WFWD Report on Courgars and Bears

[actionshooter]

Honest question.

How much of the commission accepting the petition is about avoiding litigation from WWF?

Some of the commissioners are working directly with the anti's... this is a plan being executed.

[Katmai Guy]

Any chance to Get Jesse or Suzanna Frame to get it on the TV in front of more non hunters, not antis?  Just wonder'n.

[hughjorgan]

I wouldn’t be surprised if we have a cougar hunting ban initiative with in the next year. Here is the link to the letter by the supposedly 50 “expert” carnivore biologists; one of which was Fred Koontz. 

https://wawildlifefirst.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Statement-of-50-Carnivore-Ecologists-re-Cougar-and-Bear-Science-1.pdf

”Cougars DO NOT require hunting to regulate their populations” 

[Slamadoo]

I'm aware that some of the commissioners are working in unison with the anti-hunting groups. But this last vote was 7-2. Are 7 of them working with the antis or are some of those 7 operating out of an effort to avoid litigation?

If the commission declines that petition. They probably get sued.

[Skyvalhunter]

The WDFW has already been in a exercise to study the Cougar/bear issue. The commission didnt agree to roll back to 2018 regulations for these predators. They merely said yes to the petition in part so that the WDFW could continue their exercise. to say what changes if any will be made to the seasons has yet to be determined and voted upon.

[harveymarv]

my understanding is that the next step is a cr102 for rule making based on the approved petition with opportunity for public comment?

The WDFW has already been in a exercise to study the Cougar/bear issue. The commission didnt agree to roll back to 2018 regulations for these predators. They merely said yes to the petition in part so that the WDFW could continue their exercise. to say what changes if any will be made to the seasons has yet to be determined and voted upon.

[Skyvalhunter]

If you listened to the meeting the commissioners said a roll back to 2018 was not approved.

[fireweed]

There is a huge new cougar study in the works on the Olympic Peninsula.  It is spearheaded by the tribes and a non-profit big cat focused group called Panthera.  Because the tribes want to hunt elk and deer, too, their information in the end may be more balanced.  They are following 40 or so collared cougars all around, even one crossed I-5. Then they are collecting cougar poop for DNA to see who they are and what they eat.  The highest mortality of the collared cougars so far isn't hunting, but depredation (cougar killed for eating llamas, chickens, goats etc). The good news is that young cougars like to eat opossums.

[hughjorgan]

If you listened to the meeting the commissioners said a roll back to 2018 was not approved.

And you believe them? The antis end goal is clear as day in their letter and we have commissioners that are on their side…

[Skyvalhunter]

There is a huge new cougar study in the works on the Olympic Peninsula.  It is spearheaded by the tribes and a non-profit big cat focused group called Panthera.  Because the tribes want to hunt elk and deer, too, their information in the end may be more balanced.  They are following 40 or so collared cougars all around, even one crossed I-5. Then they are collecting cougar poop for DNA to see who they are and what they eat.  The highest mortality of the collared cougars so far isn't hunting, but depredation (cougar killed for eating llamas, chickens, goats etc). The good news is that young cougars like to eat opossums.

A part of that which is concerning is if there is a depredation killing (I have heard some pretty large numbers thrown out there) done by WDFW that petition wants those numbers to be counted in the GMU quota. Weather or not that is agreed upon might be a bit concerning.

[ducks4days]

There is a huge new cougar study in the works on the Olympic Peninsula.  It is spearheaded by the tribes and a non-profit big cat focused group called Panthera.  Because the tribes want to hunt elk and deer, too, their information in the end may be more balanced.  They are following 40 or so collared cougars all around, even one crossed I-5. Then they are collecting cougar poop for DNA to see who they are and what they eat.  The highest mortality of the collared cougars so far isn't hunting, but depredation (cougar killed for eating llamas, chickens, goats etc). The good news is that young cougars like to eat opossums.

A part of that which is concerning is if there is a depredation killing (I have heard some pretty large numbers thrown out there) done by WDFW that petition wants those numbers to be counted in the GMU quota. Weather or not that is agreed upon might be a bit concerning.

If there is a depradation killing, it is direct evidence that the quota should be increased

[fireweed]

There is a huge new cougar study in the works on the Olympic Peninsula.  It is spearheaded by the tribes and a non-profit big cat focused group called Panthera.  Because the tribes want to hunt elk and deer, too, their information in the end may be more balanced.  They are following 40 or so collared cougars all around, even one crossed I-5. Then they are collecting cougar poop for DNA to see who they are and what they eat.  The highest mortality of the collared cougars so far isn't hunting, but depredation (cougar killed for eating llamas, chickens, goats etc). The good news is that young cougars like to eat opossums.

A part of that which is concerning is if there is a depredation killing (I have heard some pretty large numbers thrown out there) done by WDFW that petition wants those numbers to be counted in the GMU quota. Weather or not that is agreed upon might be a bit concerning.

If there is a depradation killing, it is direct evidence that the quota should be increased

If you read that letter link, they argue the opposite--saying more depredation is due to killing cougars and if you don't kill them, the depredation goes down.  And they are "scientists", so it must be true! Their logic is this: you kill the big tom in the area, and all the young dispersing toms move in and they eat the livestock.  Therefore if you don't kill the big old tom, the little ones stay away from his territory and keep them from killing livestock.  But, they never say where the dispersing young cats go then....Do they just starve? Let themselves be killed by the big tom?  Also, on the cougar project in the Olympics, one of their star old big mature tom was shot for killing a llama.  Ooops.

[hunter399]

There is a huge new cougar study in the works on the Olympic Peninsula.  It is spearheaded by the tribes and a non-profit big cat focused group called Panthera.  Because the tribes want to hunt elk and deer, too, their information in the end may be more balanced.  They are following 40 or so collared cougars all around, even one crossed I-5. Then they are collecting cougar poop for DNA to see who they are and what they eat.  The highest mortality of the collared cougars so far isn't hunting, but depredation (cougar killed for eating llamas, chickens, goats etc). The good news is that young cougars like to eat opossums.

A part of that which is concerning is if there is a depredation killing (I have heard some pretty large numbers thrown out there) done by WDFW that petition wants those numbers to be counted in the GMU quota. Weather or not that is agreed upon might be a bit concerning.

If there is a depradation killing, it is direct evidence that the quota should be increased

Not sure if it may help.
I've been looking at Idaho's cougar management plan and studys.
One problem is ,they are able to target males,with hounds.
There plan also shows harvest rates and some other good information. Idaho statewide harvest is 500 -700 cougars a year.

Any study's or research that can support us. That cougars do need to be managed is worth a shot.

https://idfg.idaho.gov/form/mountain-lion-management-plan


Might be able to find some good info in, Montana or Oregon cougar management plans as well. Another plus to looking at other states management plan is , climate change and other stuff is about the same. Washington climate change is no different then Idaho or Oregon. So you can't pull the climate change card.

If you ask me. I would look at harvest rates for similar states.
Compare to Washington.
Here is 2022 cougar harvest. Looks to be only half of Idaho's harvest. Yet all there research says they still have a sustainable population. See where I'm going with it.

[slavenoid]

Just look at California, they're still killing cougars. These same groups are continuing the fight to end all cougar deaths. They just collect more money and shift the target. According to their websites now the targets are roads and depredation permits. We're supposed to believe they're just concerned about bag limits. Right...

[ducks4days]

Just look at California, they're still killing cougars. These same groups are continuing the fight to end all cougar deaths. They just collect more money and shift the target. According to their websites now the targets are roads and depredation permits. We're supposed to believe they're just concerned about bag limits. Right...

California is actually killing twice as many cougars now as they were before the hunting ban went into effect.