1x scopes vs open sights

[huntnnw]

I am also with the Dr's note if you have a eye sight issue and being able to use a 1x just like archery and a note if you cannot pull a bow anymore.

[Ghost Hunter]

I am also with the Dr's note if you have a eye sight issue and being able to use a 1x just like archery and a note if you cannot pull a bow anymore.

It is not quite as simple as the Dr.'s note everyone refers too.  It is more complicated than it needs to be.  Multiple disability forms are required to be filled out by applicant and Drs.  I contacted every clinic in two counties.  None did the specific test required for my situation.  Dr. didn't even know the test referenced in one application form.  WDFW staff were very helpful, but it took me over a year to get thru the process. 

They could and probably should simplify and/or update the disability application process.   Maybe the 65 and over is WDFW's solution.   

[buckfvr]

Seems like its the "I want to be accommodated" syndrome.  I cant see good enough anymore and my shoulder hurts, so change things to accommodate me.  Participation trophy all the way.

I cant do it anymore so change the rules so I can.

  

[duckmen1]

Seems like its the "I want to be accommodated" syndrome.  I cant see good enough anymore and my shoulder hurts, so change things to accommodate me.  Participation trophy all the way.

I cant do it anymore so change the rules so I can.

 

All seem to keep avoiding the question. What harm comes from passing the 1x scope law. Aren't individuals looking at 1x with open sights? Heck I could put a globe crossair sight on my peep. And that is more less a one power scope.

I am just blown away at the division in the subject of a few users against the rule. Their comments in regards. When there is not a clear reason to a negative toward. If it is said it won't bring a big difference to overall harvest, may help some individuals continue in the sport or bring interest to muzzleloading, maybe take a minimal amount of pressure off the deadly modern slaughter group, which may actually put a little less effectiveness in success rates by choosing a lesser weapon, etc. Over the years personally I have done modern, archery and muzzleloader. I have never accepted a participation trophy. And never went after a wdfw/doctors note which is an extremely hard proccess for those that don't understand. I continue to push and see success within my abilities. And don't try to hold others back. I don't see a negative toward this rule. It will have a minimal impact. And I guess I am one that don't feel like its all about me or being an intitled one. S..t on other user groups as long as it comes to my weapon choice continues to see increase in effectiveness with new technology? Lets just bring up modern for a second. Simply range an animal and your scope dials for you. Sig!!! Technology. Makes it more effective don't it. Maybe we should put a cap on modern technologies during modern seasons! Oh no we can't do that because its all about me!!! Sweet sixteen South Park reference.


I also never wish injuries on anyone. But for those that have gone through injuries I am sure this comment is a bit of an insult toward them and what they have gone through. A lack of compassion toward other sportsman and a little disrespectful. Someday one may understand. Hope they don't have too. Good luck out there and may all users within all abilities enjoy the outdoors.

Keep division and get no where. Stick together and maybe we as outdoorsman may get somewhere.

[boneaddict]

All seem to keep avoiding the question. What harm comes from passing the 1x scope law

ITs a line the sand, somewhere at some point there has to be a line between primitive and traditional versus technology.   That's the point.  You can be stubborn about it, or maybe your line in the sand is different.  That is what the issue is.

At some point, you will be down to a three day season etc.   Its a numbers game.   

There really isn't much primitive about todays muzzelloader.   

Everyone has an anecdotal story.  Mine is an 80 year old man with his homemade front stuffer out in the rain chasing bulls.  That's tradition as I see it.   Maybe we draw the line at heat seeking sabots?  Don't know.     

[Pathfinder101]

All seem to keep avoiding the question. What harm comes from passing the 1x scope law

ITs a line the sand, somewhere at some point there has to be a line between primitive and traditional versus technology.   That's the point.  You can be stubborn about it, or maybe your line in the sand is different.  That is what the issue is.

At some point, you will be down to a three day season etc.   Its a numbers game.   

There really isn't much primitive about todays muzzelloader.   

Everyone has an anecdotal story.  Mine is an 80 year old man with his homemade front stuffer out in the rain chasing bulls.  That's tradition as I see it.   Maybe we draw the line at heat seeking sabots?  Don't know.     

Wait.  My sabots aren't heat-seeking? 
Why am I paying so much for them now?

[duckmen1]

All seem to keep avoiding the question. What harm comes from passing the 1x scope law

ITs a line the sand, somewhere at some point there has to be a line between primitive and traditional versus technology.   That's the point.  You can be stubborn about it, or maybe your line in the sand is different.  That is what the issue is.

At some point, you will be down to a three day season etc.   Its a numbers game.   

There really isn't much primitive about todays muzzelloader.   

Everyone has an anecdotal story.  Mine is an 80 year old man with his homemade front stuffer out in the rain chasing bulls.  That's tradition as I see it.   Maybe we draw the line at heat seeking sabots?  Don't know.     

I am still am trying to figure out how 1x scope is such a fear factor to put in a muzzleloader season for you guys. You all in favor on here a few years back on 209s and closed breach plugs. Which I didn't use and still don't. Makes so much more reliable gun. Archery was supposed to be primative. Yet we now have expandable broadheads which make tuning factors less of an issue. Lighted knocks which make recovery of arrows and such for recovery of game easier. Modern rifles have range finding capabilities to transer to scope on sig products. Yet the fear of our game population lies on a dot on a lense instead of a dot on the tip of the gun. Not like I am saying add a 24 power scope to a muzzleloader. But everyone seems to act like that is what I am saying. Are you all feeling that everyone will be successful because looking down a 1x scope vs 1 power open site?

I still think you as well as others are fighting each other as sportsman and not building what we are loosing as sportsman. One day you say we need to band together. The next you put a hunter down for harvesting a lesser quality animal in your eyes as an outdoorsman.

More less my argument on this topic is becoming less and less about whether we should allow 1x scopes and more and more about how we are fighting each other.

[bustedoldman]

Anyone watch the meeting today?

[bobcat]

Doesn't seem like anyone is fighting with anyone else over this. The WDFW will do what they want anyway. Doesn't matter what we think.

[Ghost Hunter]

Anyone watch the meeting today?

Couldn't find it.

[Brushbuster]

Anyone watch the meeting today?

Couldn't find it.

I watched the meeting. The commission listened to the proposals from the Dept but didn't provide feedback on their decision. The Dept received 78 comments before the meeting and provided a general summary of the responses. Only one person called in to comment & he was against any changes to muzzy regs.

[bustedoldman]

Anyone watch the meeting today?

Couldn't find it.

I watched the meeting. The commission listened to the proposals from the Dept but didn't provide feedback on their decision. The Dept received 78 comments before the meeting and provided a general summary of the responses. Only one person called in to comment & he was against any changes to muzzy regs.

What was the general consensus of the 78 comments?

[huntnnw]

All seem to keep avoiding the question. What harm comes from passing the 1x scope law

ITs a line the sand, somewhere at some point there has to be a line between primitive and traditional versus technology.   That's the point.  You can be stubborn about it, or maybe your line in the sand is different.  That is what the issue is.

At some point, you will be down to a three day season etc.   Its a numbers game.   

There really isn't much primitive about todays muzzelloader.   

Everyone has an anecdotal story.  Mine is an 80 year old man with his homemade front stuffer out in the rain chasing bulls.  That's tradition as I see it.   Maybe we draw the line at heat seeking sabots?  Don't know.     

I am still am trying to figure out how 1x scope is such a fear factor to put in a muzzleloader season for you guys. You all in favor on here a few years back on 209s and closed breach plugs. Which I didn't use and still don't. Makes so much more reliable gun. Archery was supposed to be primative. Yet we now have expandable broadheads which make tuning factors less of an issue. Lighted knocks which make recovery of arrows and such for recovery of game easier. Modern rifles have range finding capabilities to transer to scope on sig products. Yet the fear of our game population lies on a dot on a lense instead of a dot on the tip of the gun. Not like I am saying add a 24 power scope to a muzzleloader. But everyone seems to act like that is what I am saying. Are you all feeling that everyone will be successful because looking down a 1x scope vs 1 power open site?

I still think you as well as others are fighting each other as sportsman and not building what we are loosing as sportsman. One day you say we need to band together. The next you put a hunter down for harvesting a lesser quality animal in your eyes as an outdoorsman.

More less my argument on this topic is becoming less and less about whether we should allow 1x scopes and more and more about how we are fighting each other.

And with that you obviously haven’t looked through a 1x dot versus open sights.

[Ghost Hunter]

Anyone watch the meeting today?

Couldn't find it.

I watched the meeting. The commission listened to the proposals from the Dept but didn't provide feedback on their decision. The Dept received 78 comments before the meeting and provided a general summary of the responses. Only one person called in to comment & he was against any changes to muzzy regs.

What was the general consensus of the 78 comments?

260 responses.  WAC 220-414-060  Muzzleloading firearms.

The purpose of this proposal is to amend WAC language to allow the use of one-power (aka “1x”) scopes on muzzleloading firearms. Commercial availability of one-power scopes is low outside of the “red dot” scope category. Red dots sights are non-magnifying (i.e., 1x) battery-powered optics that function by concentrating and reflecting a light (typically red) from within the scope housing onto the user’s eye. Red dot scopes do not project any light, laser, or other emission toward the target. Because red dot scopes are battery powered, this proposal also amends WAC language to permit electronic aiming devices on muzzleloading equipment if those devices are red dot or similar electronically powered devices that do not exceed one power magnification. The Department does not anticipate significant impacts to hunter success rates per se, because one power scopes do not magnify the target or enhance the intrinsic capabilities of muzzleloading firearms.

The proposed changes are motivated by requests from the hunting public, especially seniors, because vision impairment can restrict the use of muzzleloading equipment for hunting purposes. One-power scopes provide a clearer sight window without magnifying the target in much the same way eyeglasses correct someone’s vision (i.e., they make the target clearer, not bigger). Hunter participation, retention, and recruitment may benefit by allowing red dot and one-power scopes on muzzleloading equipment, though the use of scopes may be perceived as contrary to the spirit of primitive weapons.

Question title
Do you support this rule change? 220-414-060
You selected:Yes
57%
No
43%
Closed to responses | 260 Responses

[Brushbuster]

Ghost Hunter beat me to it. Great minds think alike! Here is what I got.
•   On the summary screen at the meeting, they only provided a very general breakdown. Here is what I remember: Pro: general comments of support
•   Against: general comments to keep weapons primitive, concern of technology creep, challenge to know if scope is 1x for enforcement, separate muzzy seasons truly primitive vs other.
•   
•   Here is another link to comments they received from a different survey. https://publicinput.com/3yearseasonsetting
•   
•   Look in the tab for "Hunting Equipment and Hunter Orange" Here lists 260 comments they received 57% supporting the change & 43% against. I am unclear why they stated they received 78 comments in the meeting unless there are two surveys.