.  The WDFW staff point to their various metrics and nothing concerning jumps out re: declines. Yet, we have extremely clear data on whats going on with Blue Mountains elk...and the contribution of predators...the hypocrisy, while not at all surprising, is absurd.   

 
And yet we know that deer and elk numbers AREdecreasing and in the case of the blues we know it's cougars killing Calfs.

Ya there just not smart enough to put two and two together.
It's pretty much a trend that's happening statewide.
Only difference is blues Mt .is a fact it's happening.
They should be taking the research from the blue Mt. And applying that concept statewide.
If it's happening there,most likely everywhere else too.

[Stein]

Some of these (ignorant) commissioners continue to try and make a case that if we don't have perfect information on bear numbers it's possible the populations are actually decreasing...clearly trying to make a case that the sky could be falling and we might not know.  The WDFW staff point to their various metrics and nothing concerning jumps out re: declines. Yet, we have extremely clear data on whats going on with Blue Mountains elk...and the contribution of predators...the hypocrisy, while not at all surprising, is absurd.   

I don't think ignorance is at play.  They need a reason to doubt and ignore WDFW biologists in favor of either a conservative stance or to open the door to varying opinions from alternate sources.

They ask WDFW something, WDFW goes back and collects/fixes/adjusts, comes back and the goalpost moves.

Regarding elk, they simply don't care.  There are no "save the elk" progressive groups as they are not cute.  Sad but true.