Planning a tiny home cabin, looking for input

[PsoasHunter]

We bought some undeveloped property last summer on a river on the Olympic Penninsula, in Grays Harbor County.  The 10 year plan is to get power, a well, and a cabin built on septic. 

In the short term, we've enjoyed camping, but I would like a more permanent structure for the next few years until we build, as it would be more comfortable staying out there with our young kids (3 and 10 months old) in the winter months.  I'm thinking of building a 10x20 foot shed-style building that we can camp out of in the short term, and use as a storage building down the road.  The building will not be plumbed.

For the framers out there, I'm thinking of full 8' studs for an 8'4.5" back wall, w/ an additional 4' 3" wall on the front, single-sloped roof, and putting a loft in the far end about 6'6" off the ground. This should give a loft height of about 5'6" or so at it's highest point. I'm not drywalling the interior, so I'm not worried about the walls being taller than 8'. The whole thing will sit on 4x8 beams I already have on pierblocks.

I'm curious on input on windows, airflow, water-proofing, heating options, conveniences found in small spaces for space utilization, ect.

So for those of you with small cabin experience, what do you like and dislike?  What would you do differently?

[bearpaw]

When we were young my wife and I bought and lived in a small 8x40 old trailer home for a couple years to get ahead until we could afford something better. We put in a small wood stove that handled the job very well and we saved on not using the electric heating much. I had thought about doing an addon but opted to save the funds for a better home, afterward I'm glad we saved the funds for the better home, but that cheap little trailer sure helped us get ahead.

Some friends of ours built a shop that they lived in until they could afford to build the log home they really wanted, they also used wood heat to save on expenses while saving for the new home, they stayed in the "shouse for about 20 years or a little more. About 10 years ago they built their dream log home and converted the original "shouse" to being a shop.

Here's a thought: If I was going to build a temporary shed home, I think I would use 16' studs on the front so you have good ceiling height in the upper floor and maybe 14' studs on the back side, then put beds along the lower wall. Depending on how wide the shed will be and if you will get snow in that area, you might want a little more pitch for snow to slide off so a little shorter studs might be needed on the back wall.

Right now lumber is cheap again, it's a good time to frame a building. Someday when you get your permanent home built, you could even add another side to the shed and have a good sized shop for storage, maybe even a car garage if you build the first half wide enough.

Good luck however you decide to do it.

[Cougartail]

When you frame small cabins ALWAYS frame in doors on numerous sides that you just cover until needed. Stay on layout with studs through the doorways. If needed they can be easily be knocked out.

It makes expansion so much easier having the door already in place. Plans change and your cabin should be built for changes.

My biggest regret on my first cabin build.

[baldopepper]

We built a 12x20.cabin on our place and used it for several years until we put in a permanent home. Went ahead and plumbed and wired it simply because it was easier to do while building it. Kind of set it up like the wiring and plumbing in a travel trailer so we could use a generator for power and a 40 gal water tank for water. Put a small bathroom in and used a portable toilet in there and set up made the wife much more willing to stay for a while. I would suggest you get a septic system as soon as possible as some counties are getting very restrictive on them.  You have to think ahead on what the county might be doing on building restrictions if you plan to eventually build a permanent structure. We were able to get things done 10 years ago.that would be much more restrictive now.

[trophyhunt]

First thing I thought of for heat, those diesel heaters, sounds perfect for a 10x20 room. 

[actionshooter]

 This is our off grid 12x20... we have propane heat and didn't put a wood stove in because of the lack of space... On the coast, I would probably go for a small wood stove because of the added moisture.... make sure to insulate the floors along with everything else, its made a huge difference. Screen the bottom of the floor joist... (damn chipmunks)

 Build it as tight as you can and fill every void with the Rodent Spray Foam, screen the gable vents... we have been very lucky and only get flys coming in through the vinyl windows, other than that... no pests to speak of.

 Building a garage to live in, then converting later is a good idea, just didn't work for us at the time or we would have done that.

 After getting this set up, pitching a tent has gotten kind of tough. 

[PsoasHunter]

Really good input and ideas so far, thank you!

To clarify, this is planned to be a hunting and vacation property, we don't plan on moving out there anytime in the next 30 years. Plans for a future build would be a bigger hunting cabin to sleep family. This smaller building is just to get us a place to sleep for clam digs in the winter and hunting and fishing trips in the fall. It needs to be cheaper and simpler to put up.

[brew]

Ever think about 40' conex shipping containers ?  No permits required and waterproof.  Check out eveoncontainers.com.  looks to be about 3k for one delivered to Gray's harbor area

[birdshooter1189]

I built a 12x16' well shed with a large storage loft similar to what you are describing.  Mine is sitting on pressure treated lumber on the dirt.  My biggest regret with that shed is that I didn't pour a concrete floor.  If I seal off the foundation to retain ground heat I struggle with moisture rotting out my floor.  If I open up the foundation so that it can breath, I worry about it getting too cold and freezing my pipes. 

In my opinion, I'd prefer even a dry-pour floor with bags of quickcrete instead of the lumber-only foundation/floor that I built.

[92xj]

If you put one of these on a gravel base, what size gravel would you use?   Could rodents move that gravel to get under?    Stapled 1/4” hardware cloth around the entire bottom perimeter, then cover the cloth with a few inches of gravel.   Thoughts?

[LDennis24]

Go with a connex container, it will far outlast a wooden shed and is pretty much rodent proof for storage as well

[2MANY]

This thread is a great advertisement for building permits and codes.

Unfortunatly.

[PsoasHunter]

This thread is a great advertisement for building permits and codes.

Unfortunatly.

Not quite sure what you mean, do you mind clarifying? I intend to permit anything legally requiring a permit, if that's what you're getting at. 

[PsoasHunter]

For the shipping containers, anyone ever add windows? I don't think I could sleep in an enclosed metal box, let alone convince my wife too. Seems uncomfortable on many Leventhal, but don't know if I'm just being paranoid.

[PsoasHunter]

Good input on foundation types. I'm thinking beams on pier blocks. I'm not too worried about floor insulation as it's near the coast so never too cold, and a small woodstove will probably over heat the space. I like the tips on rodent preventing, Iwasn't t thinking of that. Thank you.

[LDennis24]

Adding a window would be very simple if you can weld or find a welder. You can even weld bars on the window to prevent theft and bear damage etc.

[brew]

For the shipping containers, anyone ever add windows? I don't think I could sleep in an enclosed metal box, let alone convince my wife too. Seems uncomfortable on many Leventhal, but don't know if I'm just being paranoid.

YouTube is a great source of info. 

[rainshadow1]

This thread is a great advertisement for building permits and codes.

Unfortunatly.

Not quite sure what you mean, do you mind clarifying? I intend to permit anything legally requiring a permit, if that's what you're getting at. 

Probably the other direction than what was being hinted at, but I know from limited experience that you're not going to get very far in any county in washington state once you plan to spend the night in it. This isn't really a free country. (It's free as long as you do everything the way they want, don't do anything they haven't thought of yet, and pay their fees.)

[JimmyHoffa]

Yeah, even most of the building inspectors can't keep up with all the constant additions to the codes. If the structure is 'permanent', it can be a real tough time before you even buy a piece of lumber. All the input for rainwater, set backs, wetlands, snow, fire, energy, etc. If it's on wheels or skids you can bypass a few things.

[buckfvr]

Condensation is a huge issue with containers.

[Special T]

Matt Reisinger the bild show on you tube. He has lots of great details on how to build to last. More expensive materials and products but make less of a difference with longevity and smaller scale structures. I think lots of the details he goes over can make an off grid cabin 100% more useful.

Air sealing for heat and bugs. Run 2 circuits for power. 110 and 12 volt. So much can be runs off a small generator, small wind or solar 12 volt. I run my cabin call 12 volt led lights usb plug ins small soloar panel. I would bet that a small wood stove would work well. My brother got a wall tent stove he added firbricks to and now heats his 600 square foot shop apartment with it.
Metal roof with a rain catchment barrel and a covered outside area expand the usefulness of an outdoor retreat.  Many counties have some kind of a footprint restriction for summer home cabins. Skagit county had a 20x20 limitation with a loft. If it were me I would go as big as legally allowed and build a big covered porch next to the cabin for grilling, fires and enjoying the outside until your too cold and have to go in.

[Machias]

Look up Tin Can Cabin.  The guy detailed his three shipping container cabin build.  Here is two major considerations with Shipping Containers.  The biggest is the floor HAS TO BE encapsulated.  The floors are impregnated with some seriously nasty chemicals that continue to off gas forever.  Serious health hazard if you are sleeping in one or spending any time inside.  Number two, unless you spray foam insulate the walls, you WILL BE dealing with mold very soon.  Even if you were to put in wall studs and insulate, even the tiniest space between the insulation and the steel container wall will sweat, condense and mold will develop.

I lived in an 16x24 foot Old Hickory Shed for 4 and a half years.  No electricity or running water for most of that time.  Spray foam insulate, cost a bit more, but you will never regret it.  Insulate the floor.  I can share a story sometime about NOT insulating the floor and having to deal with mold on everything that was a couple of inches off the floor.  Cold air from the floor rising up and meeting the warm air in the cabin, causes condensation on the underside of the dressers, etc,, and walla mold issue.  Propane heat puts extra moisture in the air, which equals....you guessed it, mold.  Check out 509 Wood stoves (Flame Innovation) in Post Falls, ID.  Best thing since sliced bread for heating your cabin.  Easy to regulate the heat and last all night.  Uses compressed logs.  Buy it by the pallet and it's 65 cents a log.  Wood stove puts out dry heat, much better for the cabin space than propane.

[Boss .300 winmag]

Look up Tin Can Cabin.  The guy detailed his three shipping container cabin build.  Here is two major considerations with Shipping Containers.  The biggest is the floor HAS TO BE encapsulated.  The floors are impregnated with some seriously nasty chemicals that continue to off gas forever.  Serious health hazard if you are sleeping in one or spending any time inside.  Number two, unless you spray foam insulate the walls, you WILL BE dealing with mold very soon.  Even if you were to put in wall studs and insulate, even the tiniest space between the insulation and the steel container wall will sweat, condense and mold will develop.

I lived in an 16x24 foot Old Hickory Shed for 4 and a half years.  No electricity or running water for most of that time.  Spray foam insulate, cost a bit more, but you will never regret it.  Insulate the floor.  I can share a story sometime about NOT insulating the floor and having to deal with mold on everything that was a couple of inches off the floor.  Cold air from the floor rising up and meeting the warm air in the cabin, causes condensation on the underside of the dressers, etc,, and walla mold issue.  Propane heat puts extra moisture in the air, which equals....you guessed it, mold.  Check out 509 Wood stoves (Flame Innovation) in Post Falls, ID.  Best thing since sliced bread for heating your cabin.  Easy to regulate the heat and last all night.  Uses compressed logs.  Buy it by the pallet and it's 65 cents a log.  Wood stove puts out dry heat, much better for the cabin space than propane.

Could you frame out the floor with 2x4s, spat foam it then sheet with plywood for encapsulating it?

[Machias]

Look up Tin Can Cabin.  The guy detailed his three shipping container cabin build.  Here is two major considerations with Shipping Containers.  The biggest is the floor HAS TO BE encapsulated.  The floors are impregnated with some seriously nasty chemicals that continue to off gas forever.  Serious health hazard if you are sleeping in one or spending any time inside.  Number two, unless you spray foam insulate the walls, you WILL BE dealing with mold very soon.  Even if you were to put in wall studs and insulate, even the tiniest space between the insulation and the steel container wall will sweat, condense and mold will develop.

I lived in an 16x24 foot Old Hickory Shed for 4 and a half years.  No electricity or running water for most of that time.  Spray foam insulate, cost a bit more, but you will never regret it.  Insulate the floor.  I can share a story sometime about NOT insulating the floor and having to deal with mold on everything that was a couple of inches off the floor.  Cold air from the floor rising up and meeting the warm air in the cabin, causes condensation on the underside of the dressers, etc,, and walla mold issue.  Propane heat puts extra moisture in the air, which equals....you guessed it, mold.  Check out 509 Wood stoves (Flame Innovation) in Post Falls, ID.  Best thing since sliced bread for heating your cabin.  Easy to regulate the heat and last all night.  Uses compressed logs.  Buy it by the pallet and it's 65 cents a log.  Wood stove puts out dry heat, much better for the cabin space than propane.

Could you frame out the floor with 2x4s, spat foam it then sheet with plywood for encapsulating it?

Most use epoxy or remove the floor and replace it.  Here is a good site for ideas.  https://www.discovercontainers.com/should-you-remove-the-plywood-floors-in-your-shipping-containers/

[brokenvet]

For heating you can use the traditional wood stove or go rocket mass heater that you can build yourself. 

[erk444]

This thread is a great advertisement for building permits and codes.

Unfortunatly.

Not quite sure what you mean, do you mind clarifying? I intend to permit anything legally requiring a permit, if that's what you're getting at. 

Probably the other direction than what was being hinted at, but I know from limited experience that you're not going to get very far in any county in washington state once you plan to spend the night in it. This isn't really a free country. (It's free as long as you do everything the way they want, don't do anything they haven't thought of yet, and pay their fees.)

Unfortunately this is the truth! This is a 12x16 I built and put a wood stove in. Even though it's on a tiny island in pierce county, I've been turned in to the county twice now for staying in it overnight and heating it. They're technically only supposed to be used for storage only and unheated. I can haul all the junk I want and let it rot on my property but this is against the rules  After multiple calls and emails to the county, the only way I can legally use it as a cabin is if I have running water and sanitation.

[CP]

This thread is a great advertisement for building permits and codes.

Unfortunatly.

Not quite sure what you mean, do you mind clarifying? I intend to permit anything legally requiring a permit, if that's what you're getting at. 

Probably the other direction than what was being hinted at, but I know from limited experience that you're not going to get very far in any county in washington state once you plan to spend the night in it. This isn't really a free country. (It's free as long as you do everything the way they want, don't do anything they haven't thought of yet, and pay their fees.)

Unfortunately this is the truth! This is a 12x16 I built and put a wood stove in. Even though it's on a tiny island in pierce county, I've been turned in to the county twice now for staying in it overnight and heating it. They're technically only supposed to be used for storage only and unheated. I can haul all the junk I want and let it rot on my property but this is against the rules  After multiple calls and emails to the county, the only way I can legally use it as a cabin is if I have running water and sanitation.

Throw a blue tarp over it and cover the walls with cardboard and road signs.  Then no one will bother you.

[Alchase]

I know four people that built tiny homes and moved them onto property. one had two young kids. Sold everything they thought they did not need. These houses Ranged from totally luxxed out to minimalist. All four moved back into regular homes within a year of moving in. All four said they were overwhelmed within a few days of moving in, with no room to move around.
I asked one what they would recommend to others who are considering moving into a tiny home.
He said, have each person get rid of all their stuff, to where "everything they own" fits in a plastic storage bin. Then move into a studio apartment with the same square footage of the tiny home they are considering, and live there for a year. This will help you realize the reality before you make a sizable investment. I asked him if he made his money back when he sold it. He said, every customization you make is your own, and may not correlate to what anyone else would want in a house that small. He lost a ton of value on the sale because they house did not really ad value to the land, and the market for resale of tiny homes is a pretty fringe market.